Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

To begin with, merry X-mas to everyone, best wishes to you and your families!:happy:

Now, on topic...


First of all, I don't understand why nationality prevents someone from commenting. Americans do comment on Russian military, Israelis on Arab militaries etc. Second, the Turks in the game have 73 BE and 77 morale in 2016. That puts them almost in the same league as France and Germany (around 75 BE IIRC) and actually with higher morale than both. They even have better xp and morale than Russian military (70 on both values), even though IMHO the latter is definitely more experienced and motivated (come to think of it the comtemporary Russian military is undervalued in the game).
Turkey isn't much more experienced or motivated than the average NATO countries that are in the 69-66 range. That is my point.
I do agree with what you said about hindsight though and I remembered that most events regarding Turkey happened after the latest update. One thing that is certain is that the coup attempt of July (and the purges that followed) did certainly have an effect on the ability of the Turkish military and I think that it should reflected in the next update (a drop in values after July 2016).

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

And having a hull down position and the tank next to you destroyed by an atgm and not doing a thing about it is guaranteed to ruin your day really soon...

Like one armoured corps officer said, "using the tanks like Iraqi army in 1990's as a static fortress..."

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

One can't entirely fault the Iraqi generals/troops. They were stuck in a situation they (for the most part) knew they had no business being in and did the best they could with what they had.

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

http://x3.cdn03.imgwykop.pl/c3201142...N5JhKdaAnI.jpg


This pretty much sums it up, but that data is like 1 week old.
Hard to give me links now. There are few more videos of Leopards being hit or destroyed. Most of good scores were recorded.

Even Leopard is worthless if operated by worthless crews and commanded by worthless leaders.
This pretty much sums up Turkish military potential.

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

.........and why their ratings are on the list for review

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

The Turkish 2nd Army is doing the fighting along the southern border. Any question of the Turks ability to fight in Syria is best answered by it's 2nd Army.

With regard to how it may respond to a regional escalation is another question, that may be gathered by looking at it's global power ranking, somewhere between #8 and #10 globally.

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Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

Just one minor correction, the Leo-2 formations were pulled from the 1st Army (the one stationed in Eastern Thrace) and attached to 2nd Army.

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

Let's give that, a formation from the 1st was attached to the 2nd Army, arguably one of lesser experience than those of the 2nd Army, does not permit us to besmeerch the capability of the 2nd Army.

Further, the ranking assigned to Turkey in the game, maybe about right given it's power ranking derived from outside sources.

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Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

for clarity....I said the Turk ratings "are on the list for review"........it does NOT mean there WILL be a change only that we will do further investigations and comparisons before the next release and then decide if an adjustment might be warranted. I'd like to think the Turkish Army is doing the same thing with their tactical approach in that area of engagement. 6 Leos lost to ATGM suggests a change in tactics might be in order and perhaps a contract to equip them with Trophy ( or equivalent ) might be a fine idea

Re: Leo2A4 destroyed
 

Will the list of "experience/morale to change" be published before the release to possibly discuss it?

Yes, I may have some question regarding some countries.

As of Turkish military power, we should probably ask Greeks and Armenian first who know and fear their possible power. Yet, I somehow believe that Turkish capacity is judged after their fine appearance in Cypriot War of 1974. But we must remember Cypriot military back then was not best either: old equipment, lack of funds to finance organization and training, not to mention internal terrorism problem etc.

Beating Cyprus quickly was not that hard really. Similar story with Iraq. As far as I heard from veterans, Iraqis were feared and treated at equal enemy in 1991. Their quick colapse was a shock for many.