Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, I think you are a little off with this statement-

The way the game engine works, an empire's mines are swept one at a time, soo 100 minesweeping capability is applied each time. Therefore, a player is protected against needing to sweep more that 100 at a point no matter how many empires lay mines there.

I do remember asking this specifically a while back. And in all my games, I've seen it work this way, IIRC.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

I can say from experience that if there are more than 100 enemy mines in a sector from 2 or more enemy empires, having 100 minsweepers will sweep the first 100 and your ship(s) WILL be damaged by the remainder. I have seen this on more than one occasion. Of course, if your fleet can sweep more than the number of mines in the sector, they will all be swept, obviously.

Slick.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Run tests. Trade Saves.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Gotta back Slick up on this one. In the Challenge Match, I've run into more than 100 mines in a sector twice now and taken a lot of damage from the ones above 100 that were left.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

If you want to discuss the mines further, please take it to a different thread.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Why ? They address a VERY important point which was actually introduced by you as a "gamey" or "exploits" tactic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

No Oleg. This thread is not for discussions of what is gamey or what is not gamey. It is for compiling a list of what MIGHT BE considered gamey by some people. If you want to talk about what is gamey or not in your opinion, do it elsewhere.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

So back to list complilation...

1. Trading with AIs.
2. Building multiple training facilities on each planet in a sector (moons) to multiply the training rate.
3. Retroseries building.
4. Surrendering to allies to merge empires together.
5. Surrendering to an ally or other 3rd party to keep what is left of your empire from going to the enemy.
6. Surrendering your empire when you just want to leave the game.
7. Surrendering to the empire attacking you.
8. Intelligence projects.
9. Gifting/trading planets.
10. Gifting a planet for the primary purpose of keeping an another player alive.
11. Tech sharing.
12. Gifting/trading population.
13. Gifting/trading colony techs.
14. Min/maxing empire setup.
15. Allies laying mines in the same sector to get more than 100 mines in it.
16. Turtling yourself into a corner using Warp Point closers and System Gravitational Shields.
17. Declaring war on an ally and attacking at the same turn.
18. Moving ships over enemy planets and then declaring war to bypass mine fields.
19. Email diplomacy between players when races haven't met in the game yet.
20. Gifting/trading ships.
21. Gifting ships to an ally to get around the maximum ship limits.
22. Allied victory or Last Man Standing victory conditions must be chosen and declared, or there will usually be some friction towards the end of the game.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

I think you probably do want to add the Talisman, as it's come up in this context. So has combining Talisman with low aggressiveness.

How about annoying/deceptive shipsets?

How about ramming?

PvK

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Oleg I created a thread to talk about this list....

So not to cluter up the list http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">First of all, why you are so rude ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Second, you want to compile a list of what MIGHT BE considered gamey by some people. OK, building better ships than mine - it is definetly gamey by my standarts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Wonna to include it ?

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Sorry, tesco, you posted while I was typing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I am ejecting myself from here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Well... I have only typed that post 10 or so times already... sorry for seeming rude.

About building better ships, that has nothing to do with gameyness, just skill.

PvK, check here about ramming.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

1. Trading with AIs.
2. Building multiple training facilities on each planet in a sector (moons) to multiply the training rate.
3. Retroseries building.
4. Surrendering to allies to merge empires together.
5. Surrendering to an ally or other 3rd party to keep what is left of your empire from going to the enemy.
6. Surrendering your empire when you just want to leave the game.
7. Surrendering to the empire attacking you.
8. Intelligence projects.
9. Gifting/trading planets.
10. Gifting a planet for the primary purpose of keeping an another player alive.
11. Tech sharing.
12. Gifting/trading population.
13. Gifting/trading colony techs.
14. Min/maxing empire setup.
15. Allies laying mines in the same sector to get more than 100 mines in it.
16. Turtling yourself into a corner using Warp Point closers and System Gravitational Shields.
17. Declaring war on an ally and attacking at the same turn.
18. Moving ships over enemy planets and then declaring war to bypass mine fields.
19. Email diplomacy between players when races haven't met in the game yet.
20. Gifting/trading ships.
21. Gifting ships to an ally to get around the maximum ship limits.
22. Allied victory or Last Man Standing victory conditions must be chosen and declared, or there will usually be some friction towards the end of the game.
23. Talismans.
24. Using annoying/deceptive shipsets and informing people of what ship set you will be using prior to game start.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

A few possibles you may want to add:

Emergency building when there is no emergency.

Playing on a map you made yourself.

Selecting low ship and unit limits.

If these are considered gamey, there are very few proponents so you may want to skip them.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

So have we got them all now?

1. Trading with AIs.
2. Building multiple training facilities on each planet in a sector (moons) to multiply the training rate.
3. Retroseries building.
4. Surrendering to allies to merge empires together.
5. Surrendering to an ally or other 3rd party to keep what is left of your empire from going to the enemy.
6. Surrendering your empire when you just want to leave the game.
7. Surrendering to the empire attacking you.
8. Intelligence projects.
9. Gifting/trading planets.
10. Gifting a planet for the primary purpose of keeping another player alive.
11. Tech sharing.
12. Gifting/trading population.
13. Gifting/trading colony techs.
14. Min/maxing empire setup.
15. Allies laying mines in the same sector to get more than 100 mines in it.
16. Turtling yourself into a corner using Warp Point closers and System Gravitational Shields.
17. Declaring war on an ally and attacking at the same turn.
18. Moving ships over enemy planets and then declaring war to bypass mine fields.
19. Email diplomacy between players when races haven't met in the game yet.
20. Gifting/trading ships.
21. Gifting ships to an ally to get around the maximum ship limits.
22. Allied victory or Last Man Standing victory conditions must be chosen and declared, or there will usually be some friction towards the end of the game.
23. Talismans.
24. Using annoying/deceptive shipsets and informing people of what ship set you will be using prior to game start.
25. Emergency building when there is no emergency.

[ July 30, 2003, 08:14: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Pre-arranged alliances? (i.e. the Eastern Bloc incident)

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How could I forget? My very first hosted game was ruined by this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

1. Trading with AIs.
2. Building multiple training facilities on each planet in a sector (moons) to multiply the training rate.
3. Retroseries building.
4. Surrendering to allies to merge empires together.
5. Surrendering to an ally or other 3rd party to keep what is left of your empire from going to the enemy.
6. Surrendering your empire when you just want to leave the game.
7. Surrendering to the empire attacking you.
8. Intelligence projects.
9. Gifting/trading planets.
10. Gifting a planet for the primary purpose of keeping another player alive.
11. Tech sharing.
12. Gifting/trading population.
13. Gifting/trading colony techs.
14. Min/maxing empire setup.
15. Allies laying mines in the same sector to get more than 100 mines in it.
16. Turtling yourself into a corner using Warp Point closers and System Gravitational Shields.
17. Declaring war on an ally and attacking at the same turn.
18. Moving ships over enemy planets and then declaring war to bypass mine fields.
19. Email diplomacy between players when races haven't met in the game yet.
20. Gifting/trading ships.
21. Gifting ships to an ally to get around the maximum ship limits.
22. Allied victory or Last Man Standing victory conditions must be chosen and declared, or there will usually be some friction towards the end of the game.
23. Talismans.
24. Using annoying/deceptive shipsets and informing people of what ship set you will be using prior to game start.
25. Emergency building when there is no emergency.
26. Pre-arranged alliances in non-explicitly team games.

[ July 30, 2003, 18:45: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Ruins.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Even I consider this to be gamey... and the interface will allow it...

Offering tech you do not possess in a trade! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

The game does not verify what you offer, you can offer anything, and receive a bunch of tech for nothing. It's the honor system.

Most times when this happens, this can be viewed as a breach of honor, and that player will not be liked very much.

Gray areas do apply, like offering a gift for expectation of a gift in return... but before the return gift can be offered, your empire relations go sour, and you go to war, which kind of ruins the whole gift exchanging thing.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Again, your opinions on the gameyness of an action are not for this thread. Only suggestions for the list. See the Talk thread for my response.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Whoops... OK I got it now.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Using an empty (no population) colonizer to:
-acquire ruin tech in hostile territory
-set up an outpost in hostile territory
-prevent enemy capture of a planet, especially a desirable planet. (Usually done in disputed territory.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Is this true? ..or are you talking about levels? ISTR that any tech I don't have (for instance, a colonizing tech), doesn't show up in my "Give" list; only in the "I Want" list.

Or am I losing it again.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I'm at work so don't have it in front of me...

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You aren't losing it. He's talking about levels. ie. offering 6 levels of Ship construction when you only have 5. The other guy thinks he's getting Battle Cruisers, when all he gets is Cruisers, or nothing at all if he already has Cruisers.

Geoschmo

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

It occured to me that #1 might need to be expanded/clarified to:

1. Trading with AIs or with human empires that you know are currently under AI control.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Any more suggestions?

1. Trading with AIs or with human empires that you know are currently under AI control.
2. Building multiple training facilities on each planet in a sector (moons) to multiply the training rate.
3. Retroseries building.
4. Surrendering to allies to merge empires together.
5. Surrendering to an ally or other 3rd party to keep what is left of your empire from going to the enemy.
6. Surrendering your empire when you just want to leave the game.
7. Surrendering to the empire attacking you.
8. Intelligence projects.
9. Gifting/trading planets.
10. Gifting a planet for the primary purpose of keeping another player alive.
11. Tech sharing.
12. Gifting/trading population.
13. Gifting/trading colony techs.
14. Min/maxing empire setup.
15. Allies laying mines in the same sector to get more than 100 mines in it.
16. Turtling yourself into a corner using Warp Point closers and System Gravitational Shields.
17. Declaring war on an ally and attacking at the same turn.
18. Moving ships over enemy planets and then declaring war to bypass mine fields.
19. Email diplomacy between players when races haven't met in the game yet.
20. Gifting/trading ships.
21. Gifting ships to an ally to get around the maximum ship limits.
22. Allied victory or Last Man Standing victory conditions must be chosen and declared, or there will usually be some friction towards the end of the game.
23. Talismans.
24. Using annoying/deceptive shipsets and informing people of what ship set you will be using prior to game start.
25. Emergency building when there is no emergency.
26. Pre-arranged alliances in non-explicitly team games.
27. Using an empty (no population) colonizer to:
-acquire ruin tech in hostile territory
-set up an outpost in hostile territory
-prevent enemy capture of a planet, especially a desirable planet. (Usually done in disputed territory.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How is that gamey? You overpay for it later with the 25% cool-off rate, and overall your build rate decreases when using E-build.

It would be like saying you're not allowed to overwork your planets in SE3.

[ August 25, 2003, 15:24: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Too many Posts to see if this was mentioned yet. I personally like this one:

Laying 99 mines on a WP (game limit 100) then arriving with another minelayer the next turn and laying an additional 20-30 mines, thus beating the 100 mine limit.

But let's face it, 90% of these things "some may consider cheating" are simply using the game to it's full potential. Like tech trading. You may consider it cheating to ally with someone and quickly max out eachother's tech, but in reality it's good practice. Now, once the list here is complete, I suggest going to Malfador and presenting it to them and then ask them to cross out those items in the list THEY do not consider cheating and part of the game.

Just an idea.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Just a quick heads up. Exploit removed in latest patch. 'SOk to miss it. This list is long. But the new gamey tactic is two allies laying 100 mines each against a common enemy. Not gamey IMHO, maybe they need to be there for use against each other?

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">How is that gamey? You overpay for it later with the 25% cool-off rate, and overall your build rate decreases when using E-build.

It would be like saying you're not allowed to overwork your planets in SE3.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Again, this is not a list of things that are gamey, but things that might be gamey. Some people consider it gamey, so it is on the list.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Again, comments on whether something is gamey or not are not for this thread. This is only to collect what some people consider gamey. Please make these comments elsewhere.

[ August 25, 2003, 19:26: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Any more suggestions?

1. Trading with AIs or with human empires that you know are currently under AI control.
2. Building multiple training facilities on each planet in a sector (moons) to multiply the training rate.
3. Retroseries building.
4. Surrendering to allies to merge empires together.
5. Surrendering to an ally or other 3rd party to keep what is left of your empire from going to the enemy.
6. Surrendering your empire when you just want to leave the game.
7. Surrendering to the empire attacking you.
8. Intelligence projects.
9. Gifting/trading planets.
10. Gifting a planet for the primary purpose of keeping another player alive.
11. Tech sharing.
12. Gifting/trading population.
13. Gifting/trading colony techs.
14. Min/maxing empire setup.
15. Allies laying mines in the same sector to get more than 100 mines in it.
16. Turtling yourself into a corner using Warp Point closers and System Gravitational Shields.
17. Declaring war on an ally and attacking at the same turn.
18. Moving ships over enemy planets and then declaring war to bypass mine fields.
19. Email diplomacy between players when races haven't met in the game yet.
20. Gifting/trading ships.
21. Gifting ships to an ally to get around the maximum ship limits.
22. Allied victory or Last Man Standing victory conditions must be chosen and declared, or there will usually be some friction towards the end of the game.
23. Talismans.
24. Using annoying/deceptive shipsets and informing people of what ship set you will be using prior to game start.
25. Emergency building when there is no emergency.
26. Pre-arranged alliances in non-explicitly team games.
27. Using an empty (no population) colonizer to:
-acquire ruin tech in hostile territory
-set up an outpost in hostile territory
-prevent enemy capture of a planet, especially a desirable planet. (Usually done in disputed territory.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

28.Playing the game....that is SOOOOO gamey!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Do cheap Posts count as gamey? Or is that an exploit?

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

how about taking advantage of turn replys? Like you attack someone and loose and for some reason, the turn is replayed and you make it differently.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

And looking in other people`s empire when they forgot to put on password.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Hmm. I don't think any of these are too cheesey unless used against the AI. And I'm making a mental note for our next common pbw game. You can't capture a planet with no population?

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Not with troops. There's a bug which makes the troop transport not approach and drop troops on a world with no population. But it's easy enough to just glass the colony and then colonize it yourself. It may be a "cheezy" tactic, but it's not a very effective one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

So many of those show the "young lion" thing. To consider anything short of head-2-head combat as a cheesy tactic. I tend to win most of my games by diplomacy, even games which dont have diplomacy options in the game.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Please stop posting discussions in this thread. As per the original post, it is only for gathering a list of what may or may not be considered gamey. For the purposes of the list, it does not matter if you do not consider a particular item to be gamey, someone else did.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Are you still accepting suggestions for this list?
How about planting star distroyers at everyone's star but your own, enemies and non enemies alike and distroying them all at once. Done under cloak.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

That is more of a sneaky tactic than gamey, isn't it? Gamey is more like an exploit of what seems to be an intended rule.

And yes, the list is always open.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Okay, mis understood gamey. Thanks.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

I have for the list if it applies.

Luring your Ally to bring a huge fleet into a system to "help you" then blowing up the star destroying his fleet.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

The biggest complaint I have is the groups of people who bring pre established alliances into large PBW games. If it is announced beforehand, that's fine. But when it becomes apparent 20 turn in that several of the players are pre aligned, it is really pushing the limits of ethical game play. And to make it worse, these are often allegedly roomies and kin and often using the same IP address.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

28. Turtling, then holding a system gravitational shield in the queue with one turn remaining. Scrap your existing shield, open a warppoint, send ships through, close the warppoint, then let the shield finish.

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

First this:

Then 2 posts later, this:

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Methinks there is no contradiction between those two posts: Fyron does not wish posts saying that "entry 748 isn't gamey", but he is always open to suggestions for further entries.

So, posts shouldn't discuss already existing entries, but they should add new items not currently on the list.

*Gets out of the Ramming Geo's way*

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

You wouldn't be saying that Fryon made posts that are inconsistant would you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

Execpt that he did make a statement of judgement saying a particular post was "Sneaky" instead of Gamey, in direct contradiction to what he had previously requested. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Gamey Tactics and Bug Exploits Thread
 

As the organizer of the list, I feel it is more polite to tell the person that a posted tactic does not qualify as gamey, rather than just ignoring said person. Gamey tactics must have some element of seeming like cheating or being really cheesey. I am not going to add every sneaky but perfectly valid tactic to the list. As Alneyan stated, there is a big difference between me telling a person that a tactic does not qualify as gamey and people posting contrary opinions of gamey items. If I did not reject non-gamey items, we could have literally anything on the list... We could even add "being Geoschmo." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif There is no contradiction here, as I was not discussing the gameyness of the issue, merely rejecting it as potentially gamey.

There is this one on the list:

16. Turtling yourself into a corner using Warp Point closers and System Gravitational Shields.

Perhaps a 16a instead.