|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
Geoschmo |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
Our justice system hasn't changed very much since joining EU (I voted against joining though)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Cmon look at how weak our justice system has become, its laughable, the police are scared of criminals nowadays cos of how light sentencing is and the fact that police cant do anything to criminals incase it 'breaks' their human rights, and EU's human rights is stupid as it tends to protect the criminal instead of the victim. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
the plan failed in 41.... Germany never did secure their left flank.... But Novemember of 41 they had suffered 750000 casualties out of 3.4 million. Their panzer forces were spent.
Russia had 20000 tanks at the start of that war. The Keiv disaster was never repeated. And the 'lightening war' was never effective in the east due to the vast size and horrible roads and weather. In late 41 the soviet airforce held its own. And Stalin learnt via Kiev that withdrawl was needed to save army Groups and that at Kiev the Field commander was correct and should be allowed to make the judgement call. Nov 41 the germans also faced the reality that their tanks were outclassed and that they had to attack the 34 from behind. The soviets figured this out very quickly. Hence the long withdrawl battles of 42... And at the end of 41 the okl and okh were controlled by hitler completely. But then again this is all what if ? ( which are great books ) P.S. you do not win a war when you have 15 different rifles |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Yes, but the issue was very much in doubt for a while. The Germans could have beaten the Russians with a few breaks and some better decision making. It makes you wonder if the Germans had their full force attacking the Russians, instead of holding much in reserve to defend the Atlantic Wall, and the Russians had not had the support of the lend lease program if they would have been able to hold out.
Geoschmo |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
the baltics was a mistake as well.
This was one area that helped start the nails in the coffin as 15 divisions were tied up there. And 2 panzer Groups were used there. This had grave effects on the equipment in August during the dust storms. Not to mention the troops themselves. I also believe that the Africa campaign was a mistake as well. The divisions should have been sent there to finish that theater off as it was very important to capture suez and the middle east. The war on two fronts could not be avoided as the german navy could not support a landing on english soil. The losses from norway were felt during the build up of Sealion. Germany could only hope for a truce with England. Also the their was the famous undersizing of the main gun for the iv's which proved to be very costly in experienced panzer tanks during the cruel winter of 41 and the spring of 42. And also remember that Japan did not declare war on Russia. THis freed up many units from the far east. WHich showed their weight during the December and January battles A very intersting topic. Indeed. Better with pints. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
... about 20% of the budget each year goes to paying interest on the national debt. ... annual US Federal budget is about 2.25 trillion dollars. ... current estimated US Federal budget deficit is about 450 billion dollars. And that puts the deficit as about 20% of the budget. Which is quite a bit more than 3%... And I don't like that at all... I think the current government of the US is completely incompetent. I would rather have seen no tax cuts, no expansions to medicare, etc., and devote the next several years to making the debt not so big. I don't want to be paying outrageous taxes a few decades from now because some selfish boomers want the Government to pay all their bills for them. I'm not happy about going into the workforce and paying a bunch of money to social security when I know it won't be there when I hit 70. And I don't like all the privitization crap they've thrown around with SS either. If I want to make myself a retirement account, I can make my own damned account, I don't need a bunch of pencil-pushing buerecrats making one for me. And if the "dot com" bust taught us anything, it's the fact that the average person has no ****ing clue on how to invest money wisely, so institutionalizing it in government is definitely a Bad Thing. Of course, eventually all of this will be passed in some sort of legislation, because the baby boomers want it, and they vote. I guess that was a bit of a rant... I guess I don't like the feeling of virtual indentured servitude at the hands of the US Government if I choose to stay here. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
Our justice system hasn't changed very much since joining EU (I voted against joining though)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Cmon look at how weak our justice system has become, its laughable, the police are scared of criminals nowadays cos of how light sentencing is and the fact that police cant do anything to criminals incase it 'breaks' their human rights, and EU's human rights is stupid as it tends to protect the criminal instead of the victim.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">EU has not much to do with your justice system becoming weak, EU has nothing to do with criminal law yet, what do you mean that EU has made to it? I missed a zero in the driving license, it should be $1000-2000, sorry. About spanking, doing it when your angry is wrong but I can understand why you do it, (I've felt the urge myself from time to time, but never done it), I don't condone it, but understand it. Doing it when you are calm is worse, then it is planned and executed in cold blod. Simple learning theory tells you that any punishment (If you must use punishment, sometimes some kind of punishnment is needed (time-out, removing of positive enhancements etc), not often but sometimes), the punishment must come immediatly to the punished act/behaviour. If you must calm down, it won't be immediatly. If not immidiatly the punishment isn't connected to the act/behaviour but with the punisher, and the next time they do it they make sure they don't get caught. Spanking doesn't show them how they should have handled this situation. It's a simple stimuli/response thing, you must directly connect act/punishment. If you discover that they have stolen it's to late to make a direct connection, so how would I handle that? I'd make the child go back to his friend, return the cards, ask for forgivness, and make them ask their friend how they could make things right again (Buy their friends extra cards from their allowence?). Try to premiate good behaviour, if they themself tell about bad things they've done, while being angry about what they've done praise them for coming forward aswell. Encourage all good behaviour, use positive reinforcement, if they give pokemon cards away to their friends of free will, buy them extra cards or praise them for it, vocal praise is a strong positive reinforcer! And they'll like you better and will be more prone to tell you when they've done something wrong. If you spank them they sure won't tell you of their misbehavings of free will, and when they get older and starts with alcohol and such you won't know about it. If they have been given positive reinforcements instead as primary raising method they will come and tell you about it, and then you can discuss the pros and cons of what they've done (There are pros to stealing and drinking, be honest, but also point to the cons wich are larger!) About the cards, include a discussion about why they stole, was there some special cards they wanted, could they have gotten them some other way? trade? saving? Show altarnate ways to achieve the goal she had when she/he stole. Read "Don't shoot the dog" by Karen Pryor, an animnal trainer, but animal training techniques work equally good at humans (kids, matess, friends, working collegues, all can be trained http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) [ July 26, 2003, 09:18: Message edited by: Ruatha ] |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Unknown_Enemy I believe Oleg was talking about the number of missles vs SDI. Well that is what I read from it. So with not enough missles their program becomes obsolete vs SDI.
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
Is it just me, or do some of you worry that very low yield devices will make it more likly that someone will use one? |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Amazing how far a thread can go in 24 hours...
Tell me, Ruatha, have you ever read Heinlein's Starship Troopers? What do you think of the way he portrays the use of pain as a moral deterent (in both children and adults) in that novel? I will qualify my statement by saying that I don't agree with the evolutionary basis he uses for that theory, but there seems to be a recognition of the non-rationality in people that sometimes can only be restrained by non-rational means. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
an interesting book starship troopers.
that government was scary. A combination of Hitlerism and Stalinism with a little bit of Sparta. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
When I was younger I liked Heinlein but now I don't find them entertaining, "Friday", "The cat who", "Lazarus long", "have spacesuit" etc etc, many of them where quite pubertal, (So I can see why I liked them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) "Starship troopers" was a bit different I think but still, didn't it have that boy gets attractive girl story that most Heinlein books centers around? When I read it that was propably what interested me most I guess, will have to reread it someday. I saw the movie but it didn't remind me all that much of the book, only superficial, but then i don't recall the book all that much do I http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif [ July 26, 2003, 19:18: Message edited by: Ruatha ] |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
But in doubt, I edited/deleted my previous post. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Tesco - Are you refering to the government as portrayed in the "movie" (note scare quotes indicating my abject refusal to grant that piece of bantha fodder any positive relation to the book), or the one in the book? The government in the book was specifically stated by one of the characters to be almost identical to America's present system, except you had to be a discharged veteran to vote. What's so "totalitarian" about that?
Ruatha - First, there was no "boy gets girl" theme in Troopers. Yes, Juan was attracted to Carmen, but nothing came of it in the book and it leaves their relationship totally unresolved. Second, to jar your memory, in Troopers corporal punishment was not only accepted and practiced in childraising, but also in the criminal justice system. Jail time for non-capital crimes was replaced with public floggings (alluded to numerous times in the book, and even endured by the main character on one occasion). The idea was that pain and humiliation were the best ways to inculcate social behavior when appeals to reason were exhausted (which Heinlein would set at a far lower bar than most today IMHO). |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
edited and deleted due to misanderstanding.
[ July 26, 2003, 20:11: Message edited by: Unknown_Enemy ] |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
But in doubt, I edited/deleted my previous post.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I missed your first Posts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif What I mean is if SDI can shoot down for example 100 missiles, China' nuclear arsenal would become useless, they have only dozens or so missiles. Not sure about France, it may have more missiles. This is the major problem with SDI, IMHO. It may prompt creation of more nukes then there is now on the Earth. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
But in doubt, I edited/deleted my previous post.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I missed your first Posts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif What I mean is if SDI can shoot down for example 100 missiles, China' nuclear arsenal would become useless, they have only dozens or so missiles. Not sure about France, it may have more missiles. This is the major problem with SDI, IMHO. It may prompt creation of more nukes then there is now on the Earth.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You guys need to think it through a little further. If 1000 ICBM fly and all get shot down, the human race has very few years to live. All of that material will contaminate the atmosphere. And Plutonium is the deadliest substance known to man. SDI if for the third world bastards like North Korea. It will remove much of the power they expected to gain from deploying their weapons. SDI is already deployed by the way. The new Standard II missile has the ability to catch and shoot down ICBM during early boost. So long as the distance between the launch points is short and detections is immediate. The Standard III will extend the range quite a bit, but will still require rapid deployment on launch notice. A look at the sea around Korea will show a couple of Aegis cruisers, they are not just there to piss the NK’s off. The main thing that SDI is doing for now, is funding research. The first beam weapons will probably come from this work. America has about a 10-20 year lead in weapons systems over the rest of the world. This gap will replace our atomic warheads as the deterrent of the next fifty years and beyond. BTW, did any of you catch the commissioning of the Ronald Reagan a few weeks ago? It is a little strange to look at with its redesigned island. [ July 27, 2003, 01:54: Message edited by: Thermodyne ] |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
I stand corrected it was 6th Army. But the documents are public now, go check the Archives. The Soviet government was putting the pieces in place for a negotiated peace. When the British found out they came screaming to Washington.
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
No question, total nuclear war is the end of the mankind. I know very well the actual reason behind SDI is a noble one and has nothing to do with underminding the world security. However, that can become a side effect and a very serious one. OK, US will become secure against Noth Korea missiles.
But take a place of Chinese Gensek (sorry, don't know his name). How can he be sure it was not just a ruse to nullify China' arsenal ?? His first and totally justified reaction would be to review and modernize his nuclear deterrant. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
Battle of Stalingrad was an important moment in WWII, but its fall could not imperill USSR in a bit. I was born not far from Stalingrad (300 miles up the Volga river). There is NOTHING to the east from Stalingrad. Just Kazakh steppe with the population density of Australia Nothern Territories. There is no reason whatsoever to surrender. Just take it into perspective: suppose Germany build a bridge to US or dry out Atlantic. In the first year, US heroicaly defends Washington and New York but lose Boston and Atlanta. Next year, Germany changes the direction, capture Atlanta and attack Saint Louis (sp. sorry.) The rational is of course to cut off the Texas oil fields. Once Germans crosses Mississipi, American President sidently surrende all states East from the river and moves to LA. Does it makes any sense whatsoever ??? BTW, Caspian oil was extremely important for 3rd Reich but not as much as to USSR. Tatarstan and Bashkirstan oil was at plenty. Loss of Stalingrad would have a very small effect on the Russian economy in 1942. [ July 27, 2003, 04:17: Message edited by: oleg ] |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
The loss of Stalingrad would have had a much more psychological effect on the Russian people, not an economic one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
It was a symbol, thats why.
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
Battle of Stalingrad was an important moment in WWII, but its fall could not imperill USSR in a bit. I was born not far from Stalingrad (300 miles up the Volga river). There is NOTHING to the east from Stalingrad. Just Kazakh steppe with the population density of Australia Nothern Territories. There is no reason whatsoever to surrender. Just take it into perspective: suppose Germany build a bridge to US or dry out Atlantic. In the first year, US heroicaly defends Washington and New York but lose Boston and Atlanta. Next year, Germany changes the direction, capture Atlanta and attack Saint Louis (sp. sorry.) The rational is of course to cut off the Texas oil fields. Once Germans crosses Mississipi, American President sidently surrende all states East from the river and moves to LA. Does it makes any sense whatsoever ??? BTW, Caspian oil was extremely important for 3rd Reich but not as much as to USSR. Tatarstan and Bashkirstan oil was at plenty. Loss of Stalingrad would have a very small effect on the Russian economy in 1942.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Army group south would have crossed and driven into the flank of the soviets massed in front of 6th. With no room to move, it would not have been good for the soviets. Then 6th would have been in position to drive north and attack moscow from the south east as the froces in front of the city drive west. A good general could have made a fight of it, but this was not the issue. Stalin was not secure in Moscow. Saving his government had become more important than winning the war. In the end, the US gave him billions of dollars in aid, so that he would continue the fight. Many of the items sent were valued at pennies on the dollar so that the US people would not realize how much was being sent. Sorry, the US archives are not on line, but I will look up my notes and forward them. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
A minor point on the battle, it was the Italians that folded and allowed the Soviets to flank 6th to the north, then the Romanians folded in the south. By then the weather did not allow the German air power and mechanized mobility to become a factor. Not to mention that German armor was rotting in pastures while the crews fought as infantry. The Italians and Romanians should have been in the city mopping up while 6th was across the river acting as an anvil for army group south. 6th did actually put pathfinders across the river early on, but the opportunity to cross in mass was allowed to slip away. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
The problem with the summer campaigns of 42 were that the objectives were too great for Army Group Centre and Army Group South to complete.
The troops were still recovering from the winter battles. Runstead, Guidarian. Fired. Tank production was still around 400 a month. Now Hitler wished for chassises to be used to mount motors/ fixed guns ( which competed against regular tank chassises ) By summer 42 only 4500 tanks had been built. ( This shows you that the German Govn't underestimated the strenght of the tank and its role ) Russia was building half of that number a month and increasing. Army Group Centre goal after Stalingrad was to push south. I guess what i am saying is the the goals set in stone by the okh and hitler were unattainable with the standing army in 42. Had the city fallen in the month of Novemember The Russian Armies would have been forced to attack the northern and southern flanks earlier. I believe the outcome would have been the same. As the option of manoverablilty had been removed from the german field commanders. And this is a very important decission to be analyzized while looking at what if's. The German Military was streched beyond its capacity in 42. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
I'm sorry Oleg. It's normal for people to feel pride and all in their country. But realistically the war came very close to being a disaster for Russia. Our discussion was not meant to insult you or your country. There is no shame in admiting it. In fact you can be that much more proud that despite how bad things were they prevailed.
The loss of Stalingrad wouldn't actually have been as devastating as the loss of the soldiers defending it. Moscow is the same way. Once you capture the armies and the cities in a war, it's over. You said yourself, there was nothing east of Stalingrad. The Soviet government may not have offically capitulated, but with no more armies or or industrial capacity west of the Kamchatka peninsula, and no effective means of transportation accross the vast middle of the country except for a few easily defended or destroyed roads and railways, they would have been irrelevant to the events of the rest of the war in europe. Likely there would have been resistance movements and pockets of figthing, as there were in all the occupied countries. But without outside support those are merely distractions. Geoschmo |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
You could argue that if this happened he would have still had to protect his flank from an invasion from France. But if the western allies had not held firm over Poland who was an ally, why would they have done so over Russia who wasn't? Geoschmo [ July 27, 2003, 14:02: Message edited by: geoschmo ] |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
I thought it was all moved east in case Moscow would fall. Wasn't the Soviet army bad trained and under equipped? In that case it wouldn't be very hard for Soviet to fill the ranks again as they had a vast population to recruit from. So I also belive that even if Stalingrad and Moscow had fallen the Russians would have eventually recaptured it. (We've fought them all our history until we stopped fighting almost 200 years ago (our Last war was with Russia, and when they set foot on Swedish soil we realized war wasn't for us....) , and they've always retaken everything we've occupied, even if it took them hundreds of years to do it sometimes!) [ July 27, 2003, 14:48: Message edited by: Ruatha ] |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
I've seen this discussion among many wargamers. The consensus seems to be that the Germans could have won IF they had planned for a 2-year campaign from the start. By spring 1942 they still had the upper hand in the East, but the chances for victory were remote.
For a good East Front simulation on the computer, try Gary Grigsby's War in Russia. It is too large and complex even for me, but some of you might like it. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
The location of Tankagrad was chosen because it was far enough east to avoid German air power, but still close enouhg to support the defenders of the western Russian cities. If those cites had fallen and the armies captured or destroyed there would have been nothing between the Germans and the relocated factories. They would have been destroyed by waves of German bombers taking off from the captured airfields east of Moscow. There would have been nothing to move farther east, and nowhere suitable to place it. Even if there were the Russians would have nothing to slow the German persuit. You can move an armored division faster then you can a factory. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif As poorly prepared as the Russian army was at the begining of the war, it was still the cream of the crop that they had available. Some training is better then none, and with no industrial capacity at all there would be no way to equip them. Determination and patriotic ferver won't do much to stop a bullet. You have to have something to fight back with. Hammers and scythes against Tanks and machine guns isn't going to do much. And actually east of Moscow there was no vast population. As oleg alluded to it's mostly undeveloped wilderness and rural areas. At least that was the case during the time we are talking about. I don't know if it's much different now or not. Geoschmo [ July 27, 2003, 15:18: Message edited by: geoschmo ] |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
With the number of people around the world that hate the US and the (seemingly) unending number of people who are willing to give their life in order to take lives and cause destruction, I'd say THAT is the "delivery system" we (speaking from a US POV now) should fear. And, THAT'S a hard "delivery system" to halt. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
With the number of people around the world that hate the US and the (seemingly) unending number of people who are willing to give their life in order to take lives and cause destruction, I'd say THAT is the "delivery system" we (speaking from a US POV now) should fear. And, THAT'S a hard "delivery system" to halt.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The shipping container bomb is much worried about. Buried under a stack of other containers, it would be very hard to detect. That is why we need to begin to look at the threat from a different angle. The only defense is deterrent. We return the favor 1000 fold. You’re not actually from any one country, no problem, we have more than enough to go around. And let’s not forget that if NY or LA, or even Baltimore were to be nuked, there would be no need for smart bombs. We would be back in the business of making civilian populations suffer. If it were a chemical/biological attack, our stated policy is that we will respond with our nuclear arsenal. Do any of you have any idea of how bad it would be if a several kiloton device went off in Baltimore harbor? How many people live between there and Boston? Where would they be moved to? SDI is not intended to stop terrorist, other than if they were to seize a silo somewhere. Its intent is to reduce the diplomatic influence that small nuclear arsenals offer to the third world. Korea has a little leverage because they can put a weapon on top of a missile. The greater the range of the weapon, the greater the influence. What they don’t realize is that we are old hands at this game. Question, if an Ohio class sub were to pull up to a coral atoll, and declare itself a county. Where would this new country rank as a nuclear power? And America has how many Ohio’s? |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Nope, but it will limit the support that other nations are willing to give to them. It will take much more than deterrence to protect America, but I don’t think we are ready to accept that much protection.
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
And your solution would be?
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
People do not become terrorists for fun. Most people would need a serious grievance against someone before they take the step. As for soulutions: Ask the British, they have some success getting rid of the terrorism in/from Northern Ireland. They did not get it by lining up a random selection of people and shoot them each time somebody blows a bomb. The Germans tried that tactic in occupied Europe during WW2. It didn't work then, it don't work now. Very few people will have trouble accepting "police" type actions agains terrorists, but random return violence is the sure path to more violence.
|
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
If you ask me, the British, along with all the other Colonial powers, created this mess we're in. I hardly believe that asking them for advise is the best way to go at this. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
They become terrorists because they have a need to free themselves from occupation, from tyranny, or because they are taught that it is the honorable thing to do. And then there are some that are just plain anarchists. In the situation we have now, the terrorism is state sponsored. This requires that we bring force to bear on the states involved.
As this war, and it is a war, go on America will sacrifice some of its freedoms and become a more difficult place to attack. Then more and more often the attacks will occur on foreign soil. When your oil supply becomes a target, will your country sit back and not respond? Also, the main ***** of the 9-11 crew was that Americans were defiling holy ground and polluting the Islamic culture. As long as they have this view, there will be no way to dissuade them. Islamic culture is anti human rights. The world is not going to toss out 100 years of technology and advances in the human condition and adopt a feudal way of life to appease these bastards. And America will not let the Islamic world push Israel into the sea, so that problem will also be with us for the next generation or so. So again I ask, what would you suggest as a more fitting solution. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
TerranC:
I couldn't agree more, many of todays problems are leftovers from the days of colonalism and blatant imperialism. But it seems like the British actualy have learned something these Last few years. [ July 28, 2003, 02:50: Message edited by: primitive ] |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Thermo:
First: Where do you get the information from that all/most terrorism are state sponsored. Proof / links would be in order. Second: We are already on the Al Queada list of priority targets. Probably due to our guys beeing in the first line at the Bora-Bora caves. One thing is for sure though, if the bombs start to go off here, we will not stoop to random bombing of innocent people. Third: Your right, the Israel/Palestina problem have to be fixed somehow. It would not require pushing Isreal into the Mediteranian, but it would take large concessions from Israel (giving up the settlements on the West Bank, restore water rights and so on), and it would cost a lot of money. And terrorism would not stop instantly. Many of those who had already taken the step would continue on their path, regardless of what happens. But recruitement would be harder. Solution: Start fix the problems, stop creating more. Fight against the terrorists, not their mothers and childrens. Work on your defences. Tough it out. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
build a big dome over the usa and seal it shut for a few hundred years. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
thermo i think it is you who hates and/or misunderstands islamic culture not islamic culture who hates you. Terrorism is rare. Not an everyday occuance. It is the fear of terrorism that is an everyday occurance for some. I speak this from being from Nothern Ireland. |
Re: OT:US don\'t qualify for EU membership, don\'t spank children, WW2 history.
Quote:
As to terror not being a daily occurrence, it is only the hard work of the democratic world that prevents this. If the Islamic nations of the world decided to prosecute terrorism and those who preach it, the Islamic terrorism would subside. If we in the west continue to absorb the blows, it will get worse. War is diplomacy by other means. Terrorism is war against the innocent. Now I pose a question. What reason did the 9-11 crew have for their attacks? What was America doing that was causing them so much harm that they needed to go to war? IMHO, their goals were not as is stated in the media. |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:05 PM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2025, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.