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- Dominions 3: The Awakening (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=138)

- - Question about Bless bonuses... (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47068)

Edi	February 20th, 2011 09:23 AM

Re: Question about Bless bonuses...

If the wiki only lists base stats of the units, and it likely does, it would need some way of calculating the protection and other things. Aside from looking in-game, the Dom3 DB is the closest thing, since it uses base tables to calculate how a unit actually looks like, so it is not off by a whole lot even in the case of protection. The other formulas there are exact.

The DB can also be modified to match a mod by making a copy and then switching base table values to match a mod and look at the final result.

Soyweiser

February 20th, 2011 11:13 AM

Re: Question about Bless bonuses...

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejeff (Post 771439)

Yeah, that's a useful solution. Rather than suggest a fairly minor tweak to the existing tool, I should get the base data, duplicate all the work that went into setting up the wiki and put up a competing one?

Yeah, that is what I meant. Using the edit button on the wiki is VERBOTEN. Duplicating it the only way. It is impossible to help on the wiki. That would beat the purpose of the wiki of course.

Ps: it came to my attention that the armor/weapon data hasn't been uploaded to the wiki database yet. So, I have asked Lch what I can do to help. If Wolfsbane also acquires the database schema from Lch, we can do some more work on this. Perhaps even add the cap only units to the nation lists. (Else, that will have to be done by hand).

But that also has a problem, protection is reasonably hard to determine. It uses some algorithms which are not entirely understood (by me at least, don't know if the information on the wiki is correct, have not looked at it this year.). And then you have base prot, body prot and head prot. But I'm sure that using the information in the Helpful Dom3 DB and the wiki will make it easy to do.

Edit: looked at the protection page. Well, that will not be to hard to implement. Of course there is the problem of having two pieces of body armor, but I don't know if there are base units that have this.

earwicker7

February 20th, 2011 11:17 AM

Re: Question about Bless bonuses...

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejeff (Post 771433)

I understand why it is that way, but it is terribly misleading. If you know the game well, you'll see that the stats are wrong and figure out why, but if you're new you probably won't even think about it.

Exactly... now that I know what I'm looking at, it makes total sense, but I just accepted (off the top of my head) that what was on there would be the same thing I would get if I right-clicked the unit (it isn't).

thejeff

February 20th, 2011 11:34 AM

Re: Question about Bless bonuses...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soyweiser (Post 771482)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejeff (Post 771439)

Yeah, that is what I meant. Using the edit button on the wiki is VERBOTEN. Duplicating it the only way. It is impossible to help on the wiki. That would beat the purpose of the wiki of course.

Well, it was what you suggested. Unless one of us misunderstands the nature of this wiki. Of course, you could edit any individual units protection stat, but that would be a huge project, since you'd have to change every unit's page. I thought the wiki (at least the units part of it) was auto-generated from the data dump. It would be far easier to tweak the generating code than to edit each unit.
Granted, once done, that wouldn't have to be a competing site.

iRFNA

February 20th, 2011 11:37 AM

Re: Question about Bless bonuses...

The armor calc equation appears to be this, for what it's worth:

Code:

  v3 = sub_506D90(a1, 1); //get overall protection, still dunno head/body mechanics

  v4 = sub_506BF0(a1); //get natural protection

  v5 = (signed int)((unsigned __int64)(1717986919i64 * ((40 - v3) * v4 + 20)) >> 32) >> 4;

  v6 = (signed int)((unsigned __int64)(1717986919i64 * ((40 - v3) * v4 + 20)) >> 32) >> 4;

  result = 40;

  v2 = ((unsigned int)v6 >> 31) + v5 + v3;

  if ( v2 < 40 )

    result = v2;

  return result;

I guess there's a couple other possibilities, here they are:

Code:

  v3 = 2 * sub_506D90(a1, 2); //this and the following 2 lines appear to be calc for head/body/extra prot from bracerish stuff?

  v4 = sub_506D90(a1, 3) + v3;

  v5 = (v4 + sub_506D90(a1, 4)) / 4;

  v6 = sub_506BF0(a1); //get natural prot again

  v7 = (signed int)((unsigned __int64)(1717986919i64 * ((40 - v5) * v6 + 20)) >> 32) >> 4;

  v8 = (signed int)((unsigned __int64)(1717986919i64 * ((40 - v5) * v6 + 20)) >> 32) >> 4;

  result = 40;

  v2 = ((unsigned int)v8 >> 31) + v7 + v5;

  if ( v2 < 40 )

    result = v2;

  return result;

and this one, but it appears to mostly be dealing with a faulty unit index?

Code:

  v1 = 0;

  v8 = 0;

  if ( a1 < 0 )

  {

    result = 0;

  }

  else

  {

    sub_49DFA0(a1 >= 140000, "getprot: bad unr");

    sub_4478E0(a1);

    v2 = 1;

    do

    {

      if ( v2 != 1

        || (v3 = word_1189550[46 * a1], v3 >= 0)

        && !(dword_536228[50 * v3] & 0x10000000)

        && ((v4 = sub_4DFF00(a1, 182, 0), !v4) || BYTE1(v4) & 1 || v4 & 0x80 && !(dword_1189540[23 * a1] & 0x80000000)) )

      {

        v5 = sub_506D90(a1, v2);

        if ( v2 == 2 )

        {

          v1 += 2 * v5;

          v8 += v2;

        }

        else

        {

          v1 += v5;

          ++v8;

        }

      }

      ++v2;

    }

    while ( v2 <= 4 );

    v6 = ((40 - v1 / v8) * sub_506BF0(a1) + 20) / 40 + v1 / v8;

    if ( v6 < 40 )

      result = v6;

    else

      result = 40;

  }

  return result;

This isn't against the rules or anything, is it?

Soyweiser

February 20th, 2011 11:41 AM

Re: Question about Bless bonuses...

Quote:

Originally Posted by earwicker7 (Post 771483)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejeff (Post 771433)

Well it isn't intentional. The wiki is simply not complete.

Just as a lot of information about domes is missing.

Soyweiser

February 20th, 2011 11:48 AM

Re: Question about Bless bonuses...

Quote:

Originally Posted by thejeff (Post 771488)

Well, you could have just looked at the templates. Those get the date from the db, and are editable. Still, I don't know if calculations are possible. (It would probably need some sort of math wiki plugin, but I could ask Lch for this information).

And you should have seen the work AncientHistory was doing. (Dunno if he ever finished, got to check that).

Soyweiser

February 20th, 2011 11:50 AM

Re: Question about Bless bonuses...

Quote:

Originally Posted by iRFNA (Post 771489)

The armor calc equation appears to be this, for what it's worth:

Where did you get this? A decompiler?

iRFNA

February 20th, 2011 11:51 AM

Re: Question about Bless bonuses...

Just a disassembler, the "c" code is only pseudo-code. But ya, it's no wonder you guys could never brute force the equation. haha

Edi	February 20th, 2011 03:14 PM

Re: Question about Bless bonuses...

That armor calculation looks correct. I had it somewhere sometime, but either I have lost the email, or just can't find it, or it was in some other venue.

In any case, the armors have hidden attributes for leg and arm protection, which were later not implemented, but which enter into the calculations, which results in all those mysterious additions and multipliers, but which end up with the body prot values we know. The interactions between natural protection, earth magic and so on are then factored in and it's adjusted, so that full earth magic and natural prot are not added.

That's because if they were, high natural protection units would become invulnerable to anything other than armor negating weapons or something that did times x multiplied damage against them (with high strength).

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