Re: PvK Balance Mod Version 1.1 posted (for SE4 Gold Version 1.91 - Patch 4)
 

Mentioned this in another thread, but changing racial costs will make AIs and EMP files obsolete. Are you (or someone else) going to provide AI_General.txt files with this as well, or will this just be for new empires?

Re: PvK Balance Mod Version 1.1 posted (for SE4 Gold Version 1.91 - Patch 4)
 

Thanks Spoon.

Krsqk, that's a good point. I'll just do the mod for new empires first, and then hope some brilliant and eager people mod all the AI's. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Mainly because it's a lot of time-consuming work to do it.

PvK

Re: PvK Balance Mod Version 1.1 posted (for SE4 Gold Version 1.91 - Patch 4)
 

After thinking about this some more, what Fyron said about the tolerance could almost be applied to everything. The problem most people have with the characteristics isn't so much that they are too cheap or too expensive when raising them, it's that you get too many points back when reducing them and don't hurt your race enough to account for it. I think most of your changes could be made on the minus side of the charatcteristics.

And doing this would have the side effect of making your work in revising the AI easier, as few of the stock AI anyway have much in the way of reductions IIRC.

Geoschmo

Re: PvK Balance Mod Version 1.1 posted (for SE4 Gold Version 1.91 - Patch 4)
 

Both are good ideas, Geo, although the AIs often are set to pick the undervalued attributes, and the total point levels can't be changed, so I can't really change the scale without increasing the power level, which isn't the goal of the mod. (Probably not clear there. I mean, if I wanted to not break AI setups by keeping positive costs almost all the same, I think it would probably end up devaluing everything but the undervalued ones, which would probably end up making 2000-point empires as potent as pre-mod 5000-point empires, and since I can't change the starting point bracket values from 0/2000/3000/5000, that's probably not desired. Agree?)

So I think some of the popular ones are probably under-valued on the positive side:

maintenance reduction (maybe 200/point to +5, then 300/point to +20)

combat bonuses (maybe 100/point to +5, then 200/point to +25)

intelligence (maybe 75/point to +10, then 150/point to +25)

political savvy (perhaps twice as valuable as the production aptitudes)

and perhaps construction.

PvK

Re: PvK Balance Mod Version 1.1 posted (for SE4 Gold Version 1.91 - Patch 4)
 

Emotionless is obviously way too expensive.
Organics may become overprized after 1.82 OA fix.

Re: PvK Balance Mod Version 1.1 posted (for SE4 Gold Version 1.91 - Patch 4)
 

"Emotionless is obviously way too expensive"

Subtract 800 from the cost for Emotionless, since it lets you drop Happyness to 50%.

Phoenix-D

Re: PvK Balance Mod Version 1.1 posted (for SE4 Gold Version 1.91 - Patch 4)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you reduce the cost of Farming, this will essentially make Organic cheaper, and also give less points back to everyone else, who can safely drop it to 50%.

Re: PvK Balance Mod Version 1.1 posted (for SE4 Gold Version 1.91 - Patch 4)
 

Not too mention making farming cheaper than mining or refining just makes sense. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Of course making sense isn't always the same thing as game playability. But in this case maybe it is. Good suggestion Spoon.

Geoschmo

Re: PvK Balance Mod Version 1.1 posted (for SE4 Gold Version 1.91 - Patch 4)
 

PVK is not the only modder who is watching this thread closely. Thanx for all of your help with the AoW mod!

Re: PvK Balance Mod Version 1.1 posted (for SE4 Gold Version 1.91 - Patch 4)
 

I've done some work on this, and it's getting there. Here are my current notes, for your comments.

Traits:
=======

* Advanced Power Conservation cost lowered from 1000 to 500.

This trait was rarely used, and while helpful, was not nearly as useful as other 1000-point traits.

* Mechanoids cost lowered from 1000 to 250.

This trait was probably never used by a skilled player in a competitive game. I have played many unmodded games, and have never been attacked by a plague bomb, and the few natural and espionage plagues have been easily cured for little cost and little effect. Moreover, empires with this advantage are immediately identified as such, so only an unobservant player would ever try to use a plague attack on a Mechanoid player. 250 points seems about right for this minor advantage, and removes the "balance penalty" for roleplaying mechanoid races.

* Lucky cost lowered from 1000 to 250.

The practical value of this varies depending on the game settings for random events. In many games, it will not be worth very much. In games with catastrophic events, at 250 points it simply becomes a dare to risk not taking it. Since the effects vary, and if multiple empires take it, they counteract each other, and since frequently this has little effect, it seemed to make sense to reduce it to a minor cost, which removes the amount of "wasted points" for empires which take Lucky in games where it won't have much or any effect.

* Natural Merchants, Propulsion Experts, Ancient Race and Hardy Industrialists left at 1000 points.

These all seem of roughly equivalent value to me. Ancient Race can be abused in some gamey ways, but gives no advantage beyond knowledge, so opponents can get more permanent advantages. Hardy Industrialists may be somehwat less efficient compared to construction aptitude, but it can be combined with it to reach the highest levels of construction rate, which some players use in their grand strategies.

* Advanced Storage Techniques cost increased from 1000 to 2000 points.

This one was pretty much universally accepted as the best 1000-point unmodded advantage, for its many effects and side-effects on facilities, starting strength, population, and cargo space. 2000 points seems about right to me compared to the other adjusted values.

* All racial techs remain at 1500 points.

After the many discussions over the years, it seems to me that these are all fairly well balanced and rated at 1500 points. They can all seem too powerful or too expensive if one doesn't appreciate all of their abilities and counter-tactics.

* Emotionless cost reduced from 3000 to 1800 (net 2200 to net 1000 when minimizing Happiness).

This is a very useful ability for lazy or new players, as well as for large empires that suffer damage that would otherwise make the entire empire riot and fall. Almost no competitive players were thinking twice about paying 2200 points for it, however. At 1000 net points, I'd say it's a good deal, and a valid choice for roleplayers.

Physical Strength:
==================
* Basic cost lowered from 25 to 3.
* Threshold lowered from 20 to 10.
* Positive threshold cost lowered from 100 to 5.
* Negative Threshold cost increased from 10 to 3.

Minimizing troop strength to 50 now only provides 150 points.
Maximizing troop strength to 150 now only costs 230 points.

Intelligence:
=============
* Basic cost increased from 25 to 50.
* Threshold lowered from 20 to 10.
* Negative Threshold cost increased from 10 to 40.

This means "the cheap bonus" is +10 for 500 points, instead of +20 for 500 points.
+20 costs 1500 points, and +50 would cost 4500.
Playing a "dumb" race is now more viable - a 90% race gets 500 points, while a 50% race gets 2100.

PvK