Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">UTM is the Universal Tech manual which condensed all techs but Alkelda Techs into one rulebook.
There is a 4th edition of Starfire called Galactic Starfire or GSF.
3rd has had SM#2 come out which revised the game to streamline the strategic game and cleared up some other rules. Currently in production is the URD, or the Unified Rules Manual which is condensing and clarifying all rules from all sources into one book for 3rdR.
Their is a website for Starfire at www.starfiredesign.com
From there you can learn about all of the products, order new ones and join the mailing list for Starfire.

As for having additional Beta's, the more the better for testing purposes.

Dan K

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Wubbles, I am going off on business for a couple of weeks. I will have access to my laptop, so will check into the forums when I am bored (about every 15 minutes), but dont have SEIVG set up on the laptop, so wont be able to beta test for a couple of weeks.

Gives you time to get all your DUC's in a row (geddit? geddit?)

Sayonara Mr Wubbles

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I will miss your colorful insight but I understand. Have a safe trip; you know that your spot is always guaranteed reserved.

I get it,
Mr Wubbles Out.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Mr Wubbles, that name has now stuck - you should change your sig and member name.

Off topic but here is a warning to having nicknames - at university, I went through a stage of being called "Nippy the magical duck" (it is a very long story and yes, it does involve beer).

I recently was doing a deal in London, the room was full of lawyers, accountants, businessmen etc all screaming at each other. Yours truly took the floor and called for silence, to give his worthwhile opinion and advice on a point of law. One of the accountants was with me at university, to help me, he hushed the meeting up and with the words "let's see what Nippy has to say on this".

I still have not lived it down, and my clients are sending me faxes and emails addressed to "Nippy". ANd when they found out about the magical duck bit, bugger bugger bugger

Cheers Wubbles, be in touch

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Before I run off to my classes I just wanted to share a thought. It seems to me that we are getting a pretty good balance here, allow me explain. We have:

Dan K: Bringing heavy 3rdE experience to the Beta.

Growltigger and Myself: Bringing a roughly balanced level of experience in 3rdE and SE4G.

Magnum (If he decides to join): Bringing heavy SE4G experience.

Shaping up nicely if I do say so myself. Not that I am against more joining mind you, but I could not have hoped for better symmetry.

PS: If Mr. Wubbles does stick than I will consider changing it, but then again I would need a new avatar. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Edited in:
Magnum: Let me address your point about the Ic, I would have liked to do some adjustment myself however the majority vote (3 for option A, 1 for option B) won out. So IND2 will be combined with HTL1. I could have done something close to your suggestion by making the IcE (as you called it) larger, but not much else.

[ February 03, 2004, 14:32: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Here is a Crie de Cour to all Starfire Mod posters and lurkers.

As a matter of a monicker for Galactic domination, we surely must all agree that "President Elect Shang" is just, SOOOOO yesterday.

I hereby move the beta testers to vote for PES to formally change his name to MR WUBBLES.

If he does that, I shall change mine to MR FLOPPY. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I second that!

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

as the contributer of the second half of the moniker, ie., 'The Borg', i get an automatic vote and third that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Fair enough than, two more votes and you will be Mr Floppy and I will be Mr Wubbles. Man will we have a hard time explaining that one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

I vote in favor of the Wubbles!

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Vote For Wubbles The Borg In 2004!

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can't vote twice! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

i'm not. i'm campaigning!

Vote For Wubbles The Borg In 2004!

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

First of all, I have too say I like how this Starfire discussion is going. I'm sorry too say I will be too busy too participate in any Beta Testing (too many other projects too do) but I will work on the ship sets as I have some unique ideas that I would like too try out. Lets just say if I pull this off, the ship sets will look similar too the Table-top counters in the board game, but will also look futuristic-like the PC game "Homeworld".

But I do have two questions for you guys about this mod. First, what are you going too do about the "Missile Interdiction" rules? If I recall, if a doesn't have any Propulsion Feild Drive going (ie. All Ion Engines Destroyed) then a Nuke can cause 10X more damage then if the Feild was established. I can't see anyway this could be modded into SE4G unless someone here has an semi-solution too make this work.

Second question. One thing I liked about Starfire is the ability too customize ship configuration anyway you want. A race could have several different classes of the same type of hull and systems, but arranged differently in its DAC chart. Since SE4 doesn't have any type of DAC too speak up (basically random chance too hit all components) I propose an alternative idea in order too create a similar concept. In one other mod I was reading a while ago, some of us came up with the idea of using an "Inner/Outer" hull idea for components. Inner Hull components would be basically the components you see in SE4 where you just place them inside your ship, but Outer Hull components would be components in SE4 that have "Armor" capability and thus would be damaged before Inner Hull components take damage. So when you design your ship, each tech system could have an "Inner Hull" component and an "Outer Hull" component with Armor capability that would get damaged first. Granted, this would mean more work creating more components, but would also allow you too make more unique designs with ships, and it would give importance too Primary Beams in the mod. If I recall, Primary beams skip certain systems in SF. Having Primaries skip the "Outer Hull" componets (Armor Tech system in SE4 terms) would give the Primary Beams their SF capabilites (somewhat) in the mod.

What do you guys think? Would the "Inner/Outer" hull concept be a semi-solution that people could except?

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Leaky armor is great, and done well, adds a lot of strategic variety to ship designs! Keep in mind it needs a lot more hit points than most other "internals" to have a good chance of being hit first. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wubbles The Borg! Wubbles The Borg! If He Couldn't Blow Bubbles He Wouldn't Be Wubbles The Borg!

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

[quote]Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:

Quote:

Wubbles The Borg! Wubbles The Borg! If He Couldn't Blow Bubbles He Wouldn't Be Wubbles The Borg!

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmmm, evidence of the hysteria that always seems to attend any election campaign being organised by Americans. Someone please take Narf Poit Chez Boom out, preferably with a bullet to the head.

Missile interdiction, gosh, I had forgotten about that. It would be wonderful if you could mod that into the beta, but I do suspect that it will not be possible.

Damn it though, the only time I came across this rule is when my opponent developed "Pursuit Cruisers" armed with the missiles which blow your engines. He chased one of my damaged superdreadnough divisions, blew their engines and then laughed at my amazement when his missile volleys vaped my ships. Snikkin' frakkin' rikkin' rakkin' anyway, I wiped out his fleet at the Battle of Deneb so ho hum. Wubbles, can you confirm or deny whether or not missile interdiction is possible? can you make a missile that does ten times damage if it hits a target with no engines? (it would have to exclude bases, PDCs etc).

Turning to the inner outer armour concept, I agree with you that one of the things that is slightly depressing about SEIVG is that so far as I can tell, the only effect of your components on the list is the order in which weapons fire. I like your idea, I really do, again, Wubbles, is this something you can do in the Mod?

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

[quote]Missile interdiction, gosh, I had forgotten about that. It would be wonderful if you could mod that into the beta, but I do suspect that it will not be possible.

Damn it though, the only time I came across this rule is when my opponent developed "Pursuit Cruisers" armed with the missiles which blow your engines. He chased one of my damaged superdreadnough divisions, blew their engines and then laughed at my amazement when his missile volleys vaped my ships. Snikkin' frakkin' rikkin' rakkin' anyway, I wiped out his fleet at the Battle of Deneb so ho hum. Wubbles, can you confirm or deny whether or not missile interdiction is possible? can you make a missile that does ten times damage if it hits a target with no engines? (it would have to exclude bases, PDCs etc).[qb][quote]

Can something like this be done?

Quote:

[qb]Turning to the inner outer armour concept, I agree with you that one of the things that is slightly depressing about SEIVG is that so far as I can tell, the only effect of your components on the list is the order in which weapons fire. I like your idea, I really do, again, Wubbles, is this something you can do in the Mod?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How are sheilds being modeled?

Dan K

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Well I was having a great debate with my History professor so I need to change gears, however let me address these questions.

Magnum: Sorry to hear that you can’t beta test but by all means tackle the ship sets. Send an email to the address I provided and I will send you a list of the updated ship hulls, I have the feeling that you are working off of the pre-UTM hulls. Also should you enlist any other aid let me know so that can give proper credit. If you do get aid from others than I will trust you to act as the “Lead Designer” and follow your recommendations (it will save you from having to ask me for guidance) unless it is something far out of lines with the StarFire motif, but I seriously doubt that will be the case as you are really working unrestricted already. *Motif? Define StarFire motif?*

Inner and Outer Hull: This is a fair idea but I can see too many complications with it:

First is the damage. If I where to increase the tonnage structure of a component that sits on the Outer Hull I would have to increase the damage of all weapons so that a single hit could still destroy that system, this would mean that a single hit could destroy multiple Inner Hull systems.
Second is the AI factor, I can’t say for certain but it would seem to me that the AI would have a hic-up applying the actual armor component to a ship that has components with armor traits. Let’s say that I set the AI to create ship A with two points of armor and it adds two components with the armor trait, now it has no need to add actual armor as it has just satisfied the requirements.
Third it would still be random, if you have two components with the armor trait (component A and B in that order) it can not be guaranteed that A will be damaged and destroyed before B. The sought after effect is still missing.
Fourth: I could increase the tonnage structure of Inner Hull components to make up for the lop-sided effect of the Outer Hall, yet still is the fact that anything with the armor trait is fair game for damage. In other words it would be nuts to loose your “Outer Hull” missile launcher before all of your armor is gone. Then again I could increase the tonnage structure of all armor, and then I would have to increase the damage of all weapons that hit armor, then that would be too much damage on internal scores, increase their tonnage structure… See the dilemma?

So “Leaky Armor” just won’t work in this mod and still keep a balance. Now on to the Last item, I saved it for Last on purpose. The issue of the interdiction field, I may have an idea that will work however that is something I think should be addressed “off forum”. Once I create the outline and an explanation as to the idea I will email my proposal to the addresses you have provided me. Mr. Floppy at what address should I contact you, or would you prefer a private message for ease?

Almost forgot, shields, they are modeled just as normal shields in SE4G. I could not see any difference between the two except that 3rdE shields interdict scanning and that was easy to add in. I can not say for certain that it will work and there is no way to avoid scanning a ship once combat has started. Other than this one “flaw in application” it should by all rights work just as in 3rdE, beta testing needed of course.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm Canadian. That means i'm a North-North American. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

*picks up a sign that reads 'Shoot The Tiger!' and starts marching* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ February 04, 2004, 16:53: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Re: Missile Interdiction.

It's possible to have a weapon do multiple damage to shields. Is it possible to have a weapon do normal damage to shields and multiplied damage to everything else?

If so, set up missiles to do that. Then, add a small shield generating function to engines. Not much, 10 points per engine regenerative. The end effect; if you knock out the shields and the "drive field", the missiles slam home for massive damage.

Yeah, yeah, the engines will still be there. Life's imperfect.

Glad to help.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes. Multiply its damage by 4 and give it the 1/4 damage to shields type. This gets the exact same effect, in that it will do "normal", expected damage to shields, and 4x to everything else. There is also 1/2 damage to shields, and 2 times damage to shields.

[ February 04, 2004, 19:56: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Excellent. Do that thing he said.

Thank you Fyron.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

I have given it very careful thought and the interdiction effect of the I and Ic will not work. The [obvious] problem that I see with Fyron’s suggestion is that even after all engines are destroyed the interdiction effect would continue until the Last shield generating component was destroyed. If that is the case then it is no longer the interdiction effect that you know of from the books and we 3rdE’rs know of from cannon.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

You can not have a weapon with 2 damage types. So, you can not have "shield generators" damage and "1/4 to shields." 1/4 to shields means that it does 1/4 the damage to the shield points, not the shield generators themselves.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes I know, but I do not see where you are going with this comment, it has nothing to do with what I just posted so I am assuming this is based on an earlier comment? Can you explain your point some more, it may lead to yet another line of thought.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

I now think that DemoMonkey was hoping for some sort of combined 1/4x to shields and engine damaging weapon, given the nature of your (second to Last) post. I am not sure though, but better safe than sorry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, by cannon, the sheilds AND the DF have to be down for the nukes to multiply thier damage. So as a mechanic, it would work as long as Engines and Sheilds are the only things with this attribute.

Dan K

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

To clarify what I was going for: A weapon that does massive normal damage, but only 1/4 damage to shields,

AND

Engine components themselves generate a small amount of shields.

So when the normal shileds and the "drive field" (the small amount of shields generated by the engines) have been knocked out, the weapon will gut a ship like a fish.

Shang (or is it Wubbles the Borg now?)

Please allow me a respectful criticism.

By not accepting any suggestions that fail to conform perfectly to the source material, you are yourself, in fact, not conforming to source material. Engine interdiction DOES exist in the source material, so by not putting ANYTHING in to represent it, you are ignoring your own canon.

At the risk of repeating myself from the closed warp point discussion - a compromise solution that preserves the flavour and metagame effect of something is better than just pretending it isn't there at all because you can't get it to work perfectly.

Of course, as the person in charge of the project these things are, of course, your call. However if your position is "It must work EXACTLY the same as the source material or it will be left out entirely, no matter how important it is to the strategy and tactics" then please say so and I can stop wasting your time.

I still, of course, support the project and look forward to it's completion.

Thank you.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

DemoMonkey,

Good post my man, but I must say in Wubbles' defence that as a general point, I do not believe any of us are setting out a policy whereby if a suggestion is non-canon, it is ignored.

I think the thrust of Wubbles' point is that it may be next to impossible to accurately reflect the interdiction field with the limitations of the mod, so what we are trying to do is find a solution which is (a) workable and (b) if not canon, then a suitable compromise on canon.

That is why I think Wubbles asked you if you could recall whether the damage multiplier for nukes applied if both shields and the interdiction field were down.

NB It is years since I looked at the 3rd edition rule book (I found it in the loft over the weekend, hidden between my wife's pony rosettes from when she was 15) but, I seem to recall that shields operated outside the interdiction field, therefore you had to thrash the shields, and knock down the engines, before you got multiple damage.

If this is the case, then what I think Wubbles is saying is that this could be modded.

The problem is that if we decide we want an interdiction effect, then we need to work out how best it can operate between SEIVG and SF canon.

The whole point of this exercise is to set up a group of people with both SEIV and SF experience to try and batter out a workable compromise.

Keep the suggestions coming as you seem to have more of an intuitive feel for the Starfire system than certainly I do. And my eyes glaze over when you start getting technical on the damage multipliers. Me just want mod on plate.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

"So when the normal shileds and the "drive field" ..."

Of course, first we have to mod the game to include "shileds"...

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Actually, that is a good point. What happens in the Mod if Wubbles turns out to be a bit dyslexic, so that the rest of us have to build "lihgt curisers" armed with "forec bemas" and "poont defuns"?

Could drive everyone madder than badgers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Ok this Friday as a release for the Beta just is not going to happen, as I sat down Last week and decided on Feb 6 it seemed a really good date with plenty of margin for error. However those real world events can often sneak up on you and since Saturday I have been running around putting out one fire after another. So as I sit here today and look down range I think that I can safely say that Friday the 13 is a good date. HA-HA-HA, maybe I should change that now…

Demo: I got a little lost with your comment, although I appreciate the criticism I have to point that although I may have forgotten about the interdiction effect who can blame me, I have created this mod from scratch and by using the few elements that could convert over from the first Version of it. When you pointed out the interdiction effect I immediately recognized it and started to work on including it into the mod. When I lost sight as to how it could be done reasonably I asked others for help. This can be seen in my below Posts, in particular the one to Dan K pointing out that the shield effect remaining after all drives are knocked out may not be of consequence.

I really do thank you for all that you are suggesting, and also for volunteering to work on the ship sets, but you must keep in mind that if the proposed idea to the mod strays to far, no matter who thought it up (i.e. my idea about adding an engine at a lower tech level), than it won’t get added. Your point about the interdiction field is great, if Dan K is right about the shields AND drive field comment than hope is alive and it should be doable. But if he is wrong (I hope not) than what you are proposing wonders to far off cannon and I could not agree with adding it in. On the other hand there is always the vote of the beta testers that can override me.

This is lengthy so let me sum up my point, I don’t want you to feel that I am ignoring your comments or anyone else’s and I don’t want you or anyone else to feel or think that I hold “ultimate power” over this mod. I try to stick to cannon, once the beta is done and tested non-cannon features can always be added, till then non-cannon features could be added but I would need to be convinced or the majority of the beta testers would need to request it. Finally cannon features maybe missing, because I have done a lot of work so far and I am human I am bound to forget, just remind me.

The comment about the warp point is also one that I did not ignore; it just can not be done. If I add it in than for what good or reason? The AI will not be tricked into looking for it, as Fyron pointed out the path-finding AI can not be modified, and a player need not search for it, just click on the map until the left panel pops up and says (in effect) here is a warp point. So I hope you can see that I did not ignore you. It just can not be done in a way that would work. Keep in mind that I am constrained by the limits SE4G places on me.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Good thoughts MR Floppy and thank you. I also want to include the interdiction effect into the Mod. That is why I am asking for help on this one, maybe I should explain how I understand the interdiction effect as working and this may help out others to point out my error:

1) It is an “effect” not a “function” likes shields. A unit that has powered down or has no engines may raise shields but will not get the “benefit” of the interdiction effect.

2) Any unit that does not have a drive field and thus does not have the interdiction effect suffers x10 damage from any missile with a warhead of: Nuclear, Anti-Matter, Advanced Anti-Matter.

3) Some "units" get the interdiction effect due to station keeping drives.

Is this right?
3rdE Revised rulebook P#19 rule 03.11.07: “A starship which shuts down (deactivates) all of its engines has a 360 degree field of fire but loses the missile interdiction of its drive.”

So nothing about shields, thus my point (the reason my spirits got crushed) is that to mod in the Interdiction Effect we would need to (1) use a SE4G ability other than shields or (2) accept that the interdiction effect will not work as it should and push ahead (now that I have a new deadline I think it can be done) or (3) let the idea go (as it means wondering too far off cannon to accomplish), maybe not for good, but at least for now.

Edited in:
Mr Floppies I just wanted to touch on your comment about the shields and the interdiction effect. The drive field that provides the effect extends past the point of the shields. Remember that the interdiction effect is not a “shield”; all it is doing is “shorting” out the missile guidance and “fooling” it into detonating the warhead early. If shields extended past the drive field than to play the game you would first have to apply the missile damage at x10 against shields then reduce damage until the Last engine is destroyed, then increase damage back to x10.

[ February 05, 2004, 16:41: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hay I like to point at deez buns, they are so shapely and every one should look at deem! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm sure. And it's in the game since 2ndEd of the game. If you go by the latest rules, then you will need to look up the 3rdR book and look under damage rules. I don't have my book here at work so I'll get the page to you once I'm home.

Also further look at the shield description. I'll come up with all this data once I have researched the books at home.

But for a basic explination, the Shields sit outside of the DF, not inside it.


Dan K

[ February 05, 2004, 17:12: Message edited by: Dan Kochheiser ]

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

In the 3rdR by the "SDS" it states:

3rdE Revised rulebook P#19 rule 03.11.07: “A starship which shuts down (deactivates) all of its engines has a 360 degree field of fire but loses the missile interdiction of its drive.”

Also in 04.04 pp1 it says "Drive field interdiction is lost when the Last drive field fails." It then goes on to say that ""Shields Down" allows special weapon effects" one of which is not x5 damage from missiles. Also in the same rule (04.04) look under #1 “Weapons with warheads” you will notice here that it clearly says this effect is caused by the drive field and not the shields. It is also worth noting that the damage is x5 not x10, that was the old 2ndE Rules, if the drive field is outside the shields or vice-versa is all interesting but not the point, Mr Floppy I can not answer for sure where the heck it is, I know that you are asking for just the sake of knowledge but I don’t want us to get bogged down here.

All rules aside, guys can we do this and still accept it as a worthwhile compromise, Beta Testers should we vote?

A) Pursue the option
B) It can not be done close enough to warrant the variation from cannon.

Also keep in mind that I have HAD TO vary from cannon to get this far in the creation of the Mod, we can always shelve this until later and that is what I would like to do.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Because I said I would do this...

The exact quote to look for in SF3rdR page 22 rule 4.04 section 1 3rd paragraph it says "If, however, a starship, BS, or SS loses it's drive field, it also loses the drive interdiction effect. Thus any missile, gun hit, or mine that inflicts non-shield damage on a unit without a drive field inflicts five times normal damage."

See the inmportance here is that the the damage has to be NON-SHIELD and the DF has to be down for the 5x damage to occur.

Dan K

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Ha-Ha! I don’t think I have been this happy to be wrong in a very long time, have a beer on me Dan K you earned it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

So it can be done, all we need to do is figure out what to do about that “other” problem we have been discussing?

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Darn what a shame, I had actually belt up anticipation over night thinking that you were about to introduce the problem from a new angle. What a shame, well short of any other ideas I remain with the position that the Interdiction Effect can not be replicated.

But then wait Dan K appears on the horizon, are you sure about drives AND shields? I have to call you on this one, what page and book?

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well folks, I think we did it. The Interdiction Feild will be in the Mod. Wubbles wanted me to announce it. Thanks for DemoMonkey for the original idea to base the effect. And Wubbles for figuring out the technical stuff. I just played the small part of idea initiator for the end result.

And Wubbles, Uncle says "One more thing..."
I realized that Tug designs will have a very interesting new capability.

Dan K

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Ok, if Shang does want too add Feild Interdiction rules, how about this proposal.

How about making SF Sheilds "Phased Sheilds" and make the Ion Engine sheilds "Normal sheilds" in SE4G? Instead of worrying about making Missiles 1/4 damage values, just make "Phased Sheilds" (SF sheilds) worth 1 hit value and make the Interdiction Feild (Normal sheilds) worth 5X value. At the mean time, have all beam weapons use the "Sheild skipping ability" too by-pass the Ion Engines sheild effects so that they are not effected. This would unfortunetly make Lasers loose their SF's "Sheild by-pass" effect (because they wouldn't by-pass the Phased sheilds) but this solution would be close (unless their is an ability in SE4G that allows you too by-pass Phased sheilds aswell). Couldn't this solution work?

Shang, will you still please consider the "Inner/Outer" hull concept? You don't have too work on it now, but perhaps later after Beta Testing is underway or after Beta Testing is over. I would really like this Mod too have some ability too make unique Classes of ships like in SF.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

If any shields on a ship are un-phased, they ALL end up non phased.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Magnum357 we went a different route with the effect, and I think it will do better at modeling it than your suggestion. But thanks for the input. The way we are doing things should allow us to keep the shield skipping effects of lasers.

Dan K

[ February 06, 2004, 03:55: Message edited by: Dan Kochheiser ]

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep. "Skips Normal Shields" skips non-phased shields. "Skips All Shields" skips all shields, regardless of phasing.

But, as P-D said, 1 point of non-phased shields will make the entire shield layer non-phased.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

Great, I knew that there was something in the rules about non-shield damage only incurring the non-interdiction field penalty.

This brings back memories.

Oh, I remember what it was, I used to play SF against one of those people who never enter into the spirit of the game, but play the game to a point of principle tighter than a gnat's chuffer in accordance with the rules. For me, the majesty of Starfire was designing your own ships, naming them, building and empire and then the excitement of interstellar wars, where the other side never knew what you were doing! With a good space marshall (and ours was good), the nervousness of what ever warp tranit would bring was just delightful.

I would get excited when one of my Agamemnon class cruisers defeated one of his Kalbacun class cruisers, I would be happy as a ferret if he defeated me in a battle. I could picture the firestorm raging between battlelines, the myriad explosions in the dark of space etc etc etc

He, on the other hand, liked to quote rules, he just wanted to win. I never knew about the interdiction field until he quoted it at me the little sod. So hey ho, the next thing I am facing are missiles which home on to your engines and blow them up.

The next thing this little turd pulls out of the tech tree (and I still dont know where it came from) was some damn missile that causes your shields to collapse so, not only are your capital ships sitting ducks with no engines, but they have no shields, and hey ho, any nuke is going to waste them!!??!

Still, I managed to beat the little swine at the Battle of Deneb.

Back to reality, glad this got sorted. Wubbles, I think you just get on with the beta. There is going to be quite a lot coming out of the testing that will mean to you need to tweak it. Stick to canon as much as you can, and if you cant, so be it.

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Crap, I didn't think about that, could pose a small problem in terms of an unfair advantage against the AI, but who amongst us needs an unfair advantage against it anyway?

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure we can work on it but how would propose getting around the damage factor?

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

"Still, I managed to beat the little swine at the Battle of Deneb."

I just did a quick cut and paste rather than a quote, I am glad you did beat him, sounds to me that the “swine” was using a mix of AD tech with his standerd tech.

Memories…

The Tal-Re Republic was the leader of the Star Alliance. Don’t get me wrong we had a very low Racial Militancy but once you hit us we never gave up, and we were advanced. I remember how I brought my exploration ship up to the unexplored WP and made the jump. Nerves pounding as they always do, entering the unknown. We found “them” on the other side; my peaceful ways caused me to sit still as he brought his weapons on-line faking communication attempts with me. That started the war, and this war would end up crushing two of the four Star Alliance members. Just me and my soon-to-be partner who could only be accessed by a single WP in my home system; he did loose his few colonies and the Tal-Re Republic was on the brink of collapse. In the end it was something like what happened with the Arachnids, he (I think his name was Tom) was so convinced of impending victory that he stretched his lines to long and thin. The battle of ? (can’t remember name now) broke his battle line and (by coincidence) at the same time my partner finally agreed to commit his few remaining reserves. The outdated reserves with new construction from my yards and his allowed us to gain the initiative. AND WE HELD IT!

Re: StarFire Mod v-Beta 2
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Crap, I didn't think about that, could pose a small problem in terms of an unfair advantage against the AI, but who amongst us needs an unfair advantage against it anyway? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thinking about further, the tug advantage comes at cost that is greater than just buying shields directly. Economically, it's not a feasable choice. But in certain situations, I can see it being used for gaining a slight advantage. So I don't think it would get abused to terribly. And the AI shuldn't suffer from the lack of this 'knowledge'.

Dan K