Re: Czech OOB 5.5
 

Yeah that's great. See Andy's recent reply on this subject on another post on this forum. So when I need to look for all Yak-23's in a game that contains 35,666 units I need to remember that the Czechs are special and call it Jak ? This is exactly how we get reports like..." Why is it all the Yak-ZZs are XX but the Czech Jak ( or S-101 )that is the same aircraft is YY "

We appreciate the info on the units. Please also appreciate we will be making changes to the game based on our own needs to deal with the ever increasing size of the database.



Don

Re: Czech OOB 5.5
 

You're right - I had no idea. That's why I'm not messing with costs ;)

As for formations, in most cases I've indicated problems. I usually check formations in cases of earliest/last unit. Frankly, I haven't checked formation for "fighter-bombers", assuming, that all period is covered anyway. But as for "level bombers", I've indicated need for new formation for Il-28. I'll also deal in detail with infantry formations later (with APCs and stuff).

As for Yak/Jak-23 - of course, you hold the key. I'm only suggesting changes which might or might not be applied, it's up to your decision. I'm only trying to provide as much info on real thing, as possible. By the way, "Jak" is also Polish, German, Hungarian, Finnish, Croatian, Dutch (OK, they had no Yaks) spelling.

Regards,
Michal

Re: Czech OOB 5.5
 

Maybe I'll finish the aircraft, since I have them almost ready...

149 Su-7B - name should be Su-7BM (Czechoslovakia used only BM and later BKL, B was a Soviet variant). They were acquired only in early 1964 (practical date some 6/64, now there's 1/61). It could carry 4 bombs 500 kg (without fuel tanks - now it has 2). Used until late 1980s (now 12/81). [detailed info in an article on Su-7s in Polish Nowa Technika Wojskowa from 1997]

150 Su-7B - should be renamed Su-7BM or BKL. Used until late 1980s. In addition to 2 x RBK-500 it could additionally carry 2-4 x 250 kg bombs or 4x16 rockets 57mm S-5 (two weapons #185 with 8 shots) (- depicts six-hardpoint variant).

153 and others Su-22M-4 - usually written in sources Su-22M4.

154 Su-22 - should be Su-22M4 - Czechoslovakia used only this single-seater version, from 1984 (now: 1/81). In addition to 2 Kh-25 Karen it can take at least 64 or even 128 rockets 57mm S-5 (2-4 x32) - now it has only 32. Small launchers for 16 rockets practically weren't even seen with Su-22. Or it can take 4x Kh-25 (and 64 rockets) - such combinations appear on photos. I suppose, that this armament should be used until 10/02, like the others (now: 12/93)

155 Su-22M-4 - in addition to 2 Kh-29 Kedge it can take at least 2x500 kg bombs or 64 rockets 57mm S-5 or 40 rockets 80mm S-8.

157 Pe-2 - full name of this version Pe-2FT. Delivered in 5/46 (now there's 1/46), withdrawn already in 1951 (now: 54). Both dates demand change in formation #152. I don't know however, if its class "level bomber" is right, since they were in fact dive bombers (if it's changed, than the formation might serve for Il-28s, which were rather "level beombers").

158 Avia B-33 - there's no use for this unit, since #136 Il-10 (which was also designated B-33) is identical. Anyway, it could take only 4 rockets (now it has 2x2x2). Used until 1960.

There should be also variant of B-33 with 4 new more potent LR-130 rockets (see notes for unit #132) and 2 bombs 100 kg or with rockets and cluster HE or AT bomblets (carried in bomb bays).

161 Il-2M3 - used only until 1950 due to fatigue (now: 12/52). If it was armed with rockets, additional 2x 100 kg bombs were more probable (2x250 kg would be overload, especially considering fatigue of wartime aircraft).

There could be created another unit with 2x250kg bombs only.

163 130mm M-51 MRL - used at least from 1956, possibly even earlier (http://en.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/1...30mm-raketomet ) (now: 1/61).

164 BM-13 Katyusha - no mention on the Czech pages, that they were ever used.

166 MiG-29 - MiG-29s at that time couldn't carry air-to-ground missiles (only later MiG-29M export proposals). Especially, that Kh-29 needs laser station - in CS inventory they were used with Su-22 only. MiG-29 could carry 4 x 500 kg bombs. I don't know if they were operational until the end, but the Czech MiG-29s were given to Poland only in 1996, so ending date could be 12/95 (now: 12/94)

170 S-106 - better name is just MiG-21F-13 - in late 1950s the Czechs abandoned local names of fighters, and as page http://www.valka.cz/clanek_10769.html indicates, S-106 designation isn't used in practice. According to http://www.valka.cz/clanek_10856.html they were used operationally from 11/63 (now: 1/62). In 1962 only few were delivered for training.

There was also version with 2 rockets 240 mm S-24 (I suggested to convert #141 unit this way).

We might consider changing names from S-102 to MiG-15 S-102, S-103 to MiG-15bis S-103, S-105 to MiG-19 S-105.

...
182 MiG-19PM - RS-2U was AA-only missile - see notes for units #141 (if we change it to Ch-66 missile, it was used only on Mig-21PF). To be removed IMO.

183 MiG-21MFN - according to http://www.valka.cz/clanek_10769.html , standard MiG-21M (MA) delivered in 1969, could carry 4 rockets 240 mm. It's not clear, why unit with such old rockets should be available from 1/99.

Proposed aircraft: according to http://www.valka.cz/clanek_10868.html MiG-23BN could take up to 6 x 500 kg or 8 x 250 kg bombs.

If you are interested in further suggestions concerning the Czech OOB, let me know.

Regards
Michal

Re: Czech OOB 5.5
 

Hallo
My notes to list created here (from the start):
- flame tanks - Czechoslovakia really did not have any.
- SU-85 was here - several vehicles were used by CS army corps in the USSR and some of them survived war and were stored up to 50s
- BRDM-2 Malutka - only 9P133 variant used
- SP-Mortars - there were only 2S4 Tulpan and ShM-85
- OT-64C SKOT - military designation is OT-64A for turreted variant (and just OT-64 for unarmed), SKOT-XY are factory designations
- OSA-AKM is 9K33M3, there was also one battery of 9K33M2 OSA-AK used for training, I am not sure about year of introduction (about 1982 +/-)
- BVP-1 (and also RPG-7) HE ammo - to my knowledge Czechoslovakia used only HEAT ammo for these weapons
- OT-90 - there was then OT-90M1 with upgraded gear (but no difference in game terms) and OT-90M2 with added armor to turret - basic turret armor is same as in OT-64A - anyway during my service I never saw any OT-90M2, though they were accepted to service - in my opinion only very few vehicles were upgraded
- Strela-10M - only IFF modernized, still in service (OSA-AKM unit was disbanded in 2006)
- we haven't Malutka-2 - there were only 9M14M and 9M14P1
- Strela-2M was introduced in 1973, we haven't basic Strela-2
- 100mm ATG vz.53 - main ATG weapon but not used in bunkers - heavy fortification in southern Moravia (yes that one about many people thinks that did not exists) and around Bratislava used 85mm vz.44/59 fortress ATG (ZiS-S-53 derivative) - we did not used foreign field 100mm ATGs
- 57mm ATG - service ended in around 60s
- 30mm AAG (PLDvK) vz. 53 = towed version --- vz.53/59 = self-propelled
- 122mm - there were M30 howitzers and A19 guns
- 130mm M46 - used since 60s to early 90s
- RPG-2 - we don't used it
- RPG-75 did not replaced RPG-7 - it is supplement, RPG-7 was still main squad anti-tank weapon
- MiG-21PFM - RS-2US - actually during 60s pilots here trained to use this missile against ground targets (as AA was useless)
- BM-13 Katyusha - we don't have it, not even in ww2 (BM-13s which supported CS troops were always Soviet ones)
- MiG-29 - officially removed from service in 1994, stored till deal with Poland
- "... rockets 240 mm. It's not clear, why unit with such old rockets should be available from 1/99." --- it should represent S-24 rockets, MiG-21MFN modernization was about IFF and navigation stuff - only new armament was wiring for R-60 (AA-8) missiles
- MiG-23BN - it should be here and also with Kh-23 missiles (only these -23BN used this missile in CS air force)

Re: Czech OOB 5.5
 

This issue is messed up. OT-64A is more often encountered for a turreted version, but the only monograph book on OT-64 (Czech, Grada 2010) calls it OT-64 2A, and turretless version - OT-64A (it would be consistent with Polish naming). However, we might leave OT-64A due to popularity. By the way, I wrote before, that they were used until early 1990s, but it seems, that a turreted version with KPVT was still encountered in Czech peacekeeping forces along with 7.62 mm turreted version and 12.7 mm DShKM pivot version.

Indeed, quickly browsing Internet I haven't found photos of OT-90, that would show additional armour. Anyway, unit 66 should have turret armor 2/1/1

Was it strictly for training? With 13 kg warhead and low precision it wouldn't be real threat. Its specifications are wrong in this case, since it has warhead size 15 and HE kill 20 (weapon 104), while Kh-23 has warhead size 12 and HE kill 25 (weapon 206 - it had warhead 108 kg)

Anyway, S-24 rockets were used with MiG-27M from 1969, so it could be changed to this plane. Unit #183 MiG-21MFN doesn't offer anything new, especially EW (which is 0).

So, unit 187 MiG-23ML should be better renamed MiG-23BN (Kh-23 missiles - even up to 4, picture 11143).

MiG-23BN and MiG-27 (unit #184 and other countries) had max speed 1800 km/h (1.7Ma), so it should be lowered from 25. Book on MiG-23/27 confirms maximum load 6 x 500 kg bombs. If rangefinder helps with aircraft, these special ground attack variants had laser RF.

Regards,
Michal

Re: Czech OOB 5.5
 

Oops, MiG-21M naturally, not 27.

Re: Czech OOB 5.5
 

There are already IS-2's in that OOB ( unit #414 )....

??

Don

Re: Czech OOB 5.5
 

Hope this will help...
OT-90M1 video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9uSO...eature=related

OT-90M2 video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkv5p...eature=related

OT-90 "Tank Day" video...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRKSE...eature=related

Other sites...
Third picture down right, Scroll & See...
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product1022.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/forum...pic.php?t=1000
http://rangerneil.com/Military_Vehicles/OT90_index.html

Sounds like a couple of people can verify the authenticity. Though on the "other sites" the Czech markings are clear.

I believe the turret to look similiar to the one mounted on the SKOT-64(?).

Regards,
Pat

Re: Czech OOB 5.5
 

Nice films.

..however in my opinion this is normal OT-90 (or OT-90M1 - version with slight changes) - a turret on this bad quality clip looks smooth, while OT-90M2 should have additional armour of flat plates welded to turret. It all suggests, that OT-90 should have turret armour 2/1/1 in the game, and there is no confirmation, if better armoured variant M2 existed in any significant number. A Polish article from the 1990s claimed, that all were modified this way - but this was apparently too optimistic...

Right, they were combined from surplus BVP-1 (BMP-1) and withdrawn SKOTs.

As for IS-2 - right, I haven't looked far enough in the oob at that stage to discover it.

Regard
Michal

Re: Czech OOB 5.5
 

.......and 15 seconds with the database check utility looking at the vehicles listed in that unit class would have given you the answer instead of ASSUMING it doesn't exist and we need to add it. Even a quick search for "IS" with "find" would have found it in three tries !

If you want to report errors that's fine, but do me the courtesy of at least checking the entire OOB THEN your own work before posting it.

Thank You.

Don