Re: PBW - Newbie Galactic Combat II Crisis Forum.
 

Hmmmm.

I am not usually suspicious of things, but the fact that 7 players come from a small local in Russian is exceedingly suspicious.

Complicating matters is the fact that the 7 players took so long to reply to Ruatha's e-mail. Most of the other players answered within a day or two.

Worse, all 7 players seem to share the same local IP provider.

Worse still, all 7 players are in either Novosibirsk or Tomsk. Even more damaging is that they are sister cities.

And from what I can see, none of the seven players have stepped up to explain what has happened.

It can be argued that some of the evidence is circumstantial. But circumstantial or not, it is damaging.

Ruatha, up till now, this game was fun. A lot of fun.

And I loved being a participant in the in-game story. That was new, unique and challenging.

But now it isn't. Even if Ruatha should decide to continue as the host, I am not sure I would want to continue playing.

IMO, Ruatha has done an excellant job as the host of this game.

And yes, I am disappointed the game likely to be over. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif But much better to abort the game than to encourage this type of behaviour. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Even a face off between the East and the West would be a partial encouragement.

Similarly, IMO separate games would also be a partial encouragement.

Re: PBW - Newbie Galactic Combat II Crisis Forum.
 

Ok, now I understand what is happening, I must have missed the original explanation.

It sounds like the same guy, then again, it could be 7 friends. To be honest though, I think we could take them. Rutha, you and I have been in an alliance, and we always knew that a conflict with the CCCP was coming, some day, thats one of the reasons we were trying to court Greaybeard into the alliance, and also why we have been trying to take on the Terrens, while the CCCP is powerful, I think the Central Powers is just as good, even if we don't quite have the membership they do, however now that many people know whats going on, I'm sure that the Central Powers will be getting many more Allies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . At least tempararally.

I say continue the game as it stands, and together with other players we can drive though the CCCP like a hot knife through butter. Imagine possibilities of a war that big.

Besides I need story material!!!

Re: PBW - Newbie Galactic Combat II Crisis Forum.
 

How I think game must be save. Hwo want to play -must play hwo not - must withdraw from game.
In this situation Game must be in fully avtomation turns.
If this game will delete that means your alliance to lose.
If not play and win to stronge.

Re: PBW - Newbie Galactic Combat II Crisis Forum.
 

CaptRR.
I've thought about that.
For me, I could continue just to get story material.
But for the Geckos and the Zax it would be hard. They are pinned down surroudned by the enemy alliance.
The Argons are constantly being hit by 10+ intel attacks per turn, some ships lost every turn to crew conVersion. I calculated some turns ago that his enemies had approximately 1 million intel points per turn, most of which goes into intel attacks against him.

I do belive that we might have a very small chance of winning against them, but as Tbontob says, that would be condoning this kind of behaviour.
And I don't think we can get the kind of cooperation that they have developed.

As to them being friends? I've asked them and they deny knowledge of eachothers.
One option is to continue the game as small multiplayer (1-3 players) for the stories.

I'm sorry. But I just don't see the game surviving.
If you wish you can take over as host and then I'll continue as long as you do. But I can't accept the responsibility of allowing this situation to continue as present. I can as I said continue so that all effort you have put into the stories wont be lost.

Another option is to continue writing the stories freely from the game, spinning from the interaction between our stories.
If for example one of us writes of deafeat the other must follow that.
The CP might even go to war against the Zax in the future if the Zax wins against the FMA. Then we will have two sides of a war.
Or the CP might split up!

From what we've written I think that this would be a viable option.
I found it hard initially to cancel the game but then I've had a week to ponder the issue.

Now in retroperspective I see alot of settings that should have been different in this game and that will be changed in a next Galactic combat.
(No gifts or tech trade, no surrendering, show only own points, max alliance 2 players, 0 starting race points, win condition, player 1 300% more than player 2, huge universe, high tech cost)

[ March 16, 2003, 05:51: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: PBW - Newbie Galactic Combat II Crisis Forum.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ruatha, I can be naive at times, but I just don't buy their not knowing each other.

They don't know each other and seven players are from the same two sister cities?

What are the odds of that?

While not impossible, the odds of that happening by chance are very close to it.

So what are they hiding? If they will not explain what has happened, I can only conclude they are lying. And if they are lying, then why are they lying?

Worse case scenario. One player is playing seven races.

But it doesn't have to be seven. It need only be two.

One player playing 2 races (however disguised) is illegal.

For me, the game is hopelessly contaminated.

Re: PBW - Newbie Galactic Combat II Crisis Forum.
 

Hi Tbontob.
I essentially agree with you that the game is dead.
It's just hard letting go of the first game I've hosted, the first game where I've written an in-game story and the second game I've entered into in PBW.

I'll hear whith CaptRR first before I'll do anything else.

Re: PBW - Newbie Galactic Combat II Crisis Forum.
 

CaptRR. You and I could continue against the AI to get story material?

Re: PBW - Newbie Galactic Combat II Crisis Forum.
 

Well, it was fun. That was my first PBW game, but I must state that I want to play again ... But not with that suspicious situation. I know that we may ally ourselves against the CCCPs, and we may win, but ... I like diplomacy relations, not the war, war is necessary for the game but I think that the great thing of playing against other humans is to negotiate with them, without that, the game loses a whole dimension, and war is the only thing that is left in the game. I will play another game if it is hosted for you, Ruatha, you have been a great host and I like the idea of a inner game story, so warn me if you start another one like this.

Greetings from Barcelona to everyone

Re: PBW - Newbie Galactic Combat II Crisis Forum.
 

Ok. If we do restart a new game. What settings should we have.
I'm thinking about these:
(It's alot (28 points) but I've learned to be specific)

1. No tech trading, No gifts/tributes. Only trading of materials. (This way we don't get high tech immediatly. It will be disabled)

2. Max alliances two players. (Military alliance or partnership), research and trade with how many tou like (This way we won't get superalliances, making it impossible to be a lone wolf. Now you still have achance on your own).

3. No Ai-mod (you don't have to worry that the AI will mes things up, the Ai has limited capacity, check bottom of this post)

4. Low tech start.

5. No surrendering.

6. Don't share comm channels or system maps.(More focus on individual exploration).

7. Always have a valid e-mail adress where the host can reach you.

8. Only own score is shown. (Use intel if you need more info on your neighbours)

9. 0 Starting race points. (harder to maximize and minimize racial traits.

10. Max.min of racial traits is allowed (if you want to do it you'll have to pay the prize by lowering something else)

11. Win condition 300% higher score than second player, starts after 80 turns. (Last man standing can take years, 300% then you're practicly set on the path to becoming Last man anyway)

12. High tech cost.

13. Intel allowed. (with max 1 partner we won't get ridicilus high intel points)

14. Max 100 mines/sector.

15. No omnipresent view. (explore)

16. Huge Galaxy (~255 systems, 1900+ planets) (I like it)

17. 20 players at start.

18. Retroseries are allowed. (If you want to pay for it use it)

19 . Roleplaying is encouraged as is in-game stories.

20. Absolutely no e-mail diplomacy prior to in-game contact.

21. Alliances are to be based upon in-game events and considerations only, no external friendship or such may come into play when deciding alliances.

22. Breaking the rules may result in a warning, or being kicked from the game. Depending on the nature and severity of the transgression. Decided by the host.

23. When uploading your empire mark wich shipset you are using. No duplicate shipsets allowed.

24. I will need an e-mail from each player before you are allowed to join.
(Please state wich players you know who has already entered the game and where you live.
It's ok to be friends with other players and to live near them. But be open with it so it won't rise questions later.)

25. When an empire becomes without player the host will go in and check that empire every fifth turn until a replacement i sfound. he will then see to it that the empire builds defences. He will not start or continue offensive actions.
in the case of a conflict between the hosts empire and the playerless empire the host must accept peace with that empire until a replacement has been found. (This is becouse of the No-Ai Mod)

26. The aim of this game is to have FUN.
If you see a fellow player making an obvious fatal mistake, alert them instead of taking advantage of it.

27. Total turtelling is forbidden!
(You may shut down worm-holes and build system gravitational shields but there must always be atleast one way to enter a system. If it doesn't have any worm-holes it can't have a system gravitational shield.
This goes for individual systems aswell as your entire empire.
You may shutdown all wormholes into your empire, then you may build system gravitational shields in all systems but one!)

28. Anything I've forgotten?



.No-Ai mod
One of the most frustrating things about playing Space Empires IV PBW, or any PBEM for that matter, is in the event you miss a turn, or if your turn file gets scrambled somehow, the ai will take your turn for you. As we all know the ai does a particularly awful job of handling things.

We all have horror stories I am sure. I was in a game once where the AI, broke several trade and research treaties, declared war on my closest neighbor, took control of my fleets in that system and wiped out three of his planets, not to mention filling my construction queues with worthless junk, and obsoleting and replacing all of my carefully thought out ship designs.

All his dirty work was done in one turn. But it took me 7 or 8 turns to undo the damage. Particularly because I was close to the limit on maintenance anyway, and loosing all that treaty income meant several ships being abandoned.

There is a setting in empire options "AI should not make changes during simultaneous games." As we all know, that does little or nothing to help the problem. Jimbob and I have come up with a solution. It involves replacing the files that control what the ministers do during your turn. More on how it does it later.

These files, will eliminate the problem as much as is possible. By using these files, the ai will NOT:
1. Obsolete your designs
2. Design new ships or units
3. Put ANYTHING in your construction queue
4. Become angry at other races, for ANY reason
5. Break existing treaties
6. Offer or accept new treaties
7. Declare war
8. Attack colonies of empires you are not at war with

Using these files the AI still MIGHT:
1. Fill your research queue if empty (I figured this is about the only thing it does decently)
2. Reply to Messages from other empires, but only to refuse any requests. (But I have modified the speech.txt file so that it is clear the refusals are coming from the AI and not the player)
3. Move your ships around somewhat
4. Attack colonies of Empires you are at war with.
5. Attack ships of Empires you are at war with.
6. Send colony ships that do not have previous orders.

It is very important that if that player leaves the game a human replacement is found. Turning them over to the ai will result in a useless do-nothing empire.

Do not use AI or Neutral players with this mod. It is not recommended that you allow the AI to take several turns for you using this mod. Basically it is for short term absences. It will continue doing nothing during a long term absence, and that could be worse than letteing the normal Ai run things for you.

Geoschmo


I will mail all of you who have shown interest when this game comes closer to reality.
(All non russians in NGC2)

Ruatha

[ March 16, 2003, 15:05: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: PBW - Newbie Galactic Combat II Crisis Forum.
 

Well, It looks like I've been overrulled. With so many people dropping, the game just wouldn't be fun anymore, which is a real shame since we all put alot of work into it.

A new game would be interesting, but then again I don't think we should go overboard imposing alot of new rules. Part of the fun of PBW is the openness to make alliances, share tech to work for a common interest, basiclly all the things you could do in the real world.

I will continue to submit to the story, I guess without the restrictions of the game I could get some pretty interesting concepts going. The story people will have to keep in contact with each other so we don't step on each others shoes. Maybee make a long term plan, for say the life of our chracters. I'm even thinking of starting a story prequal to the game, I hinted in my stories that there were some incidents between the Dravens and Weyrlings before the alliance was formed, but I never went into much detail. It would make a pretty good story.

I guess I'll start looking for a new game too, maybee a proportions game, been playing the mod for a while and it looks like it would be fun in PBW.

Once again I hate to see the game get screwed up it was alot of fun, and my first PBW game, I loved the deplomacy part of the game, even If I wasn't that good of a player.