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-   -   Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=12435)

narf poit chez BOOM July 9th, 2004 02:51 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
My dad never spanked me, but knowing that he would if he had to kept some of my worst impulses under control.

Paul1980au July 10th, 2004 08:35 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
So can they ban boxing, gridiron, US invasions of othre countries, george W Bush being on the news (its a terrorfiying image to behold the ugly mug - even chaney is more attractive), how about shopping (i mean women and violence against their cash balances and credit cards)

Atrocities July 10th, 2004 08:39 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
You can never know what they can ban until they ban it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Look at what prohobition did to the economy. Many believe that it lead to the colaps of the US economy back in the day as it put so many people out of work at one time and lead to economic stress that ultimately brought down the stock market and ignited the great depression.

Gandalf Parker July 10th, 2004 02:36 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Good quote. Heinlein and StarShip Troopers.

Or as someone once said (I think it was me)..
"Sometimes scientific theory is created from direct observation of reality, and sometimes it is created in spite of it."

Or to paraphrase Spock. "It is not logical, but it is often true."

Raging Deadstar July 10th, 2004 03:05 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Quote:
Originally posted by General Woundwort:
Permit me to toss in a quotation from Heinlein's Starship Troopers on the topic of corporal punishment...
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There's only one way this thread can go now that Starship Troopers has been mentioned! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Randallw July 10th, 2004 03:16 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
For me personally the best thing about the movie is that it convinced me to buy and read the book. The book, as I'm sure anyone who knows will agree, is totally different from the movie.

oleg July 10th, 2004 04:13 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Raging Deadstar:
Sometimes i am incredibly thankful about living in england, although even our government is taking things a bit far in some measures it's now taking. The whole debate on a Ban on Smacking children and numerous other issues is getting quite worrying...
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Smaking children ban is a quite reasonable legislation compared with "Animal Cruelty Law" that may impose a prison sentence for killing snails, slugs and insects in your garden... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Wardad July 10th, 2004 05:33 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
My Dad spanked me. Unfortunitly it was not balanced with an ability to care about anothers feelings or deal with his own. Unfortunitly I did not learn bargining skills from my parents.

Frankly, I'd rather be hit and grumbling, then have to put up with some of the new age mind bending pyscho bable bull####. You know, the BS that demands obediance (oops correctness)in thought, feelings, and actions.

Yea, I got spank, but lost respect for him for some good reasons. It got so trivial. One time, I pretended to enjoy the spanking and asked for more, more and more. My mom finally pulled him off of me before I broke (victory!). I had trouble sitting for 2 days. But... he had to see a shrink, and I got away with %^$# the next 2 years.

[ July 11, 2004, 01:40: Message edited by: Wardad ]

Renegade 13 July 10th, 2004 06:58 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Spanking should be allowed in the home, as long as it does not go overboard. It really doesn't hurt that much, and there is no permanent damage, so why shouldn't parents be allowed to smack them if they need it?? However, it should stop at a certain age, and be replaced by other punishments. I mean, I was spanked as a kid when i was far too old for it. It did not hurt, but was humiliating. I still bear a grudge against my dad for that. I will never forgive him for that. I don't even remember the original issue, but the memory still stings. If he tried to do it again, he'd end up with something broken.

When a kid is in their teens, there are better punishments. If they're like me, someone who spends many hours a day in front of the computer, then take the computer away, or at least threaten to. That's a great punishment. But be careful; when kids get older, they can punish their parents right back; just ask my parents. I can make their life hell if I feel like it, and they know it. It makes them more reasonable, and more likely to sympathize with my point of view.

So my point is, sure, corporal punishment works, at least for the first decade of the child's life. But after that, it is not necessary, and can be replaced by something more effective.

Gandalf Parker July 10th, 2004 07:07 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
No extreme is ever a good idea. Anything can be carried too far. Any type of training, teaching, raising of any creature or human; is bound to fail its goal if it uses only punishment or uses only praise.

narf poit chez BOOM July 10th, 2004 07:15 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Atrocities:
You can never know what they can ban until they ban it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Look at what prohobition did to the economy. Many believe that it lead to the colaps of the US economy back in the day as it put so many people out of work at one time and lead to economic stress that ultimately brought down the stock market and ignited the great depression.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Serious question here - Then, what's this dustbowl thing I've been hearing about?

General Woundwort July 11th, 2004 01:05 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Permit me to toss in a quotation from Heinlein's Starship Troopers on the topic of corporal punishment...

Quote:
"Mr. Dubois," a girl blurted out, "but why? Why didn't they spank little kids when they needed it and use a good dose of the strap on any older ones who deserved it -- the sort of lesson they wouldn't forget! I mean ones who did things really bad. Why not?"

"I don't know," he had answered grimly, "except that the time-tested method of instilling social virtue and respect for law in the minds of the young did not appeal to a pre-scientific pseudo-professional class who called themselves 'social workers' or sometimes 'child psychologists.' It was too simple for them, apparently, since anybody could do it, using only the patience and firmness needed in training a puppy. I have sometimes wondered if they cherished a vested interest in disorder -- but that is unlikely; adults almost always act from conscious 'highest motives' no matter what their behavior."

"But -- good heavens!" the girl answered. "I didn't like being spanked any more than any kid does, but when I needed it, my mama delivered. The only time I ever got a switching in school I got another one when I got home -- and that was years and years ago. I don't ever expect to be hauled up in front of a judge and sentenced to a flogging; you behave yourself and such things don't happen. I don't see anything wrong with our system; it's a lot better than not being able to walk outdoors for fear of your life -- why that's horrible!"

"I agree. Young lady, the tragic wrongness of what those well-meaning people did, contrasted with what they thought they were doing, goes very deep. They had no scientifc theory of morals. They did have a theory of morals and they tried to live by it (I should not have sneered at their motives), but their theory was wrong -- half of it fuzzy-headed wishful thinking, half of it rationalized charlatanry. The more earnest they were, the farther it led them astray."...

Mr. Dubois then turned to me. "I told you that 'juveline delinquent' is a contriction in terms. 'Delinquent' means 'failing in duty.' But duty is an adult virtue -- indeed a juvenile becomes an adult when, and only when, he acquires a knowledge of duty and embraces it as dearer than the self-love he was born with. There never was, there cannot be, a 'juvenile delinquent.' But for every juvenile criminal there are always one or more adult delinquents -- people of mature years who either do not know their duty, or who, knowing it, fail.

"And that was the soft spot which destroyed what was in many ways an admirable culture. The junior hoodlums who roamed their streets were symptoms of a greater sickness; their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights' ... and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure."
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">EDIT - the full quotation of the passage can be found Online here - http://www.magma.ca/~yeti/troopers.html

I don't agree with everything Heinlein says here, but his basic analysis of our situation is keen - especially when you consider he wrote it in the 1950's...

[ July 10, 2004, 12:09: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Beck July 11th, 2004 01:18 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Quote:
Serious question here - Then, what's this dustbowl thing I've been hearing about?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Midwest, USA. The open prairie was being farmed by homesteaders. The breaking of the sod to make it suitable for farming also meant that the protection the sod gave from air-borne soil erosion was also lost. This isn't significant when the moisure content of the soil is high enough which was the case for a number of years. The early thirties saw a drought hit the region and the moisture content wasn't there to hold the soil. The great winds that come down from the Rockies as storm fronts move east would sweep down farmers' fields lifting huge amounts of topsoil into large dust storms. The dust would penetrate into everything. Many of the storms would Last for days coating everything with a fine layer of dust. The erosion that occurred was made worst by the popular farming method of the time of plowing in long continuous furrows. With nothing to stop it, the wind would run down the furrows stripping the field bare of its topsoil. Many farms were destroyed by the lack of rain and lost of topsoil. This lead to a great exodus of many of the affected people to California along US Route 66 which is why this road became know as the mother road (so named by John Steinbeck in the book, The Grapes of Wrath, the name stuck).

Wardad July 11th, 2004 02:46 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Gandalf Parker:
No extreme is ever a good idea. Anything can be carried too far. Any type of training, teaching, raising of any creature or human; is bound to fail its goal if it uses only punishment or uses only praise.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">definitly... no one trick pony will work.

actually the Bible (hey, I can't belive I'm quoting it) advises ENCOURAGEMENT, as a life style. The Rod is used for the rare but expediantly needed correction (ex. do not throw toys at your brother,...after a warning...).

narf poit chez BOOM July 12th, 2004 06:40 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Beck:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Serious question here - Then, what's this dustbowl thing I've been hearing about?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Midwest, USA. The open prairie was being farmed by homesteaders. The breaking of the sod to make it suitable for farming also meant that the protection the sod gave from air-borne soil erosion was also lost. This isn't significant when the moisure content of the soil is high enough which was the case for a number of years. The early thirties saw a drought hit the region and the moisture content wasn't there to hold the soil. The great winds that come down from the Rockies as storm fronts move east would sweep down farmers' fields lifting huge amounts of topsoil into large dust storms. The dust would penetrate into everything. Many of the storms would Last for days coating everything with a fine layer of dust. The erosion that occurred was made worst by the popular farming method of the time of plowing in long continuous furrows. With nothing to stop it, the wind would run down the furrows stripping the field bare of its topsoil. Many farms were destroyed by the lack of rain and lost of topsoil. This lead to a great exodus of many of the affected people to California along US Route 66 which is why this road became know as the mother road (so named by John Steinbeck in the book, The Grapes of Wrath, the name stuck). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks.

tesco samoa July 12th, 2004 09:16 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Hey AT... why are you not up in arms over this

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5411741/site/newsweek/

American counterterrorism officials, citing what they call "alarming" intelligence about a possible Qaeda strike inside the United States this fall, are reviewing a proposal that could allow for the postponement of the November presidential election in the event of such an attack, NEWSWEEK has learned.

Just remember your country held an election during a civil war and some elections in 1814 with England wondering around a few states....


I think that if this ever happened.. Canada should switch the grades on their traintracks....

AMF July 12th, 2004 09:32 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
I love the Last line of the article:

" "We are reviewing the issue to determine what steps need to be taken to secure a GOP win in the election," says Brian Roehrkasse, a Homeland spokesman."

Just kidding. I added the "a GOP win" part...


Quote:
Originally posted by tesco samoa:
Hey AT... why are you not up in arms over this

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5411741/site/newsweek/

American counterterrorism officials, citing what they call "alarming" intelligence about a possible Qaeda strike inside the United States this fall, are reviewing a proposal that could allow for the postponement of the November presidential election in the event of such an attack, NEWSWEEK has learned.

Just remember your country held an election during a civil war and some elections in 1814 with England wondering around a few states....


I think that if this ever happened.. Canada should switch the grades on their traintracks....
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

primitive July 12th, 2004 10:34 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Funny, or http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
http://www.comics.com/wash/candorvil...4070149414.gif

LordOffender July 12th, 2004 11:58 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Don't take this the wrong way, and I quote:

"Lets all hope that Kerry and his new lap dog don't win. God only knows how bad things will be after those two fence walking, freedom stealing, right taking, hug the tree, park the car, tax everything, uber left wing communistic demon slave of Satan get into office."

ROFLMAO..... Oh wait, he is telling the truth!

And Primitive, Clinton had his scape goats as well. We all remember operations: “Get Clinton Off The Front Page I, II, III, IV, and so on.”

I shudder to think how horrible it will be if Kerry and whatever his name is, get into office. IT would be worse than Dan Quale winning.

Will July 13th, 2004 12:05 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
When I saw that proposal, I was reminded again of some similarities I saw between the current US government and B5... appeals to patriotism as unconditional love of government rather than of country, fear of other cultures ("freedom fries", anyone?), new organizations created for the security of the country ("Nightwatch" -> "Homeland Security" and/or "TSA"), isolation from previous allies, increased military operations...

And now, a proposal for using a relatively small disturbance to enact what is in effect martial law, and "delaying" the election. If this gets any farther than the proposal that it is now, I start applying for citizenship elsewhere, because this country will not be mine any longer.

primitive July 13th, 2004 12:11 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Quote:
Originally posted by LordOffender:
.

And Primitive, Clinton had his scape goats as well. We all remember operations: “Get Clinton Off The Front Page I, II, III, IV, and so on.”
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure he had. And of course his crime was much worse too. Whats inventing a war, corruption (Haliburton), torturing prisoners and the patriot act compared to getting a b***job on the side. Forgive my for my warped European values http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Raging Deadstar July 13th, 2004 12:19 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Quote:
Originally posted by primitive:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by LordOffender:
.

And Primitive, Clinton had his scape goats as well. We all remember operations: “Get Clinton Off The Front Page I, II, III, IV, and so on.”
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure he had. And of course his crime was much worse too. Whats inventing a war, corruption (Haliburton), torturing prisoners and the patriot act compared to getting a b***job on the side. Forgive my for my warped European values http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Primitive: You get the full 5 stars for making me fall of my chair after midnight in a fit of laughter. Well done my fellow european! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Fyron July 13th, 2004 12:28 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Delaying the election wouldn't fly too well... it is quite unconstitutional and illegal to do, in the US...

Will July 13th, 2004 12:33 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Raging Deadstar:
Primitive: You get the full 5 stars for making me fall of my chair after midnight in a fit of laughter. Well done my fellow european! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ditto http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

And Fyron, I know it won't fly too well. Hence my immediate defection should it happen (and maybe it shows my cynicism that I don't doubt for a second that this government would try to pull this). I can still try to fix the land of my birth without the danger of physically being there.

tesco samoa July 13th, 2004 03:36 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
If it did happen it would set a bad precidence for all future governments..

Trudeau. Could not stand him. But I am glad he pushed to get rid of the war measures act.

When it was envoked here in canada. Over 400 people were arrested in Vancouver because of it.

Sometimes the concept of doing the right thing blinds you from what is the right thing. ( now was that not an interesting movie )

Atrocities July 13th, 2004 07:26 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Never mind, I thought I was being funny but it did not translate well from my mind to print. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Sorry guys. No gutter humor tonight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ July 13, 2004, 06:33: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Will July 13th, 2004 07:34 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Gah! AT, don't edit while I'm posting! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ July 13, 2004, 06:35: Message edited by: Will ]

Paul1980au July 13th, 2004 10:42 AM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Lol one can get gutter humour anywhere on the web lol

zen. July 15th, 2004 10:59 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Will...that's a good point about the parallels you drew between B5 and current situations. Guess I don't have enough B5 on my mind to have seen that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As an American, I'm just disappointed in how far world opinion of us has fallen in recent years. For a while, I felt we had a chance of uniting the world through our exports of bad Hollywood movies and Barney toys and videos.

zen

Ed Kolis July 15th, 2004 11:33 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Everyone knows Japanese culture will eventually rule the world... GO GO MUTANT SAMURAI ANIME BLINKING SEIZURE ROBOT KIDS!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

narf poit chez BOOM July 15th, 2004 11:49 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
That is why I find most anime childish.

Atrocities July 15th, 2004 11:51 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Ever wonder why the japanese always make their women characters look like some super american model? Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I think they have bizzar american women fantacies.

zen. July 16th, 2004 07:33 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Probably the allure of women who can be like a foot taller than you with legs that go on for miles. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Fair enough, since I know enough caucasian guys who have 'yellow fever' (= dig asian chicks).

I do like Japanese entertainment, though... I practically grew up on Star Blazers and Speed Racer. I just hope they don't overcrowd those little islands of theirs and start plunging into the sea. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

I suppose that's what arcologies are for. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

zen

Raging Deadstar July 17th, 2004 07:06 PM
Re: Rumor: Kerry & Edwards Want to Ban SEIV
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Ed Kolis:
Everyone knows Japanese culture will eventually rule the world... GO GO MUTANT SAMURAI ANIME BLINKING SEIZURE ROBOT KIDS!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The Japanese are definitely the msot advanced nation on earth! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Any nation that can somehow make fish that can survive in space without going insane are a force to be reckoned with. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Now we know just who was responsible for Trooper's Spaceshark shipset http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif


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