Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

So the Last map... did not have see everything turned on... So you could not see the sphere worlds etc... That I know... Perhaps you were ancient..

I would rather keep the training in instead of a mod... I do not know why we would get rid of it.

I would rather have view own score all the time...

For the surreneder option... if you mark the player dead on PBW the computer will fight it out to the bitter end...

But truefully I think that if a player wishes to surreneder to a player they send that player and the game admin an email about it... If they all agree then surreneder. No one likes to stick around and waste time on a game when they are done. Very understandable. ( Or you could just mark the empire as dead ,,,, If you have the no surreneder option for the game turned on... So the player will still have to take the time to take out the computer player ... )


As for the Talisman... if we state no talisman and leave religous in... then the player cannot put it on their ships/units...

If they do then a good rule would be for the turn to be reset and all those ships and units must be gifted to the other player and then they scrap them... ( bonus of the resources )

A heafty price indeed for not following the rules... But I do not think it would be broken again.

The only problem there is a computer controled empire... But they are useless so they should not be a threat to the player anyways.


If were not playing stock..

How about the latest Version of the sweet mod... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Which is being released this Friday..

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

What's the sweet mod?

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

Training....doesn't really matter to me. There's really no difference if its on or off, because you can bet everyone is going to train their ships/fleets to the max before sending them out. So the training bonuses will be cancelling each other out.

As for scores, I think we should keep scores to 'own' only. No seeing all scores, or even the scores of your allies.

Surrender really doesn't matter to me.

And DEFINITELY no all systems can be seen by all players.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

I would hate to leave training out because some people are too lazy to organize training by themselves. Like said, Psychic is for them to go. And I'm not sure they would like to play RTH anyway, for it will be the micromanager's dream (I know the Last game was). However, leaving it away would give Attack and Defence traits more value and people would use a lot of points for them. That could be interesting.

I support the idea of banning talisman but leaving Religious. I don't think we need to mod it out, because everyone could see if it would be used so it would not be "unnoticed cheating". The nature shrine is propably the most valuable building in whole game, so religious trait would still be tempting.

How about gifts? I say we keep them on. I like the idea of supporting both sides of the war and watch them fighting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

Ok, I think I have made my decision on most areas that we've been discussing.

Religious; this trait will be available to use but talisman will be Banned. To keep things simple we will not mod it out, if you are caught using it the penalty will be very high. So I suggest not using it!

Surrender; I will allow surrender to be enabled. But if you are being beaten badly enough to the point where you want to surrender you must approach not only player beating you but also the game admin. This will make sure we don't have any situations as we did in the Last game.

Score; this will be left at only seeing your own score in-game.

Gifts; gifts will be allowed.

Ruins; will be turned off. (Unless everyone wants it)

Training; will be left on. It looks like the majority are in favor of it.

We still need at least 1 more player for this game, and up to a maximum of 3 more then what we currently have.
Revised list of players:
1 - Ragnarok
2 - Primitive
3 - Spoo
4 - Tesco
5 - Renegade 13
6 - Electrum
7 - Karibu
8 -
9 -
10 -

As soon as map is finished and we have the Last player(s) then we will probably get started.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

5000 points again with no intel ??

Full tech game ruins do not matter ... and they can give a few goodies as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yup, 5K points with no intel.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

I have to say that I an travelling from 20th february to 29th february and I am not able to play during that time. I would not like to skip that many turns at the very beginning of the game so I suggest we wait until 1st of march to start the game. Also the patch might be published by then (I think it is coming soon, but I have no knowledge of it, though). However, I do as you decide.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That'll work fine. It will allow more time for the map to be made and everything else worked out as far as settings.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

Ok, I took some time to come up with a little bit of a story for this game. Let me know what you think of it.

Millennia ago your race was once the center of the galaxy. You spent decades building your empire within the privacy of your own cluster of star systems that the Ancient Ones had placed you in. The Ancient Ones had left great texts that spoke of other races in the universe that were doing just as you were; building a great empire. These texts also spoke of a day when all races taking a great journey out of their clusters.

Your race had finally decided that this was the time period in which to embark on this quest of universal conquest. You designed and built great technology that enabled you to create artificial warp gates that would allow you to take this journey and link your clusters wither other clusters.

Little did you realize that these other races were ready for this day. They too had built massive empires within their clusters. Many races made first contact and many wars had broken loose. There were few treaties made during this time, no one wanted to become unprepared for the inevitable.

For decades wars raged on until one day two prominent races stood out above all others. They had grown to such a point that they could not be stopped. Over the next few centuries they nearly exterminated the other races that once ruled in their respective clusters.

Once it reached this point the Ancient Ones decided it was time to intervene. They stopped the wars in time to spare a few of many of the races. Some of the races once known, however, were destroyed and would never rise again. The Ancient Ones decided it was time to start again, this time to see if peace would be possible.

They restored the universe to what it once was before the wars broke out. Despite the best efforts by the two races that dominated the universe at this time the Ancient Ones overcame them and plundered much of their empires. Never did these think their empires could fall so quickly.

The Ancient Ones returned you to another cluster and limited you to just a handful of planets. You kept much of your technological data but lost much more. In the case of the few empires that lost everything the Ancient Ones brought in other races from different universes' to replace these ones. They knew that one day the universe would return to its deplorable state of war and conquest… yes, they knew one day it would Return to Hell!


And by the way, we still need at least 1 more player to start. If we don't have a player by then we will go ahead with just 7 but I would like to have 8. Starting date is tentatively March 1st.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

The story is great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif I hope I won't meet the ancient ones any more, for they are devious creatures http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

*bump*

For all the players that have already committed themselves to this game; the game is now set up on PBW so that we can begin the joining process and have it all set up by the start day in a few weeks. Game title is Return to Hell 2.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

Still have 3 slots open for this game.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

We still have 3 open slots for this game. Read through this thread to find some of the details for the game. It will truely be an epic and record setting game for SEIV! It will start in roughly 2 weeks from now!

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

what is the punishments ???

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In the case of using the talisman the turn may be rolled back if it is needed in order to correct the situation. You will also be required to gift your ships to the empire you attempted to use it against. So not only are you hurting yourself by losing those ships but you are helping your enemy by giving the ships to them. But the person receiving the ships will be required to either a) scrap the ships for the resources or b) refit the ships to remove the talisman.
As of right now that is the primary punishment for using the talisman but potentially harsher punishments can be thought up. (Suggestions?)

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

i was thinking about the talisman issue.

One problem with gifting them is that the players economy might collaspe if it is a 500 ship fleet.

Then they have to move it. and scrap it.

Perhaps a better solution would be roll the turn back.

The player who used the talisman must take all the ships ( verified by a 3rd party who is not playing in the game ) to their nearest base. or base ship yard. And then scrap them.

Also they must pay the player who they attacked the maintence for those ships for 4 turns.

Natually all the other players will know about this and public flogging will commence.

If it happens a second time ( Say after a 4 turn grace ) Then the player should be removed from the game. His ships scrapped ( with talisman). Empire turned over to another player to take over.

Just some ideas


Now the always open warp point.

what happens if I close one off... And then open another one and it turns out i cannot open a warp point to that system.

So I try another one the turn after and it opens

Should there be punishment for that ?

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

I like your ideas for punishment for using the talisman. I will write up in more detail something along those lines to put into effect for this game.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't feel there should be. As long as you are honestly trying to open up a warp point to another system that very turn. Now if you go 3, 4, or 5 turns in a row and still haven't opened one then there should be a penalty to pay I think.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

Are there any restrictions on using retrofit-series to quickly construct sphereworlds?

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If you want to spend the cash to do so then feel free. But since we have some realitive new ones in this game I think it would only be fair if we told them the process and exactly what retroseries is. I am not an expert at it so I will allow someone else who is better qualified to explain it. If there are players who do not know how to do this and no one is willing to explain it then I will have discourage the use of retroseries; but I doubt we will have a problem with that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

I've never tried it, but figured this game might be a good place to give it a shot.

The basic idea is that to retrofit a ship to a new design, the new design can only cost so much more than the original (I think it's 125%). However, you can give a ship unlimited retrofit orders in a turn.

So you build the cheapest starbase that you can. Then retrofit to a design that costs 125% more, then on the same turn, you retrofit it to another design that costs 125% more than the first retrofit, etc. Viola, you have the starbases to build your sphereworld in a fraction of the time it takes to build them straight. The downside? It costs a ridiculous amount of resources to do this, since you're paying for each retrofit.

[ February 11, 2004, 19:34: Message edited by: Spoo ]

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

Max cost difference for retrofits is 150%, not 125%. Also, it is a difference in the total resource cost, not each resource individually.

In simultaneous movement games, a retrofit order deletes all previous orders that a ship had. So, you can only do one step in the retroseries per turn.

[ February 11, 2004, 19:37: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

Last game i built a ton of space ships to do it for each star...

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is how I did it. I had 50+ ships at any given time building bases.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

I did some searching and found a thread that deals with this tatic. It explains it in good detail.
It is located right here.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

Well I had the basic idea right...

Thanks for the clarification Fyron. Too bad it doesn't seem as useful in simultaneous games (so much for my 3 turn sphereworlds).

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

Never heard of this.

It doesn't sound "right".

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That of retroseries? Some consider it to be 'gamey' but some do not. I only consider it to be that way if the game bans the use of it obviously. In a game such as RTH I don't think it will matter that much since worlds will most likely produce at a high rate anyway.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

so are we going to wait for the patch and then create and start the game.

If it is coming out within the next 3 or 4 weeks I vote for wait

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The game wasn't going to start until March 1st. I heard that the patch will be out sometime this month so if that is the case then we shall wait for the patch. But if the patch isn't out until after March 1st we will go ahead and wait for it to come. So either way we will play this game under the new patch.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

What does everyone think of Ancient race? Should we ban it?

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ban it.

Its too good to not take, and very boring to have.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

It's fine with me if you leave ancient race. I'm not going to take it and ruin my ability to use the planets window to colonize my cluster.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can just use the Planets window with Don't Show Systems to Avoid, set your ships to ignor the Systems to Avoid, and make excessive use of the Systems to Avoid feature in Empire Options.

. . .

or not.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

I think we will put a ban on ancient race. It will ruin too much of the fun and mystery in the game.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

Cirvol has joined up for this game.
Once we have all our players signed up and ready to go I will send out a news item from PBW for the final game settings, most are in place right now but some things could change if players wish.

We now have 2 open slots of any who wish to join this game.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

The game has filled its 10 slots. As soon as we have a map, and the new patch is released we will start the game. Start thinking about your empire setups! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

Here are the game settings I've updated on the game page on PBW.

Starting resources: 100000
Starting planets: 10
Home planet value: Good
Score display: Own
Technology level: High
Racial points: 5000
Event frequency: Medium
Event severity: Catastrophic
Victory conditions: Last man standing (See below)
Maximum units: Unlimited
Maximum ships: Unlimited
Other game settings:

Surrender to be enabled. But if you are being beaten badly enough to the point where you want to surrender you must approach not only the player beating you but also the game admin. This will make sure we don't have any situations as we did in the Last game.

There will be no Intel in this game.

Religious; this trait will be allowed but the Talisman will be Banned. It will not be modded out of the game but if you are caught using it you will suffer great consequences.

No turtelling! You must leave at least 1 system open for warp points to come in and out of. Turtling will be punished as well.

Ancient race is Banned.

Winning condition; this is Last man standing with a max alliance of 2 players at the end. We will play until it seems right to end the game.

Partnerships; only 1 partnership can be made between players. If you want to have partnerships with 1 player, and military alliances with the rest that is fine but only one partnership treaty.

The Last 2 players will be nagged by PBW automatically. You will also recieve notification when there are just 4 hours left until the turn will be processed. So please do not ask my why I send out an e-mail should you be one of the Last to upload. This is automated by PBW!

Vacation; If you are going to be away for an extended period of time during the course of this game I ask that you please notify me in the forums or by e-mail so that I do not kick you from the game. In some cases we may be able to put the game on LPU but in this game it will Last along time so missing 2 or 3 turns shouldn't hurt too badly if you set your empire up correctly before you leave and fill all of your queues.

If you miss more then 4 turns without notifying me and giving me a reason for the missed turns I will kick you and find a replacement player. So please let me know if you will be gone.

--
If you have any suggestions as to more rules we need to implement to prevent problems later in the game I'm open to them.

[ February 18, 2004, 13:25: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

As an idea - whynot just mod the talisman down to something like +75% ?

Otherwise, does just 'removing' it from fair play weaken the religous trait too much?


Glad to see you all in this uber game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

Last man standing please... no alliances of 2 at the end.

And I request we turn off the events As they can ruin a game

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Alright, no alliances at all. The more I think about it the more I would like it this way, that will assure this will be an even greater game! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I will change the game description.

Events will be turned off unless we get more individuals choosing to keep it on; if it is kept in the game it will be set on low and with the severity and low as well.

Cirvol - The Religious trait will still be helpful in the game with all of the Shrines you get from it. The Nature Shrine is the best of the 5 but they are all good, IMO. Not having the Talisman will not criple the trait.

I thought about modding it out or to tone it down but I would like to keep this game as stock as possible.

Tesco - Are you still willing to make the map for us? If so we will need 10 clusters of around 10 systems each and a total amount of planets in each cluster around 150 or so. Let me know if I should find someone else to make the map.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

I agree with Tesco, no events.

This is going to be good.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

I can create one with the new koth map mod i am working on.

Do we want an all planet map ??? That way each player will get around the same planets within each cluster ?

This should be talked about.

I can post a few examples for the players to look at and see if they like it or not.

This will also help with the dicussion. So tonight or tomorrow I will post 10 maps. And we can all vote on them using weight options. Then we can tally the numbers up and that can be the map. If you think that is a good idea.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

Sounds good to me. I think something beyond just all planets would be fun. Say one trinary star system per cluster (mmm triple-sphereworld system http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ) Asteroids would be good in moderation. Gives a use for planet-creators (especialy if if the asteroids have higher resource values than an average planet).

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

By no alliances, do you mean at the end of the game, or through he whole game?

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

oh yeah, one more thing - no quitting or surrendering or anything that will 'unbalance' the game for the rest of the players

i think you're all pretty hard core, which is good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

just make sure no one does anything stupid like get pissed off due an early war and quit - it kinda wrecks it for the rest of us

kthx http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

good thing about people who qiut like that is they are not invited back and their name is passed around to a few other pbw hosts

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just by the end of the game. You can have alliances through the game but when it comes down to deciding who wins the game it will be only 1 player so alliances will fall.

Tesco - I like the idea for choosing the maps. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

*bump*

Is there anything else that we need to discuss before we start?

Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
 

I should have the maps done by friday.... For a look over and vote.... If not it will be sunday.