Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Just my 2¢: there are always a few trolls lurking under any forum's bridge. I think most folks have learned to just ignore them. If you read through threads like this and just "read around" the more childish Posts, there is still a lot worth reading.

Such as this, for example:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
17. Fixed - A range check error would occur when a planet was rammed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never even thought of trying to crash a ship into a planet! Will this be a viable tactic after the new patch, I wonder? It is very cool the way new things are always being revealed. 8)


[This message has been edited by Psitticine (edited 14 December 2000).]

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Yeah. I wondered who came up with that one. I have to admit, I would not build one of my ships to ram it into a planet. Seems kinda like a waste of time. A ship with missles or direct fire weapons will do the job just fine and be ready for the next one.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

The ship was probably getting the living snot beaten out of it and was about to die so the owner decided to ram into the planet that was killing it. I know damn well I have done that with my ships but only against other ships. Like you I never contemplated ramming a planet. If it can actually be called ramming at all. The term doesn't seem quite right. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Comar:
Yeah. I wondered who came up with that one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably the Baron. I'm beginning to think he's Steve Allen in disguise. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Psitticine:
[b]Just my 2¢: there are always a few trolls lurking under any forum's bridge. I think most folks have learned to just ignore them. If you read through threads like this and just "read around" the more childish Posts, there is still a lot worth reading.

/[b]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ahhh.. Complain about game = troll. Very nice. I have a right to my opinion, and I continue to make it clear, because after each true statement, another sycophant states how much better this game is than some other game, or generally ignores the facts. I again direct you to the wonderful list of fixes listed throughout this post. Very nice, in fact wonderful since I have been fiending for a game in this genre for some time. However, the length of the list simply supports my commentary, and people take offense instead of acknowledging reality. Good luck to MM, and I praise him for his continued support of his products. However, don't ask for my money for an incomplete game; label the box "incomplete game", or advertise it as such on the Ordering website. Hah. That will be the day!

Troll indeed. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...s/rolleyes.gif

Jonathan

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Freyland:

Against better judgement I will say this, but only because I've seen you as a contibuting member over at the CM forum.


"Ahhh.. Complain about game = troll."

Incorrect. Many of us have 'complained about the game' Most of us are pointing out flaws in hopes that they can rectified. There is a difference between constructive and 'destructive' criticism.

I believe the 'Troll' was due to the 'attacks' (if you will) on other Forumers (Courageous for one). You can state your opinion without denigrating the opinions of others. Most of us have managed to do so.

So, FWIW, YES, you are entitled to your opinion. NO, every who enjoys the game and thinks highly of the company who releases it is not a sycophant. Most people here are freely admitting that there is certainly room for improvement. They arent 'blindly' defending the game as is.

Finally, if the game/company/forum bothers you so much, no one is forcing you to come here and post. You've spoken your mind. You know the situation now. You dont have to agree with it, but that the way it is. What possible good can Posts like "Shakes head. Blind......" accomplish?

For the sake of everyone here, please let it go and check back once the next patch is out and you might be a satisfied customer. If not, well, maybe trying selling your copy on Ebay? I dont think SG takes returns, but I'm not sure.


Talenn

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Richard:
5. Fixed - Troops on a planet you own will now increase the happiness of the populations on that planet.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wait just a minute! Does this mean that lifting troops off a newly conquered planet will make the population more angry as well? Even rebel/riot? I hope so but even if not it will at least provide an incentive to keep the troops dirtside after invasion.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Freyland...

I have no problem with you complaining, unlike some other Boards that won't get you Banned. HOwever calling people a "fool" and such can. I am just asking you to keep it civil.

As far as the game being complete it is very much so. Any game can be better but again I dare you to find a comparable game that has come out in the Last 3-5 years that is better.

You won't find one.

Aaron has a long history for listening to his community and that won't change with us...

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jubala:
Wait just a minute! Does this mean that lifting troops off a newly conquered planet will make the population more angry as well? Even rebel/riot? I hope so but even if not it will at least provide an incentive to keep the troops dirtside after invasion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, removing troops does not CAUSE anger. But now leaving them will help to reduce it. So, you don't necessarily have to leave the fleet that just conquered the planet sitting there for 5 turns just to control the anger levels. You can leave the troops instead and move on. Also, you can put a few troops on planets in a system with enemy activity and reduce the unhappiness it causes.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jourin:

MM agreed that SEIV would be released minus some features (like a good AI) as long as it had no obvious bugs. But MM also stated that they would continue to support the game with numerous patches to add these features and also fix any bugs that were discovered.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this is the problem in a nutshell. If MM KNOWINGLY released SEIV without good AI, it would have been nice to advise the customers of this so they could decide to buy or not based on this critical fact.

IF MM didn't know the AI was this poor, and it is poor, then he never played his own game.

I'm very pleased that MM is working on bug patches. However, I have never seen poor AI significantly improved in a game that went gold with Gomer Pyle AI. I think in this case the AI is actually being added and not improved....

I hear (loud and clear) that people who have dealt with MM have full confidence he will bring the product up to snuff.

Despite this, in my role as a consumer of this TOP DOLLAR game, I feel misled into buying it and that I threw away hard earned money.

If I had known that good AI was knowingly left out of the game I would never have purchased it until (if) it was added.

Yes, it isn't easy to develop a game, but that's what we pay game developers for.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

I think this is just a general misconception more than anything. I'm assuming Freyland is pointing to the long list of fixes/improvements and wonders why this wasn't already done before release. Correct me if I'm wrong. You have to keep in mind that MM has always done things this way, even before Shrapnel. The game isn't incomplete, there is just so much depth and tweaking to be done that development continues even after release.

That is not to say what you bought was a bugged game, remember all of the Malfador testers have been playing much more unstable Versions for many, many months. It wouldn't be released if it wasn't ready. I bought SE3 under the same set of circumstances, and to me it was fun seeing a patch every couple of weeks, a patch that wasn't just improvements but things I suggested. I couldn't wait for SE4 to be released because I wanted to see all the cool new mods. Suggest improvements, take a note from tampa, mephisto, talenn etc. and tweak things a bit. Telling us how much you don't like the game repeatedly just gets old, if you're that unsatisfied, just get a new game.


PS: I think that quote is a bit inaccurate, though he has the idea. To my knowledge Aaron never said, "lets release the game minus a good AI". I would imagine he assumed it was a work in progress like the other 85% of people on this forum do.



[This message has been edited by Warlord Adamus (edited 14 December 2000).]

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

One more bug --

It *seems* that if you set a colony ship to Minister control, and you've got both Colonization and Resupply ministers on, that the colony ship's pathing will ignore supply even when a few squares' worth of a detour would suffice. In my current game, a large number of minister-controlled colony ships are currently completely out of supply in a nebula system, even though, IIRC, all of my adjacent systems have resupply depots...

I don't seem to have this problem with pop transports or minelayers -- they normally pay attention. Just the colony pods.

------------------
-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Poor A.I.? Buy _Ascendancy_. Get back with
me. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

C//

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taqwus:
One more bug --

It *seems* that if you set a colony ship to Minister control, and you've got both Colonization and Resupply ministers on, that the colony ship's pathing will ignore supply even when a few squares' worth of a detour would suffice. In my current game, a large number of minister-controlled colony ships are currently completely out of supply in a nebula system, even though, IIRC, all of my adjacent systems have resupply depots...

I don't seem to have this problem with pop transports or minelayers -- they normally pay attention. Just the colony pods.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a general problem, actually. Your mine layers and population transports are probably just making short enough journeys that the problem doesn't appear. Any ships moving long distances will go straight to their destination without detouring for resupply even if it would cost no extra moement. You will see this when you send ships somewhere manually. They'll move within one square of a resupply depot and go right by it. "Smart navigation" where the ships use resupply depots any time it would cost no extra movement is something I've wanted for a while. Dunno how hard it would be to implement, though.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Gentlemen, (ladies)

Overall it seems MM is pretty dedicated on "tweaking" the game, and thats usually not the case with most companies. Have to say the game seems quite complete already and any other extras are added bonus. on bug issues, i never actively look for abuse bugs (ie. mothballing and uping production)
I never felt the need to try to get around "the game" to get ahead. Whats the point in playing to abuse a bug? Winning by using something unethical would remove the personal satisfaction of the win itself. At least it will be fixed in next patch.

Glad to see so many involved in discussion, and with the game creators interest in making the game into the best it can be.

very enjoyable game..i think i will go back and play a bit more.. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Jonny the Red ( uses a happy workers Collective..no empire here) :P

ready to liberate all your empires of their overlords to join the true collective...hehe



------------------
Waves his Red flag

Socialist

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

to you Jubala,


i saw your message a while back...add me into your ICQ, so when the Tcp/IP patch comes out later..we can play those long long
Online games :P

jjustice@kc.rr.com

or Socialist...on icq


glad to play you then!

Jonny the Red

------------------
Waves his Red flag

Socialist

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

C4

I will defend myself since you quoted me (out of context)

I think MM had a choice. Continue to work with the 50 unpaid beta testers (hey that got a free game and got to play it for x months so I consider them lucky) and fix all the minor problems or release it and continue to improve the game.

The community put pressure on MM to release the game, and MM complied but stated that the game will not be released with any major/obvious bugs.

AI level: The AI in SEIII was very good and it didn't cheat but it evolved. When you first play the game and are more worried about correcting bugs by testing weird scenarios the AI can be stupid and still give you a challenge. Only after humans play numerous games and evolve strategies does the stupidity of the AI show. Other companies compensate by letting the AI cheat and to me that ruins the game. I like playing against an AI that doesn't "cheat"

I think as people play the game and note the stupid things the AI does - then report them back to MM, the AI will improve. I am very good at strategy games and can easily beat most AIs on the top level, yet the AI in SEIII was challenging. I think the AI can evolve in SEIV to also be very challenging.

If you think the AI is doing something stupid - send your reasons why along with your approach plus the save game to MM and MAYBE they will be able to make the AI smarter.

The big difference between MM and ALL other companies is that MM will try while other companies usually just take your money and run.

I will let the matter drop, but please do not quote me out of context.

Thanks

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Courageous:
Poor A.I.? Buy _Ascendancy_. Get back with
me.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!!!! I remember that game. If the AI in SE4 has the aggressiveness of a sheep, the AI in Ascendancy would be a popsicle stick.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Jourin, Let the matter drop or not as it suits you.

I fail to see how your quote was out of context regarding the AI.

Please let me know how you feel your were misrepresented regarding the AI quote and I will be happy to issue you a formal apology if I did take it out of context.

[This message has been edited by C4 (edited 18 December 2000).]

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

I have been playing both solo and hotseat SPACE EMPIRES IV (SE4) for the past couple of weeks. With the present patch (v1.11), the game is very good. It is sooooo good that I can not wait until tcp/ip play is enabled. I hope that playing SE4 in the turn based mode will also permit one to use the tactical combat option (as this works perfectly in hotseat play). I liked MOO2 in hotseat play rather well; but, SE4 adds whole new dimensions to game play.

I look forward to the release of the new patch and the enabling of tcp/ip play. One nice added feature would be the inclusion of a timer for internet play so that, if you were playing in turn based mode, one could set limits as to how long a player is allowed to make a move (excluding combats, if possible)

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

No presure, but do you think the new patch will be out later this week?

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

1) Too many complaints about the AI. The truth is that computers are stupid, and it is hard to keep them from doing stupid things. You wind up having to script its behavior, and then it doesn't take a bright human very many games to figure out the flaws.

2) Personally, I don't mind the dumb AI because my time is so limited. I just want to have fun for a few hours. And SEIV delivers.

3) SEIV's AI is comparable to a lot of games that I've played. For example, Red Alert is pretty easy to beat, once you know how. Successive releases in that series have gotten smarter, but are still no match for a good human player. Same with Alpha Centauri.

4) For those who are frustrated by the AI stupidity in certain areas, here are some suggestions:
i) Make some technology unavailable, or just don't use it. Example: Mines, which the AI seems to have lots of trouble with.
ii) Role play. There are tons of options here. Examples: Pretend your race's sense of honor won't allow it to attack an enemy with overwhelming odds. Pretend your race is technophobic. Pretend your race is pacifist. Pretend your race is cowardly. Etc., etc., etc. Use your imagination and have some fun.
iii) Give the AI advantages. Examples: Use the setup button that allows it to produce faster. Don't use all your race points, or use them to enhance role play rather than to insure victory. Give the AI a head start.
iv) Don't exploit known weaknesses that you feel are unrealistic. Examples: Don't use stolen technology immediately; wait a bit. Don't remain allies with two warring AI empires, all the time ignoring their diplomatic ultimatums; choose one and reject the other. Don't demand anyone's home planet as tribute and don't accept it if offered.


Yes, in some ways these suggestions would limit the game, but the point is that you can have a lot of fun with the stupid AI. Then you can remove restrictions as MM improves the AI, and it will be like getting periodic expansion packs.

5) The debate about AI opponents vs human opponents is missing an important point: most games have inherent flaws which will be exploitable by an experienced human opponent, which eventually either ruins the game or turns it into a chess match. So after a while, human players aren't much more fun than AI. But SEIV has a lot of complicatedness and customizability, so hopefully it won't get old so fast. Every time you find "the way to win" you can mod the files and take that way away.

[This message has been edited by dmm (edited 18 December 2000).]

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

1) Too many complaints about the AI. The truth is that computers are stupid, and it is hard to keep them from doing stupid things. You wind up having to script its behavior, and then it doesn't take a bright human very many games to figure out the flaws.

2) Personally, I don't mind the dumb AI because my time is so limited. I just want to have fun for a few hours. And SEIV delivers.

3) SEIV's AI is comparable to a lot of games that I've played. For example, Red Alert is pretty easy to beat, once you know how. Successive releases in that series have gotten smarter, but are still no match for a good human player. Same with Alpha Centauri.

4) For those who are frustrated by the AI stupidity in certain areas, here are some suggestions:
i) Make some technology unavailable, or just don't use it. Example: Mines, which the AI seems to have lots of trouble with.
ii) Role play. There are tons of options here. Examples: Pretend your race's sense of honor won't allow it to attack an enemy with overwhelming odds. Pretend your race is technophobic. Pretend your race is pacifist. Pretend your race is cowardly. Etc., etc., etc. Use your imagination and have some fun.
iii) Give the AI advantages. Examples: Use the setup button that allows it to produce faster. Don't use all your race points, or use them to enhance role play rather than to insure victory. Give the AI a head start.
iv) Don't exploit known weaknesses that you feel are unrealistic. Examples: Don't use stolen technology immediately; wait a bit. Don't remain allies with two warring AI empires, all the time ignoring their diplomatic ultimatums; choose one and reject the other. Don't demand anyone's home planet as tribute and don't accept it if offered.


Yes, in some ways these suggestions would limit the game, but the point is that you can have a lot of fun with the stupid AI. Then you can remove restrictions as MM improves the AI, and it will be like getting periodic expansion packs.

4) The debate about AI opponents vs human opponents is missing an important point: most games have inherent flaws which will be exploitable by an experienced human opponent, which eventually either ruins the game or turns it into a chess match. So after a while, human players aren't much more fun than AI. But SEIV has a lot of complicatedness and customizability, so hopefully it won't get old so fast. Every time you find "the way to win" you can mod the files and take that way away.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Dmm,
Agree with you entirely. I stopped using mines several games ago and have begun to avoid doing things that I know the AI is weak at - still enjoy the game anyway. The ultimate challenge as we all know is human opponents so the AI should be considered as practice. I always try to play in the manner that I would against a human opponent and avoid taking advantage of the AI's blind spots - only the blind spot concerning mines is annoying as it makes it hard to practice tactics.

Anyway, the important thing is that the game system hangs together well, has many options (game and strategy) and is very flexible.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dmm:


ii) Role play. There are tons of options here. Examples: Pretend your race's sense of honor won't allow it to attack an enemy with overwhelming odds. Pretend your race is technophobic. Pretend your race is pacifist. Pretend your race is cowardly. Etc., etc., etc. Use your imagination and have some fun. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hi DMM

I remember doing that with Lords of Magic (awesome game, once fixed {rant, rant})... it was kind of silly that the all-powerful, all-feared Evil Villain could be killed early if you hit his Stack with the right units. So, I "pretended" that to fight Balkoth, my stack had to have a Greater Artifact, otherwise they had to run. Made for interesting games.....

Jonathan

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

dmm:

While I agree that the AI will never be up to human level competition, it would be nice if it was at least aggressive in it's attacks. As it is now, it blatantly ignores enemy fleets and worlds even when it has obviously superior firepower. This should not be the case and its something that should be readily fixable. Even SE3 didnt act this way most of the time, so I KNOW that it can be done within the framework of the game system.

Its one thing to 'roleplay' your race etc but its quite another to have to TRY not to win. I occasionally see large AI fleets and think 'cool, this time I actually might have to fight!', but no, next turn their ships are nowhere to be seen. Maybe one or two are left floating around but the rest are gone. Often, its to the scrapyard...

As far as multiplayer etc. Yes, I agree that that will be the true challenge, but at this time its hard to get a game going without the option of TCP-IP etc. PBEM is a HUGE commitment of time. Hotseat is fine, but its problematic getting people together for an ongoing game. So that primarily leaves single player. I'd daresay that most people are in the same boat in this regard and that is the reason for the general outcry about the AI's ability.

Customizing etc are fantastic abilities and will keep the game fresh longer. No doubt there. But you dont have to even look for ways to win the game. As long as you are halfway competent, its not too tough. All the added options in the world wont matter if you can win with ease regardless of what you do.

IMO, a strong(er) AI is a must for a 4X game. The AI must compete and it must give you the immersive feeling of dealing with alien/foreign governments. If it fails to do so, most of the rest doesnt count for much except for the people who can manage to get multiplayer time in.

SE4 is a great game with alot of potential. But lately I find that I am spending more time fiddling with data and graphics than playing. Its just not that much fun to continually pummel the AI even when I give my self 'roleplaying handicaps'. I want the AI to force me to run for cover or at least surprise me every now and then.

I am very much looking forward to the patch in hopes that it makes the game more challenging. No, I dont think it will ever provide the challenge of playing another human (nor should it be expected to), but it should at least look like it is attempting to win. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif IMO it should at least err on the side of aggression rather than on being too passive. That alone would breathe alot of life into the game.

Talenn

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Talenn, I agree 100%. Even when TCP/IP will be possible, there will still be AIs in the game (e.g., its mostly like this when you play CIV II over the web). The AI has to become a challenge if this game is to become a true winner.

Anyway, does anybody have news regarding the status of the new patch ? I mailed Aaron a bug report Last week, and in his answer he said that the patch would be out Last Friday or yesterday at latest. I rather see the delay as a good sign: maybe MM is working to include some real AI improvements (other than increased aggressiveness) before releasing the patch for the Christmas break.

BTW, to the extent that I find the current AI lousy, I find MM's responsiveness great. If you report a bug or make a suggestion, you usually have a short reply the next day. Do not flood them, but why do the programmers amongst you not try to help Aaron a little and send him some AI algorithms (e.g. target identification, "memory", ...)

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Aaron found a late bug in the patch and held it back from being released. I should know more today and hopefully we can post it later today.

Thanks for the patience.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Thank you very much for the update Richard!

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

The following was posted on the "What's New" page for Malfador Machinations:

12/19/00 - SE4 Patch 2 Available
The second patch for Space Empires IV will be available here on 12/20/00. This patch includes all previous patches. It includes numerous bug fixes plus the all new Combat Replay viewer. Much like a vcr, the Combat Replay will allow you to watch combats that are reported in your Log Window. See the manual pages for complete details.

We've added a link on our site to the Global 100 lists. If you like SE4, please take the time to vote for it!

In other news, Malfador Machinations is going on a much-needed vacation. We'll be closed down from December 20th through January 4th. You can still order the game through Shrapnel Games and visit their forums to talk with other players. We will not be answering any emails during this time. As soon as we're back, we'll continue work on the next patch, the Map Editor, and the Multiplayer enhancements!

Hope everyone has a very merry Christmas!

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

The latest since 1.19.

Version 1.21:
1. Fixed - Range check error when you have 255 systems and you give
a ship orders to move to another system.
2. Fixed - Increased planet finite resource starting values.
3. Added - Added default values in the Settings.txt file for the
Maximum number of ships and units in the game.
4. Fixed - AI was not always using damaged ships or sending them
to be repaired.
5. Fixed - Increased the speed of combat execution.
6. Fixed - AI was not spreading out targeting of seekers based on
anticipated damage to target.
7. Fixed - Fleet leaders were still not detecting correctly when they
were surrounded in combat and should break formation.
8. Fixed - The Drushocka and Praetorian were building fighters with
only Shield Depleters.
9. Fixed - Jubilant has been mispelled for quite a while.
10. Fixed - Added empire files for all empires.
11. Fixed - Krill, Terran, and Toltayan empires were not always using
all of their racial points.
12. Fixed - Combat Replay would not show the vehicle report when moving
from a fighter group to a new fighter group.
13. Fixed - Improved AI's use of fleets.
14. Fixed - Improved AI's used of Planet creators.

Version 1.20:
1. Fixed - A colony with no population could still suffer from
a firestorm event.
2. Fixed - Ground combat would continue on the turn that a surrender
took place.
3. Fixed - High numbers of systems would not work correctly using the
Cluster quadrant layout.
4. Added - Added fields to the Settings.txt file to specify what values
and abilities a newly created storm will receive.
5. Fixed - Changed the text for the Cloaks to say the correct level
of scanning/detection it prevents.
6. Fixed - AI vehicle design files were not using the new ability
names for Combat To Hit Add and Combat to Hit Dec.
7. Fixed - Sometimes a damaged ship that was retrofitted would
result in undamaged components.
8. Fixed - If the order of a construction queue was changed, it was
not clearing the time for the item currently under
construction.
9. Changed - Changed Emergency Build Rate to 150%.
10. Fixed - When you exit a combat replay, the combat music would keep
playing.
11. Fixed - In Tactical Combat, Clear All Group Assignments would not
redraw the display to clear the group icons.
12. Fixed - "Bad Index" error from the Colonies window.
13. Fixed - If a race had a treaty of Subjugation or Protectorate, their
research points would be capped at 50,000.
14. Fixed - The Up Arrow on the Report window would display over the
Comps or Cargo display when closing the Scrap window.
15. Fixed - Fill Build Queue was not checking if the items were valid
for the empires current technology level.
16. Fixed - When loading a previously saved empire into a different player
number than previously, their designs would be messed up.
17. Fixed - Simultaneous Game - The Seeking Attack order would not cleared
if it was targeted on a planet and the colony had been destroyed.
18. Fixed - Improved the AI's scrapping of uneeded facilities in a finite
resource game.
19. Fixed - Remove tech area Ship Construction level 10 (it was empty).
20. Fixed - Decreased the AI's armor usage on their designs.
21. Fixed - Increase the AI's point defense usage on their designs.
22. Fixed - AI was not using its AI Strategy file correctly.
23. Fixed - AI was not giving the Kamikaze ships the correct strategy.
24. Fixed - In a finite resources game, planets would still produce resources
even after they had reached a value of 0.
25. Fixed - If a player's fleet encountered enemy mines in the same sector
as his own mines, he would receive a message about his minefield
being triggered against "enemy" ships.
26. Fixed - Improved the description for the Boarding Parties and Security Stations.
27. Added - Added fields to the Settings.txt file to specify a maximum number of
mines or satellties that a player can have in a sector.
28. Fixed - The Colony Window would display a patch of white if there were a large
number of displayed facilities.
29. Added - Added a confirmation message when you try to send a surrender message.
30. Fixed - Improved the Transport Minister so that they only move populations to
planets with atmospheres they can breathe.
31. Changed - Changed the Path.txt file so that it now lists a new directory to use.
This directory can contain replacements directory for all of the
directories that SE4 uses. If a directory is present in the mod
directory, all of the files that SE4 needs must be present. So if you
replace the Data directory, your new directory must have all of the
data files present. The only exception to this rule is for bitmaps.
If a bitmap cannot be found in a mod directory, the game will then
look back into the original SE4 directory to find it. In this way, you
can replace everything in the game, but not need to include all of the
graphics as well.
32. Fixed - Range check error during combat.
33. Fixed - Point Blank strategy sometimes would cause ships to run away from the
target.
34. Fixed - Range Check Error with a large number of units in a group during combat.
35. Fixed - Range Check Error with huge numbers of shields being generated during combat.
36. Fixed - Range Check Error with a fleet of more than 256 ships during combat.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Is there any word on "Starting Tech Levels?"

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Sounds great! Thanks Richard.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Thanks Richard. This is great to read, and really keeps our interest up. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

------------------
"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Patric Stewart as Captain Picard
UCP/TCO Ship Yards

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

cool, always good to read these. I hate to grumble, but i think emergency build should be ballanced by increasing the expense incured, not decreasing its effectiveness. just like with the mine sweepers, I feel like features are being removed from the game.

ah well, cant please 'em all.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Any word on changing the way population/weapons platforms recieve damage?

i.e. certain weapons can kill population but not weapons platforms, and vice-versa.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

I hate to ask the obvious question but, when will the 1.20-1.21 patch be released ?

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

I have 2 issues referencing Richard's post. Item 19 states the removal of Tech 10 for ships since it is empty. I for one use that tech level..I created an entire series of ships for all the races that use Tech level 10. I really don't see a reason to take it out, just provides another option for modders.

The second issue is about a map editor. I know there has been discussion about having one on past Posts. I had been hoping it was to be availabe on this next patch. Any idea if and when this can be expected?

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sabre21:
I have 2 issues referencing Richard's post. Item 19 states the removal of Tech 10 for ships since it is empty. I for one use that tech level..I created an entire series of ships for all the races that use Tech level 10. I really don't see a reason to take it out, just provides another option for modders.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well if you want that tech level add it back in http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif As a modder you can easily do that, they might as well remove things that a unmodified Version of the game doesn't use.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Thank you, Aaron. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon10.gif I think mods will now be much easier to package, install and manage thanks to change #31 listed under v1.20. Can't wait.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Yes, the mod directory is great. Thanks for the info Richard.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Mods directory , improved use of AI fleets (if it works) and continous bug elimination, all this is good news. However, I am still missing further AI improvements, especially making the computer opponents finally follow through on their attacks (which may be associated with the AI's retrofit/scrap franzy). Hope this will be addressed before the patcj comes out.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Mods directory , improved use of AI fleets (if it works) and continous bug elimination, all this is good news. However, I am still missing further AI improvements, especially making the computer opponents finally follow through on their attacks (which may be associated with the AI's retrofit/scrap franzy). Hope this will be addressed before the patcj comes out.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

What about the cloaking minister???????

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Sounds wonderful. Do we have a release date?

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Richard - thanks for this info. Sounds like the changes to the AI_Strategy file and fleets should help us AI modders a lot. I just hope the Cloaking minister is fixed prior to release http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif (for the Darlok'sake of course)

Mac- In an e-mail I received from Aaron early Last week, he indicated that the patch should be out "early next month" So I would assume that if testing goes well, we should see it out by the end of this week or early next week.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Aaron told me today he is aware of the cloaking problem and he is trying to fix it in time for the next patch.

I hope he is successfull.

[This message has been edited by Emperor Zodd (edited 29 January 2001).]

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

No... no cloaking. Not that!

That would be awesome. But I'm very, very scared now. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Has anyone reported the error message you get when you accidentally press 'L' to launch fighters, and you've selected a fighter group instead of the carrier?

Is the contact info for reporting bugs in the readme files with the game?

The other issue I wish they would work on deals with the 'Repeat Project' option in the build queues. I can't tell you how frustrating it is when you find you have 15 space ports on a planet. Or worse, you spend 20 turns wasting resources buiding facilities when the planet is full...

Of course, the memory leak is still the most annoying. I think it is definitely related to fighters.

Re: Up to date beta patch info..
 

Tampa, I hope the "AI's better use of fleets" is not due only to a modification of the "AI strategy" file. Everybody can modify this and you mod-masters are already doing a very good job. The true reasons for the AI weakness however lie in the hardcoded parts of the program. I hope it is there that the AI fleet tactics will be improved.

Furthermore, I think that the AI should carry out its offensives much more consequently !! (Will have to put that at the end of each post - worked for Cathargo, why shouldn't it work for AI stupidity ?)