Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

But your taking it from them. If murder isn't stealing then copyright infringement isn't. Anyway, this will have to continue later. I have to be going.

[ November 28, 2003, 06:14: Message edited by: JayBdey ]

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

That is a horrible line of logic... copyright infringement is taking their intellectual property from them AND getting it for yourself. That is what stealing is, taking something from someone AND getting it for yourself (even if you give it to someone else...). Murdering someone is (in a gross misuse of the word take) "taking" someone's life, but you do not get their life in the process, just end it. So, it can not even possibly be considered to be any form of stealing.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

Over the years I have been in this same (or very similar) argument many times in many venues. Always those who want to take something intangible that they did not create (software, artwork, fiction, etc) and use it (or redistribute it, or sell it) without paying for it (or beyond the scope of the creator's permission if the creator distributed it for free) want to say that what they are doing is not stealing. Always those who actually create such things take a somewhat different view. Gee, I wonder why?

Spacebadger

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

hmmm, interesting debate going on here..

Does "Software Piracy" = 'stealing'?

Well, if it is then 'technically' speaking "Software Pirates" are only guilty of pety theft, and the law is quite lienient in their punishment of 'Pety Theft'. (Heck, the fine for pety theft is lower than the cost many games in some places, in fact if you can't pay the fine they will give you a place to sleep and feed you a few meals for your crime. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif )

"Software Piracy" is IMHO 'Copyright infringement' and involves the illegal use of intillectual property. 'Piracy' not only hurts the person who owns the copyright, but also hurts the game development industry. It also affects the tax dollar and therefore means that the government is also a victim which in turn means that society suffers the burden. Again, IMHO "Software Piracy" is NOT 'Stealing', It's much worse. There is no justification for "Software Piracy" period.

Nuf said, Cheers!

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">All the same can be said for physical theft of the same dollar value. If you want to use the "greater than" relation, that's not enough.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

Grand theft auto is still stealing... a matter of degree does not make something not be stealing.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

Which is better, XP or 2000?

As I use both I think I shall say this

They are both a piece of monkey crap http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Go Linux!!!

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

When I said "Piarcy is NOT 'Stealing', it's much worse." I obvoiusly failed to convey my feelings.

to use an analogy,.. to Steal = wet, to Pirate = Tidal Wave. Yes, to make everybody happy I must concur that a tidal wave is indeed wet. But it's so much more than 'just wet' calling it 'wet' does not do it justice.

see what I mean? no? ok then for the sake of not wanting to step on anyones toes, Piracy = Stealing. Further, stealing is a crime and all crimes should be punishable by death. (after all there is no 'degree' of crime, no 'gray area', you either do/did or don't/didn't where stealing is concerned. It makes perfect sense to have just one punishment for all crimes.)

If only life were that simple, there would be no need for lawyers.

babble, babble, boy I can sure babble. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

Jaybday,
There are many reasons to be careful Pirating software.
First there is your conscience. You have to live with yourself
Second: There is the potential run in with hypocracy. If it is ok for you to Pirate software then you have to allow that it is ok if someone some day takes you work and passes it off as their own. You know, maybe a paper you did in school or a quaterly report for the office or a truly great photograph you took or.... You would have to be a good boy and not protest. You would not want to be a hypocrit now would you?
Thrid: You would like to be trusted. You know full well it is considered wrong. It is blatently unethical. The moment an ethical person knows you have Pirated software will they ever be able to trust you?

Cheating on a spouse vs Pirating - Some would say noone gets hurt in either case. So, is it ok if your girlfriend cheats on you? You wouldn't mind would you? I mean what's the big deal? No one got hurt did they?
Your call.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">no grey area?
himnnn
ok what about abandon ware.
stuff that is still copywrigted but you cant buy it anywhere, is no longer being published, etc. etc. but coppying it is still (by law) ilegal.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

Stolen ideas, yeah I know something about that. When I was 12 years old I had an idea for a card game. I created a mock-up prototype and wrote down the rules etc. I called it "Plumber's Pipes" and sent it to Parker Brothers asking if they would be interested in marketing a game like this. They sent me a response (but kept my prototype) saying that they could not market such a game, they said they specialized in board games, not card games. Exactly 4 months later a new Parker Brother's game hit the store shelves. It was a card game called 'Waterworks' It was Exactly the same as the card game prototype I sent them but instead of a 'repair-card' they used a silly little metal wrench to indicate repairs. Boy was I one upset 12 year old, but there was nothing I could do. Later in life when I was into computers I decided to go back to this 'Plumber's pipes' idea and make a computer Version of the game. (this time I didn't send it to anyone, I just showed to my friends.) At about the same time that I finished my computer Version of 'Plumber's Pipes, a small company called LucasArts released a game called 'Pipedreams'. This time I couldn't blame anyone for stealing my idea, since it came out at virtually the same time as mine (about 2 weeks after actually) and making the game obviously took longer than that. Oh well, live and learn.

But I'm still not sure what lession I was supposed to learn? Such is life.

Can I babble or what? LOL

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

Your just making a copy of something. Stealing deprives the owner of use of the stolen goods, you can't "copy" a car. That is how they are different.

[ November 28, 2003, 19:51: Message edited by: JayBdey ]

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is how software has always been though... very few software packages are sold on a license that allows you to run them on multiple computers at once.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

Almost always such restrictions have been empty power grabs by contract lawyers which have been ignored in practice, however. Humane companies would not cause a stink, for instance, if you want to install, say, a game both on your desktop and your laptop, etc. XP goes one step further and actually tries to sabotage itself by analyzing your machine, using your Internet connection to phone home to the M$ Mother Ship, etc. That's not a practice I care to support by paying someone hundreds of dollars for XP. No way, Jose.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It has always worked perfectly for me. I have never had it fail to find a file I was searching for before (unless that file didn't exist, of course). And, it is hardly clunky...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> It always amazes me when someone uses "I never noticed a problem" as a counter-argument to "it didn't work for me". Trust us Fryon, there are cases, who knows why, when it just fails to find files that are there. I've tested and had XP search and find nothing, followed by another search program running the same search, which finds files.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Click the sort button for date again, and it reverses the order it sorts them.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">
Of course you can have it re-sort manually. That's not a fix, though, it's a known work-around.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Get the power toys and you can disable ALL of those folders; just set them to whatever folder you want (even on other drives!) and it stops using them altogether. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">
Good to know.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't recall ever seeing that. Can you elaborate?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">
Sure. You must've turned it off, but by default, every few days or weeks, XP decides to launch a wizard in the user's face, perhaps with a hateful cartoon character and cutesy "speach bubble", saying something like, "Hey, XP has noticed you haven't used some of your desktop icons in a while. Would you like to stop what you're doing, and go through a wizard that asks you about all of them, and gives an option to delete them?" Yeah, there's a way to turn it off, but it's just an example of the many annoying goofball innovations of XP.

[quote] </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> ...

Quote:

The annoying features I haven't figured out yet how to exorcise from the new "Start Christmas tree".

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just use the "Classic" start menu, and it is identical to the start menu in 2000 (and I think it is the same as in 98, but with the control panel stuff added, which is a good thing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">
I do that on my own XP box at work, but there is still some crud left over that is not on 2K or 98. And the extra 2K stuff isn't particularly useful, except for disabling as many as possible of the unwanted default processes that launch and waste resources and CPU.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is because you chose to set up the accessibility wizards when you installed the OS. Just remove them and that will stop. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">
Or that were set up by default. The one that keeps happening to me, even on systems where I've told it to stop, is the "Hey, you've been holding down Control for more than five seconds - would you like to enter Accessibility mode?" wizard which attacks and messes up what I was doing at the moment. I suppose it reoccurs because of the frequent "updates" which sometimes reset default system options, such as the existance and IE association of MS Outhouse Express.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

Best idea yet. (Though it's incredible that you'd write "Very simple fix" when referring to installing a second OS as a "solution" to a problem with the other OS.) In fact, that's what I have at home: one Win98SE partition, and zero XP. Works perfectly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

PvK

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

I've yet to find a problem with XP that I couldn't fix. I've never run into any of the problems mentioned. The search has always worked, I've never been bothered with the desktop cleanup wizard, and the "My" folders have always worked. And I have never had a major problem that caused real harm.

Why don't you guys like the new XP GUI? I think it's much better than the cold gray 9x GUI. I also like the new start menu.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sigh... you can steal ideas just as you can steal goods. It is a slightly different form of stealing, but it is still stealing.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

If someone has two cars and I steal one of them, then the owner now only has one car. If I make a copy of a song, the original still exists and is still usable.

Yes, they are different. It's just as illegal as stealing but it is a separate and different crime.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No... almost always such restrictions have been how software is sold. It has nothing to do with being humane. Note that I said RUN, not INSTALL. There is a world of difference between having a piece of software installed on two computers and only using one at a time, and then having that software installed on two computers and using both installs at the same time (such as pirating an OS by installing it on more than one computer).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That was not my "counter argument". My statement was just of the nature that you have experienced an uncommon problem.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You are multiple people? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have used the XP search extensively and it has never once failed to find a file that was there. I have used it on other computers without a hitch as well. You might have gotten your copy of XP from a OEM manufacturer that did something to the kernals to alter the search function.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is assuming that the order you want it sorted is the only correct order. They had to pick an order. That is not a bug in any shape or form.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm... I have never once turned that off, nor even heard of such a feature. Must only be in some Versions of XP home...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It is quite easy to customize what is in the start menu (especially easy to do in XP). Again, how you want it to look is most certainly not the "right" way to do it, nor the only way. Just because you don't like the default start meny does NOT mean that there is anything wrong with it, just that you don't like it and need to customize it.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have always seen the option to not install various windows components when installing XP. The accessibilty features are one of them.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You have been rather unlucky then, as it has always stayed disabled every time I have disabled it, and it stays disabled for everyone I know that uses XP.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can easily remove those two programs, and they do stay removed if you do so.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Abandoning the garbage that is the old DOS kernal is not a problem, it is a good idea! It was the cause of most 9x crashes. Of course programs written for an OS that is no longer in use are not going to be guaranteed to run well. The chains of legacy code have to be cut some time.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Your examples are irrelevant because they are trying to compare apples and oranges... repeating them 27 times is not going to change the fact that taking someone else's intellectual property without consent is stealing it. Let's get some dictionary definitions here:

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm... intellectual property... "to take the property of another wrongfully"... taking someone's intellectual property wrongfully is therefore stealing it.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This sounds like "Sticky Keys", which can be disabled completely by entering the Accessiblity Options within the Control Panel.

I had a similar problem with the Shift Key while playing Wolfenstein. I used the Shift Key for sprinting, so of course I would hold it down to keep running, and because of that the game would lock up and I would get a message from WinXP Pro asking me if I wanted to enable Caps Lock (or some such nonesense).

As for this debate on "what is" or "what isn't" stealing, the fact is is that your breaking the law by obtaining software through unlicensed avenues. Breaking the law is breaking the law, no matter how you cut it.

Downloading a ton of software off of Kazaa won't get you into trouble, since there's far too many people doing it for the law enforcement agenices to make a dent. Where you will get into trouble is by making those same files available for download by someone else. That's when you become an illegal software traffiker, and that's who the FBI, RCMP, and the other large Law Enforcement Agencies like to go after. All it takes is for you to put one illgotten file available for download to place you onto the criminal dartboard.

The person who gave you a copy of WinXP could find himself in serious trouble if the Police decided to take an interest (and if someone notified them) in his activites. Unfortunatley corruption starts at the top, so if I were the Police I'd be more apt to go after his Employer and their complete lack of control over their Employees, instead of the individual Employee. Incompetent Management breeds equally incompetent Employees. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

The Police are so overwhelmened, understaffed, and financially strapped that it's not worthwhile to go after any software Pirate unless it's someone traffiking software over $100,000, and even then it's not guaranteed.

Say all the negative things you want about the RIAA and their lawsuits, but at the very least they've gotten the act of digital copyright violation into the spotlight. What we need now though is to have a US-based Software Company take a hard, hard, hard stance against piracy and go after a small fish, and hammer them into permenant poverty and partial imprisonment. Slamming the crap out of some 18 Year old (and their negligant parents) would be a good start in getting the US Senate/Congress to increase Police budgets and enact tougher laws to stem piracy.

Just don't cry foul if the Police break your door down and arrest you for software piracy. Sooner or later the dam is going to break and the Police will be let loose. Wether it's an illegal copy of SEIV or WinXP Pro Enterprise, it's still illegal, and I'll be there laughing at you when the Judge sentances you into eternal financial destitution.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

The police can not ever possibly arrest everyone that has an illegal copy of software, music, movies, etc., because there are just far too many such people.

The RIAA has been coming down hard on people (random people...) over the Last few years (including really old and really young people, like 12 year olds)... it has had little effect other than further degrading their name and destroying the Last bits of any good reputation they had. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

About the RIAA, read this: http://www.boycott-riaa.com/facts/truth
Maybe if you knew the truth you wouldn't be so quick to support the greatest enemy of music and freedom of our time.

Anyway, we are talking about the legal definition of stealing, NOT the literal definition. And I will repeat my message for as many time as it takes for you to see that your wrong.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

Guess what?

I don't care if the RIAA is robbing bands/songwriters. I don't care if the RIAA is making (or not making) a fortune off musicians. I don't care how much profit musicians get or how much the RIAA gets.

Fact: If you download a song/album instead of buying it, you are cheating SOMEONE out of due profits/income. It really doesn't matter how much damage you are doing. You are doing damage.

This sounds like the same kind of person/people who think..."stealing a candy bar from WalMart is OK but it's wrong to steal a candy bar from a small "mom and pop" store."

The bottom line is this: If you take something that is for sale from someone without paying, you are a thief...I don't care if it is Micro$oft or the RIAA (and the artists that they compensate).

In my opinion, people who steal (whatever) and justify it by some stupid reason are just a nicer form of thief who want to make it easier to sleep at night.

Take if from a guy who returned over $200 in a mistake to a business. Sleeping is much easier without having to manufacture ridiculous justifications for theft.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

to quote Robert Flipp


http://www.disciplineglobalmobile.co...ertFripp.shtml


grey day in the Chalke Valley.

DGM is in active mode, and has been at least since my arrival here yesterday lunchtime from Canterbury.

We are refining the presentation & appearance of the new DGM website, to be launched in January. Part of this is to address the issue of downloading…

1. The current music-user standard for downloaded music is free.
This is unsustainable.

2. The current industry standard for downloaded music is expensive.
This is unsustainable.

3. A sustainable industry & music-user standard for downloads is cheap.

Widespread downloading needs to become legitimate. A reasonable objection to the high-price of downloading is that despite high prices, the bulk of the money does not go to the artists. No material object is changing hands, incurring high manufacture, deliver, storage & shop-rental charges: this is an information stream. It is significantly cheaper than hard-copy stuff.

We should differentiate between a handful of mega-artists who generate huge amounts of income (that they do not necessarily receive much of in the short term anyway), the bulk of working artists & players who earn a good living, and a greater proportion that just get by.

Making records in the traditional manner is relatively expensive. This doesn't have to be the case (cf. live recordings, official bootlegs, works in process, Club releases), but considered statements of the formal "studio album" kind cost upwards of $250-350,000. Works in progress are snapshots of the process & audio quality is not the determining element. Where audio quality is important, music-Users can pay a higher price.

But if artists don't get paid for their recorded work, where do they get money? The answer, in principle, is simple: from everything but their recorded work. Live performance & stuff – DVDs, t-shirts, posters, memorabilia, tour programmes – and subscription websites. In practice, this gives three concerns…

1. Earning money from live performance (more on that below);
2. Creating a distribution channel for stuff;
3. Building a subscription website.

Two of these concerns are active within DGM HQ today: the website & touring. As a related aside, this is from my reply to the author of a doctorate thesis on "Financial relationships between artist and record company in the Internet era –- A value chain analysis of three reintermediated cases"…

one thing that is hard to convey to an outsider is the fundamental, all-pervasive nature of exploitation within the music industry. it's rather like arguing against the slave trade when the slaves are well-fed, given acceptable accomodation, and only ill-treated when they voice disagreement with the basic premise: one person is owned by another.

For anyone who might object that this is an exaggeration, and trivialises the historic record, in the music industry:

the primary ownership is the works of the person;
the secondary ownership is the rights to that person's image & public persona (as on artist websites);
the tertiary ownership is in control of the person's choices & decision-making process.

That is, slavery concealed by smoke and mirrors, good meals & acceptable accommodation. And drugs. And flattery. And emotional & psychological manipulation. And lies.

The aside now aside, back to the subject of earning a living from live performance & a practical issue arising from settling the accounts of this summer's KC Eurotour Of Terror, Dread, Pain, Horror & Suffering. These are David's two letters to a travel company, in respect of two hired cellphones for the KC production team in Europe…

P.S. I record tv shows on vcr and watch them after wards so i can skip the commericals... They tried to ban that as well and are trying again with the facts of lost protential income http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Protential income is the biggest pile of horse manure i have ever heard. I am guessing Accountants really do run the world now.

In some places I am a criminal... because i press that fastforward button.

I think that mp3 does not equal cd. it is not a loss less format. You are not a thief nor a pirate. You may be breaking a copy right law. That is it. I feel it is as disruptive as jay walking and should be treated as such.

I am glad the MPAA and the RIAA are not here yet... But they will be some day.

Did you know SOCAN is trying to levy the isp's for money cause were all downloading copyrighted material as we speak. And all this time i thought it was porn. Hmmm... And yes i do purchase dvd's and i do buy cd's just of artists who are not in the RIAA out of principle. For I do not like giving money to convicted criminals. Nor should you.

P.S. Slynky that was not directed to you I just happend to write after you. I think you should add this to your signature.

Want all the free music you can handle learn to play an instrument.

There is so much free legal music out there to download. Sure most of it you will never hear on the radio. But hey it is music and music needs to be listened to.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

stuff like this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Beatallica

check out these lyrics

The day breaks, your mind aches

Your girlfriend takes you to

A lame-*** poser Winger concert

[ December 01, 2003, 00:37: Message edited by: tesco samoa ]

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Umm... reread my post. I hardly call that supporting the RIAA...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No we were not... we were discussing stealing, period. No special conditions or modifications.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

Baron,

I have had stability problems with DMA enabled for HD, CD, and DVD under Win98se.

DVD playback was choppy with out DMA.
1Ghz Athalon, MSI motherboard, 256MB, Geforce2 mx.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">heh, yeah, 9x winblows still just isnt good overall -- seriously use windows 2000 pro or xp

stability is and will always be an issue with DOS based OS's like windows 9x/me

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[ December 02, 2003, 14:13: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">bah, Ive used Linux, nothing special there. I'll stick with WinXP pro

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1) What do media megacorps have "due" to them, besides a kick in the nuts?

2) If the person downloading had 0% chance of giving the "owning" megacorp any money if they didn't download, then they haven't done any damage.

PvK

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Your examples are irrelevant because they are trying to compare apples and oranges... repeating them 27 times is not going to change the fact that taking someone else's intellectual property without consent is stealing it. Let's get some dictionary definitions here:
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok. Intellectual Property: A term invented by lawyers of megacorporations in the late 20th century, for the purpose of gaining acceptance for a concept that would let them solidify their trade cartels of products which cost practically nothing to produce and distribute. An item of "Intellectual Property" can be practically any concept (or practically any data type) which is claimed as the sole property of a party which wishes to distribute it for sale and assert exclusive rights to do so.

PvK

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

So? You have no right to any piece of data that someone else created unless they give you a right to use it. They have right to receive compensation for their hard work if they so choose.

[ December 02, 2003, 21:41: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No... almost always such restrictions have been how software is sold. It has nothing to do with being humane. Note that I said RUN, not INSTALL. There is a world of difference between having a piece of software installed on two computers and only using one at a time, and then having that software installed on two computers and using both installs at the same time (such as pirating an OS by installing it on more than one computer).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So you're saying the XP activation scheme intentionally lets you install one copy of XP on multiple computers, as long as you only run one at a time? That certainly wasn't my understanding.

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">there are cases, who knows why, when it just fails to find files that are there. I've tested and had XP search and find nothing, followed by another search program running the same search, which finds files.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have used the XP search extensively and it has never once failed to find a file that was there. I have used it on other computers without a hitch as well. You might have gotten your copy of XP from a OEM manufacturer that did something to the kernals to alter the search function.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've seen this problem on three computers I've worked with, one of which I installed the OS myself with install disks directly from M$.

Again, it seems pretty silly for you to tell me how many times you haven't noticed that some files aren't found by the XP search. After all, it's only noticeable if you know a file is there, and it fails, which only happens every so often. However, the fact that it fails makes the search useless for the purpose of conducting an exhaustive search, such as for insuring that a certain virus file is not on a computer. At least this provides a good reason to find a 3rd party search program and never use the annoying-as-heck XP search interface.

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Of course you can have it re-sort manually. That's not a fix, though, it's a known work-around.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is assuming that the order you want it sorted is the only correct order. They had to pick an order. That is not a bug in any shape or form.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm sure that you prefer that "sort by date" show you the oldest files first, right? I suppose you really like being force-fed BS, since you like XP so much, so it's no wonder you figure "they had to pick an order". Sure it's "by design" and not a "bug", but it is something I don't like about the interface, which is what the topic was. If they can go to the trouble to reverse the sort order, and to provide options like "hey, would you like to be annoyed by an animated puppy?", then why not have an option to sort either way by default?

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure. You must've turned it off, but by default, every few days or weeks, XP decides to launch a wizard in the user's face, perhaps with a hateful cartoon character and cutesy "speach bubble", saying something like, "Hey, XP has noticed you haven't used some of your desktop icons in a while. Would you like to stop what you're doing, and go through a wizard that asks you about all of them, and gives an option to delete them?" Yeah, there's a way to turn it off, but it's just an example of the many annoying goofball innovations of XP.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm... I have never once turned that off, nor even heard of such a feature. Must only be in some Versions of XP home...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've never run XP Home. I have seen it on XP Pro, XP Tablet, and XP MCE. Maybe there's a way to get it to shut up for good, and you shut it off when you were first disabling all the default nonsense.

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I do that on my own XP box at work, but there is still some crud left over that is not on 2K or 98. And the extra 2K stuff isn't particularly useful, except for disabling as many as possible of the unwanted default processes that launch and waste resources and CPU.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It is quite easy to customize what is in the start menu (especially easy to do in XP). Again, how you want it to look is most certainly not the "right" way to do it, nor the only way. Just because you don't like the default start meny does NOT mean that there is anything wrong with it, just that you don't like it and need to customize it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Again, I was replying to one or more questions of the nature "PvK, what don't you like about the XP interface?" I wasn't standing on a soapbox telling everyone that it was wrong for everyone. I'd recommend XP to simple casual Users who want to blow a bunch of money or are getting it relatively free somehow. After all, it's "user friendly" to a saccharine fault.

And no, I don't "need" to learn how to exorcize all the crud. That would be an annoyance in itself. I do fine by just killing the crap that I've already seen how to kill, and avoiding XP as much as I can. After all, my 98SE boxes give me no problems and run faster than my XP box at work, so I rarely need to use XP at all.

Quote:

... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> I suppose it reoccurs because of the frequent "updates" which sometimes reset default system options, such as the existance and IE association of MS Outhouse Express.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can easily remove those two programs, and they do stay removed if you do so.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I did do that. I always remove all signs of Outhouse from any computer I'm allowed to do so on. As I explained before, this didn't help - it came back, apparently in one of those poorly-documented automatic updates. The only "proper" way I might kill it now appears to be to uninstall the update. Though, it's always fun to find the Outhouse folder and delete it. Too bad that method tends to leave turds in the registry, etc.

PvK

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Media cartels do very little, if any, hard creative work outside of cunning new legal contracts to stiff the actual creators.

Data isn't being stolen from creators. The file sharing issue involves creators who have sold their rights for very little to megacorps, and the megacorps are crying because their old distribution and sales model is becoming obsolete. You know, the one with which they've been making themselves obscenely rich for decades (while exploiting the actual creators).

The real question is what forms of control of data are reasonable or unreasonable, and what options a creator of data has for distribution and compensation.

PvK

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

About windows install,.. the only Version of windows that gave me any kind of trouble was Windows ME. (and the problem was mostly incompatibility, and many programs not running properly.)

Whenever I install Windows, I always do a typical install, then once everything is up and running, I go to the Add/Remove Programs in the control panel and click on the Windows Setup tab (add remove windows components icon in XP) and remove all the junk I don't want. Accessability, Outlook Express, etc, etc..

I found out that this is actually the 'Best' way to customize the windows install. if you do a 'Custom Install' at the beginning of the install process, many things needed by the system don't get installed. The same is true for hardware drivers. when windows installs, there is no such thing as Plug-and-play, it only exists 'After' windows has installed. so many of the hardware devices are just 'best-guess' placeholders. I go to the hardware manager and delete/remove the various '!' tagged devices. when I reboot, windows always finds the devices an installs the correct drivers.

So, in fact it's kind of like you need to install windows in a 3 step process. A pain in the but to say the least, but once you know the routine, most of the annoying bugs seem to magically disapear.

another 2 cents of info for the pot..

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Umm... no. It is a method to prevent you from stealing software by just getting one copy and running it on multiple computers...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is some rather creative reading on your part... let me repeat myself: I have never had the search feature fail to find a file that I know is there. So, I know where the file is, I run the search, it always finds it.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok... this is just *****ing. It is not a productive complaint at all. Of course they had to pick how the OS works! That is how you design software. So you prefer the opposite sort order. Big deal. They decided to go the other way by default. That is not in any way a bug, and can not in any reasonable way be construed as a bug, UNLESS it is marketed to sort in the opposite order that it does by default. Otherwise, you have to grounds for complaint here.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Obviously me consistently telling people to go with 2000 over XP was lost somewhere along the way... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope. I would have remembered such a feature. Maybe it got disabled when I disabled that "show latest additions to the start menu" option, but I don't think so, as I never saw that before I had disabled that feature (after running XP for a while, of course). Rather strange.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That would depend on what the computers you are comparing are, of course. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Media cartels have nothing to do with the concept of being compensated for your work PvK... whether such alleged cartels are around or not has no bearing on whether people should receive compensation for their work if they so choose.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Either way, the shared files are still being stolen. It does not matter who has the rights to it, as long as it is not released to the public domain, downloading such files is still stealing them. That, and there are plenty of creators that are not part of megacorps that are being stolen from in the file sharing issue as well.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Erm... that is, if you don't choose to install them, they don't get installed... Windows always works fine for me when I do custom installs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ December 02, 2003, 22:47: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

The old business model of making, marketing, and selling products is fading fast. It was a good system back when it took time and money to produce new products. Now, production costs for music and software are shrinking, and distribution costs have almost disappeared completely. When it costs nothing (or next to nothing) to make something, and your still selling at the same bloated price be prepared when people get angry and start using your work without paying you.

History has shown that what is right and what is legal are not always one in the same. Laws are being passed by corrupt politicians influenced by the entertainment/software industry, that benefit big business and keep an outdated, inefficient system going.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

Umm... it still costs quite a bit of money to make the songs in the first place... and, of course, none of that justifies the theft of said music.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

Given the choice of paying for a song and the artist getting a little but the label taking most of it, and not paying at all and helping to form a new system were the artist gets ALL the money, I'm going to pick that.

If we stop paying NOW, in the future artists will be getting all (or most of) the money.

Songs could be sold for $.25 cents a piece and the artist would be making more than they do now. The consumer pays less, the artist gets more.

I can't find a downside to that. The only people that loose are the labels and the RIAA, and they deserve it.

[ December 02, 2003, 23:37: Message edited by: JayBdey ]

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

If you object to the current model, then stealing is no way to protest. Do not acquire their music at all. Don't buy it. But don't steal it either. Stealing it just makes you a petty crook and destroys any validity you might have had otherwise with your complaints.

[ December 02, 2003, 23:39: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So it's not frequent that it fails, or maybe it even never fails when doing the sorts of searches that you do. May your luck hold out.

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok... this is just *****ing. It is not a productive complaint at all. Of course they had to pick how the OS works! That is how you design software. So you prefer the opposite sort order. Big deal. They decided to go the other way by default. That is not in any way a bug, and can not in any reasonable way be construed as a bug, UNLESS it is marketed to sort in the opposite order that it does by default. Otherwise, you have to grounds for complaint here.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I never said it was a bug. Again, the topic I was responding to was a question about what I personally didn't like. It annoys me to change the sort order and not offer any option to use the old (sensible) sort order. Why would I want to see the oldest files by default?

Quote:

... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Media cartels do very little, if any, hard creative work outside of cunning new legal contracts to stiff the actual creators.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Media cartels have nothing to do with the concept of being compensated for your work PvK... whether such alleged cartels are around or not has no bearing on whether people should receive compensation for their work if they so choose.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They do have something "to do with the concept of being compensated for your work" when the worker and the person demanding compensation are two different parties, and when the demander is a megacorp demanding that everyone pay them as often as they can get away with, for as long as they can get away with, when it's utterly impractical and counterproductive to assert such rights in the face of the realities of broadcast media and ubiquitous technology such as computers on a worldwide network.

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Data isn't being stolen from creators. The file sharing issue involves creators who have sold their rights for very little to megacorps, and the megacorps are crying because their old distribution and sales model is becoming obsolete. You know, the one with which they've been making themselves obscenely rich for decades (while exploiting the actual creators).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Either way, the shared files are still being stolen. It does not matter who has the rights to it, as long as it is not released to the public domain, downloading such files is still stealing them. That, and there are plenty of creators that are not part of megacorps that are being stolen from in the file sharing issue as well.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I do not agree. Sharing ideas is not stealing, even if you heard the idea from someone else, as long as you don't claim the idea was thought up by you. Creative people should be rewarded for sharing their ideas, art, music (etc), in the first place, and if they can think of reasonable and practical ways to limit the way they share their work with others so as to make more money from them, fine. However, I believe that in general it should be the resonsibility of the vendor (not the government) to maintain control of their own media.

With media such as pop music, the crap is broadcast via radio throughout the planet, including into private houses, and it is played in public places. In neither case is there a contract between the sender and receiver. Pop music is practically inescapable - we're bombarded with it and have little choice about it. Reception and recording devices are not illegal to own and use (yet?). The original creator has already received their miniscule fraction of a percent. It's silly to say someone can't tape a broadcast and replay it. Illegal to fast forward past ads? BS! When does it ever become something that the public is allowed to share? Never?

PvK

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

The way it sorts files is fine.

I think they way this board works is screwy, it just seems unnatural to have the newest post at the top. Everyone may not like that feature but that doesn't make wrong. You have to choose one way to do things, and someone will complain that the way you chose isn't their preference.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Either way, you still have no right to their work, unless they give you that right, either through free distribution or a legal license to possess and use it.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sharing ideas is not stealing, no. Sharing physical copies of a very specific set of "ideas" (such as a song) that you have no right to share is stealing, however. Even downloading a song is stealing, as it is still a physical copy of the song (electrons and circuits are quite physical).

Where the heck did the government come into this? It has always been the responsibilty of the vendor to maintain control! The only role the government plays is to provide courst in which the vendor can have a legal means to strike back at those that would wrongfully steal their product (rather than doing something nasty like breaking their legs or some such http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure there is. There is a contract between the owner of the music and the person that is playing it over the radio.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It is actually quite illegal to record anything off of the radio. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Has been for many decades in the US at least.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Again, you have absolutely no right to watch whatever program it is. It is a privelege granted to you by the broadcasting networks.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">When it is released into public domain by the owner, or when enough time for the copyright to expire has passed.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Exactly. The option to choose how to sort is always a good thing to have though... too bad Shrapnel gives browsers no option.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

I like Xp I use it at home and work. Speaking strictly from a network administrator point of view I like xp. Less having to work around some of the securtity issues in 2000

Also Xp solved the NT bug.

Granted it now has and XP bug now but that is olay only hit that once or twice

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's why both this BBS and XP should include an option for which way to sort. There doesn't have to be only one choice.

PvK

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The question is what kinds of laws are reasonable to control the distribution. I'd say broadcasting songs everywhere in radio and sound waves is definitely "free distribution".

Quote:

... Where the heck did the government come into this? It has always been the responsibilty of the vendor to maintain control! The only role the government plays is to provide courst in which the vendor can have a legal means to strike back at those that would wrongfully steal their product (rather than doing something nasty like breaking their legs or some such http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The government came into it when corps started trying to get laws to support BS like the right of a corporation to own exclusive copyrights to "intellectual property" forever.

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">With media such as pop music, the crap is broadcast via radio throughout the planet, including into private houses, and it is played in public places. In neither case is there a contract between the sender and receiver.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure there is. There is a contract between the owner of the music and the person that is playing it over the radio.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In a just legal system, that contract can't be binding on the people who don't sign it or even know about it, but who just get bombarded by the music anyway. It's the so-called owner's responsibility to limit distribution, and they do the opposite, freely distributing it without any contract involved.

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Reception and recording devices are not illegal to own and use (yet?). The original creator has already received their miniscule fraction of a percent. It's silly to say someone can't tape a broadcast and replay it.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It is actually quite illegal to record anything off of the radio. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Has been for many decades in the US at least.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Even if true, that's preposterous.

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Illegal to fast forward past ads? BS!

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Again, you have absolutely no right to watch whatever program it is. It is a privelege granted to you by the broadcasting networks.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Only in a system where public freedom has been sold to corporations. If someone broadcasts a signal into a living room, the resident has every right to receive it and do whatever they want with it. There is no contract or just law that can say otherwise.

PvK

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

I believe you could change the way it sorts, but it would not be simple to do.

Even if it is illegal to record things from the radio, no one cares, and when no one follows a law it becomes meaningless. Like filesharing, yes it's illegal but everyone does it anyway.

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

No... everyone does not do it anyways. There are many people that do not do it. Bandwagon arguments are just silly. Everyone smokes, so why don't you? Everyone is jumping off that cliff, so why don't you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion
 

PVK in a few countries copy right holders are being paid for broadcasts of songs per broadcast. I know it is like that in Canada and UK , South Korea and most of Europe. I do not know about the rest of the world. In Canada this cost is covered by commericals and/or taxes. SOCAN is the 'group' that monitors and collects these for canadian Groups. How do I know. I receive a royalty check for 1.98 every month http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif My first one was for .04 cents...

In Canada And in the USA it is legal to record off the radio. As it is legal to record tv. This is for home use. And is called Fair something or other ... Yea... I am tired... So I cannot remember ... google it...

Where did the Illegal to fast forward past ads come from... guess it was edited out or something..

And the privelege is granted to the Media Corperations to broadcast. Not that it is a privelege granted by the broadcast networks. Read the laws on this. They are changing yes. Not for the good. But towards the errosion of Public domain and less control by the government.

Laws should reflect a society not those few who control it.


I always wondered what would happen if we actually lived in a capitalist society. I think I will never see it. But I am starting to think that I will see Marx's dream come true in the West. This scares me very much. As I do not wish to see the colaspe of the west. But in the long run I think the world will be better off. The west is becoming worse than Europe was a few hundred years ago. And I do think it will collaspe. Greed for 2% can only be sustained for so long...