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Re: Important Math Question

When you have an infinity over infinity, try L'hopital's rule from calculus:)

Re: Important Math Question

An infinite quantity divided by two gives two infinite quantities. Example: the number of points in any volume is infinite. Divide a sphere in two, and you have two hemispheres, and both contain an infinite number of points.

An infinite number of something is not the same as every instance of a thing, in mathematics.

PvK

Re: Important Math Question

Sorry but I think the universe is finite. The Last I heard is that the universe is expanding and when it is done expanding, it will contract upon itself because of the pull of dark matter.
Eventually probably leading to another big bang.

The only other theory has the universe expanding until the time when even electrons will decay and matter falls apart and dissapates (heat death) although it's really the lack of heat. This end makes me sad. Boo hoo!

Now I ask you, If/when the universe starts contracting, will time run backwards?
Yeah I really didn't want to get in the middle of the infinite terminology photon debate thingy but really the Last I heard was the universe is finite.
Oh and I saw from space.com that the "average" color of the universe is Biege?
oh well "To infinity and beyond!"

Re: Important Math Question

The question remains, what was the universe before it became the universe? Its the chicken and the egg question but on a universal scale.

So nothing exsisted before the universe? If that is true, then the universe could not have been formed. Zero + any number is still zero. But 1 + any number and you have a new number.

I often wonder if we are the egg before the Chicken, and one day our egg will hatch into a new world and the cycle of life will begin all over.

Re: Important Math Question

Yeah, that's it.
My head hurts. Oweee!

Re: Important Math Question

dark matter pushes. i think.

what's L'hopital's? rule?

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Therefore infinity divided by infinity is simultaneously equal to infinity, and 1

1 of: infinity

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Imagine trying to halve all the possible idea's in the world - both halves would still be limitlessly big, hence infinite.

My head hurts.

now think about the fact that both infinite halves would be smaller than the whole...

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Calculations involving infinity tend to break down into paradoxes.

i think that's because we try to fit infinite into the definitions and calculations we've developed for finity.

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1. The infinite number of photons in the universe have to all be in the same place; just where you happen to be standing. Besides being an incredible piece of bad luck, this would be quite difficult to time. And if you managed it somehow, you'd be left with an infinite sized universe empty of photons, except where you are.

nope, would only need a fraction of the photons...

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Ignore me.

nope. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

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Good points, and certainly true for a universe which is expanding at an accelerating rate, as our universe currently seems to be. Of course, in such a universe, the volume that we can interact with in any way is certainly very finite, so you throw away much of the appeal of having an infinite universe.

who says we're the only big bang?

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Zero + any number is still zero. But 1 + any number and you have a new number.

i think you mean *.

and now, about my day...this is much of what i remember...truthfully...boxes...and pain...boxes...and pain...boxes...and pain...boxes...and pain...boxes...and pain...boxes...and pain...boxes...and pain...boxes...and pain...boxes...and pain...boxes...and pain...boxes...and pain...boxes...and pain...boxes...and pain...boxes...and pain

[ November 05, 2003, 00:29: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: Important Math Question

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Originally posted by Atrocities:
Zero + any number is still zero.

0 + 2 = 2
You forget some important math there Atrocities?
0 * any number = 0

Re: Important Math Question

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what's L'hopital's? rule?

When you have the limit of a function a/b (where a and b are functions of the same variable, such as x) that is of the form 0/0, inf/inf, or inf/0, you can find the limit with d(a) / d(b). That is, the derivative of a divided by the derivative of b (not the derivative of a/b!).

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now think about the fact that both infinite halves would be smaller than the whole...

And yet both still infinite.

[ November 05, 2003, 01:19: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Important Math Question

Do you know anything about calculus? What limits and derivatives are?

Re: Important Math Question

well, i know what they are if your not talking about math. but math terms tend to have their own reality.

Re: Important Math Question

That are strictly based on "normal" reality, and vice versa... try googling for some intro to calculus site if you want to learn more.

Re: Important Math Question

This thread has an "astronomical" number of many weird incorrect statements in it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

What kind of new math is this?

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Originally posted by Atrocities:
...

So nothing exsisted before the universe? If that is true, then the universe could not have been formed. Zero + any number is still zero. But 1 + any number and you have a new number.
...

Dude, 0 + 1 = 1.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't notice this had been pointed out so many times before. There are a bunch of similar logic leaps earier, but uff, I should be programming.

PvK

[ November 05, 2003, 01:31: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: Important Math Question

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And yet both still infinite.

that was implied.

anyway, thanks. i don't think i'll try working my way through it till saturday, i'm tired, my brain is tired and my feet and my back are trying to kill me. i'm currently trying to pacify them by sitting down and not moving much.

Re: Important Math Question

Ok, math and logic are failing me. I must resort to poetry.

Infinite cosmos,
Half is equal to the whole.
Hot enough for you?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Important Math Question

I saw a show Last night on PBS. It was on Strings, SuperStrings and "M" theory. First I heard of M, but it sounded interesting. Our universe (or the one MOST of us are from) is modeled as a slice of bread. It was on a string construct called a "brane".

Anybody heard of this before?

Re: Important Math Question

Narf : boxes... back pain... are you working as a mover ?
The universe : There might have been another universe before the Big Bang, which collapsed in on itself. And another one before that, and so on. When ours begins to contract, time will not run backwards. It has been established with reasonable certainty that our universe is finite and has the shape of a 5D sphere (considering time as the 4th dimension). No one knows what is 'outside' our universe because we cannot perceive this theoretical 5th dimension, but whatever it is out there, it probably doesn't follow the physical laws of our universe.

Re: Important Math Question

What if the universe is nothing more than a temporal eruption of time into the realm of reality? That would imply that all of this, our entire universe and what we conceive as reality is nothing more than a phenominion of the greater unknown vastness that is the emptyness that fills the nothingness beyond our understanding of the cosmos.

Re: Important Math Question

Wouldn't it be an interesting thing to do if you could actually do it? Explore the universe in real time using some fancy super powered engines that allow you to go from point a to point b instantiously without the fear of being obliterated by some rogue asteroid or commet?