.com.unity Forums - [German] What do you do with your 50mms ?

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- - [German] What do you do with your 50mms ? (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=43074)

Re: [German] What do you do with your 50mms ?

Hi
I think it would be reasonable and authentic to give the Jap knee mortar British 2 inch and German 50cm mortars an indirect fire bombardment delay of 0 as they have no bipod and so go into action virtually instantaneously. (The german mortar has a quick release on the elevation mechanism allowing it to be aimed quickly manually.)
The ideal employment for these weapons is the cover dead ground around a coy point defensive position. As mentioned in the origional post the delay of 3 precludes them doing this effectively in-game.
The Brixia may also qualify for a lessened delay (perhaps 1) owing to the short ranges involved (The elevating dial seems not to have a quick release mechanism.)
I believe the germans ditched the 50 as it was inaccurate and expensive.
From lone sentry for the 50
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?i...%3Den%26sa%3DG
and the brixia
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?i...%3Den%26sa%3DG

Best regards Chuck.

Re: [German] What do you do with your 50mms ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross (Post 690287)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnHale (Post 690259)

Cross,

Monty himself deprecated the 2in mortar as the most useless piece of kit ever foisted on the British Army! (Wish I could find the quote again...) He said its only use was in firing smoke - which we don't have in the game, alas.

Hi John,

Yes I've heard some of the disdain for the 2 inch. I recall Andy saying that he had a trainer who suggested something like, 'its only use may be to club the enemy'.

However, when it was in trained or skillful hands, I've also heard it could very effective. I heard a claim that it could be accurate to 6 feet at 500 yards! This sounds exagerated, but perhaps its possible - with observed fire - to get pretty close after you've fired a couple of shots to adjust your aim.

The 2 inch could also be fired directly, supposedly, like a grenade launcher.

Here's an interesting excerpt:

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3773/2inchmortar.jpg

cheers,
Cross

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 690288)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross (Post 690194)

I wish these mortars got smoke rounds; which was one of the 2 inchers common functions. Does the US 60mm get smoke? But there may be a game/code reason why not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnHale (Post 690259)

Monty himself deprecated the 2in mortar as the most useless piece of kit ever foisted on the British Army! (Wish I could find the quote again...) He said its only use was in firing smoke - which we don't have in the game, alas.

The squad integrated versions don't have smoke becasue there is no way to assign smoke rounds to a "mortar" in that case but the regular version of the 2in mortar certainly do have smoke rounds. 7 - 9 of them in most cases which averages to 66% of their total ammo load

Don

smoke is not "ammo" in the game - there is no way to mobhack it. It is an attribute that is added to an element by the code, for weapon slot 1, and not the weapon.

The problem with the 2 inch was that it took up 2 men (if the platoon assigned the appropriate crew), for a marginally useful device. The main problem was humping the ammunition (and HE was only rarely issued, it was meant for smoke and illuminating). A dozen or so rounds between the 2 guys would be about all that could reasonably be carried. Sights were just a white line painted on the tube, so anyone skilful with the thing did it through a lot of firing practice! :)

Those 2 men could be used for more useful tasks in the rifle platoons, which were always short of manpower. Sometimes then the platoon sergeant humped it and a very few rounds in his backpack instead.

The PIAT or later the 84mm MAW however, were seen as useful and justifying the manpower assigned to the beasties and their weight, and that of their ammunition.

However, by 1975 our 2 inchers sat and festered in the armoury and were only brought out for the annual recruit training course where a few rounds of smoke and illum were fired to demonstrate it to the newbies. (We had the Shermuly single-shot flare that could be assigned to any grunt by then, and decent smoke grenades ditto.)

Apparently though the new 51mm has had a good response - as it had sights (a simple bubble level) and a useful range - 750 metres or so, plus HE was regularly issued (And that had a pre-fragmented case). And it seems the new 60mm commando mortar is popular as well.

The 2 inch in UK platoon HQs was really only added for those players that think it was some sort of "super duper giant grenade launcher". It was not - it was a smoke and flare thrower that many units simply left in the rear line transport and only brought forwards for the formal assaults. HE ammo for it was like hen's teeth.

Cheers
Andy

Re: [German] What do you do with your 50mms ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 690288)

Don,

Thank you very much for this info. I was not aware I could buy the 2 inch mortar as a seperate unit. I vaguely recall seeing it in the past, but I think I dismissed it, assuming it would have no smoke ammo.

The details you guys have been able to work into this game continues to astound me...

I just searched and found it among the MISC units. I can see where perhaps it doesn't really fit the 'Artillery' category, but perhaps it could be in 'Infantry'. But this is a tough one...

Anyway, I can definately see where this light mortar team could be real useful in the right situation, and will be sure to use it in the near future.

cheers,
Cross

Re: [German] What do you do with your 50mms ?

ps. The 2 inch team is 3 men. Any chance of lowering this to a more realistic 2 man team?

cheers,
Cross

Re: [German] What do you do with your 50mms ?

Now corrected in all applicable OOBs along with the overabundance or arms some units in some OOB's had. Some OOB's designers in the past just couldn't resist filling up the four slots

Don

Re: [German] What do you do with your 50mms ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 690326)

Now corrected in all applicable OOBs along with the overabundance or arms some units in some OOB's had. Some OOB's designers in the past just couldn't resist filling up the four slots

Don

yeah, some of the infantry types seem a bit enthusiastic :)

Re: [German] What do you do with your 50mms ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by runequester (Post 690389)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 690326)

Now corrected in all applicable OOBs along with the overabundance or arms some units in some OOB's had. Some OOB's designers in the past just couldn't resist filling up the four slots

Don

yeah, some of the infantry types seem a bit enthusiastic :)

That's because some infantrymen are enthusiastic about latching onto extra kit. Have one Bren gun? Well Bell and van Ness are skilled in its use, so we'll send a creeper to the armoury to nick a second. And grenades, we can always use more grenades.

troopie

Re: [German] What do you do with your 50mms ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by troopie (Post 690462)

Quote:

Originally Posted by runequester (Post 690389)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG (Post 690326)

Now corrected in all applicable OOBs along with the overabundance or arms some units in some OOB's had. Some OOB's designers in the past just couldn't resist filling up the four slots

Don

yeah, some of the infantry types seem a bit enthusiastic :)

Thats true, and I can roll with that.
Where it gets weird for me is having 2 rifle slots.

Re: [German] What do you do with your 50mms ?

Quote:

Where it gets weird for me is having 2 rifle slots.

The guy that is carrying the LMG in slot 2 has a rifle instead, all but slot 1 represent one weapon.

Re: [German] What do you do with your 50mms ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp (Post 690695)

Quote:

Where it gets weird for me is having 2 rifle slots.

The guy that is carrying the LMG in slot 2 has a rifle instead, all but slot 1 represent one weapon.

I mostly see it for "rabble" type of units that get 2 rifle slots, a grenade slot and nothing else.

But even in the above example, the rifle fire already factors in the size of the squad, so having a separate rifle attack for that guy makes no sense. He'd be firing his rifle just the same as any other guy.