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Re: War against tengu

Quote:

Originally Posted by rdonj (Post 804121)

Although, probably the most important thing you should know right now is that you should already have been preparing for this war in the back of your mind and stockpiling some things "just in case". If you have been doing so that's good and you can ignore the rest of this, but I'll go ahead and write this as a note to newer players in general:

It sounds like you're really under-prepared for war at present based on things you've said, and that creates a huge issue. Three turns isn't enough time to build up magical infrastructure, summon up troops and mages, and deploy everything where you want it unless you already have that magical infrastructure. And even then you probably have some limits as to what mages you can produce your important items and summons with, while you have to be preparing for other things. In dominions, especially the late game (which is thankfully not entirely where your game looks to be) you need to anticipate your opponents and get ready to fight them before war is ever declared. The lack of hammers in CBM lets you avoid this to a significant extent compared to how things used to be (which is no doubt one of the biggest reasons our dear friend Calahan disagrees with the change), but you still have to make sure that you have a good supply of some of the more important items/mages/summons that you'll be relying on for your plans ready, as these should generally be things you're constrained in the ability to produce.

If you have to make everything at the last minute, you will be rushed and underprepared for when the time comes to face down your opponent, and unable to deploy in an ideal fashion. His nation being what it is, he should be intending to cover half or more of your lands in tengu in a single turn, as well as send in some other threats that you may or may not know about already, like teleporting thugs to block your movement so that when you try to deploy your units can't get to where you want them and you could lose a lot of gems and income without being able to fight for it. So you should be able to put out a significant defensive force the turn BEFORE hostile orders are allowed to be given, so that he cannot prevent you from acting. You should also ideally have a stable of at least 6+ flying/magicmove thugs in an empire your size ready to contest any territory that is seized.

Anyway, hopefully I don't come off as too condescending, but hopefully that little demi-rant has helped someone, somewhere to understand the game a little better :P

I hear what you are saying, but at this moment I have way surpassed everyone in this game in research, and the Shinuyama have little trouble getting the main units out in this game. My biggest concern is dealing with his raiding forces. Everything else is planned for to some one degree or another. I've got a lot of things stock piled. I'll have to see what kind of attack orders I can give my mages at this time.

Re: War against tengu

rdonj has a good point, you do sound underprepared. I'm familiar with the MP game overall and the mod nation you're facing, and you're looking at dealing with a larger, wealthier nation which has been on war footing for a long time because of its recent war with Ulm. Plus, it's a safe bet that MA Jomon has been planning for this war for a long time, given Shinuyama and Jomon's proximity. You'll need to be careful how you commit your resources (as well as preserve your income) because a war of attrition does not end well for the smaller nation, especially since 33% of your gem income only came online two turns ago from a couple of globals, while Jomon's gem income has been in place for dozens of turns. The troublesome thing about Tengus is that they're really cheap and really mobile glass cannons. With their negligible protection, anything that does hit them will almost certainly maim or kill them, but Jomon gets 2.5 per air gem and it doesn't take long to move them to the front lines (or to your back lines). Therefore, if a force of tengu capture a province with a decent gem or gold income, or if those tengu hack or zap a handful or troops (especially summons or commanders) then they've already paid for themselves even if they are blown to smithereens immediately thereafter. And if Jomon has even a modest air income, it'll be able to replace lost Tengu numbers quickly and cheaply. This thread has some good advice but the real trick, given the situation you're in, is to surprise your opponent.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Re: War against tengu

Actually, watching your gem income, I've only been behind Jomon on two turns. Almost every other time, I've been neck in neck. Also, until the last 4 turns, I was the income and gem leader in the game. As to stock piling, remember, the nation of Shinuyama are good at two things. Building tons of low resource stealth troops and powerful mages. I think you'll find me a slightly hard nut to crack than you give me credit for. But I'm not rushing to move all my troops to the border just to show you what I have. Rest assured, I have something in mind for you. Enjoy.

Re: War against tengu

So the battle orders can be given on 42 or 41?

Re: War against tengu

Quote:

Originally Posted by legowarrior (Post 804147)

So the battle orders can be given on 42 or 41?

Given on 41 to be carried out by the start of 42.

Re: War against tengu

Yeah, my answer was directed towards large battles, not dealing with raiding, so I made assumptions that Jomon would have arrow fend, a protection buff, etc. and didn't really talk about the vulnerabilities of low prot and no shield.

Just to add to FG and rdonj's good suggestions:

Experiment with different thug builds. Lightning immunity is a given and then you just have to see how much protection you need to prevent the tengu from hurting your thug. I think you'll reach a point where, barring an unlucky role, your thugs can handle basically any amount of tengu (unless of course they are buffed with weapons of sharpness). Combine that with an AOE attack or a defense like fire shield or soul vortex and you should be in good shape. Everyone's favorite raider, the zmey, would probably do a nice job clearing out tengu. His protection might not be enough so if you have indie S mages you could add on body ethereal. Here, away from those damage multiplying weapons, I think Shura definitely have a role to play. I think a snake bladder stick would make a nice weapon because of it's large AOE and that will synergize nicely with the shura's fear. The question will be how much additional gear does he need. Almost certainly a vine shield and likely also something to boost protection. An ettin with a vine and charcoal shield and BE would also work nicely.

As much as possible don't give Jomon time to buff. Archers up front, zmey attacking immediately, etc. Keep in mind that if he doesn't have a province to retreat to all you need is to cause a route, not even to kill all the opposing force. And given how cheap the tengu are the real prize will be killing his commanders.

Edit: And I think it's definitely worth running some tests with quickened bakemono warriors.