Re: Why such a high price?
 

Edit:
I checked out that thread on heaven.

Copied and pasted from there:

"I downloaded the demo for Dominions....not sure i really like it though....It is complex though, that I will give it. Just not sure I would want to pay 25 bucks for it....
What are all of your guys' thoughts on Dominions? Why do you like it?

It just seems to me at the moment, that although complex, the game is simple....it just seems that it is the same thing....EVERY turn....plus, I wish that the units had some better artwork....not graphics, just some artwork....

Like I said, I think it is a very complex game....but at the same time, it seems very simple once you get past the complexity of it all...."

Check out his Last sentence. I agree with him, totally about that.

[ September 22, 2003, 21:35: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: Why such a high price?
 

i believe that was my post....and my opinion of the game has changed, once i started really understand the game more....and especially since i went on and bought the full Version....

Now, I would post:

"this is THE best game I have laid my hands on....EVER....and Dominions II...WOW....can't wait..."

Re: Why such a high price?
 

WTF?! The game will cost 50$ + shipping?
BLEH! I won't buy it. I will just download it from the net for FREE.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

troll...

Re: Why such a high price?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not convinced this is a good way to argue that Dom is superior to AoW, most Dom nations have very similar units as well. The difference of a point or two here or there is virtually identical to the differences between the AoW units. The magic system in dom is however significantly different, and more interesting than the system in AoW, as is the variety in creating magic items.

The main difference to me between AoW and Dom is the pace of the battles. In AoW you typically have battles every turn, often multiple battles. In Dom it seems that especailly the crucial battles have alot of positioning and build up prior to their launch, this is something that is mostly lacking in AoW due to the mechanics of the game. In AoW the map is completely discrete, and stacks can move most anywhere they desire. In Dom you are limited to provinces, its a more abstracted game element that leads by design to more concentrated armies, and more strategic thinking in as far as when to launch an attack, and how to defend your borders. In AoW you essentially cannot defend your borders, though the borders themselves are less important than they are in Dom. This is a significant difference in how one would approach playing either game, and if someone is beholden to one style they will probably have trouble liking or getting used to the other (as there were massive debates on surrender in AoW).

Anyway the differences between AoW and Dom have little to do with units and spells and the like, and much more to do with the fundamental design of the game, and the excecution of that design, that's why its very possible to like both games while feeling that they offer very different things. Unlike most (I said most) RTSs where its just different gfx, but nearly identical gameplay from one game to the next. That is either you like RTS games in general (the preference here is more about weather you like fantasy or WWII or futuristic crap) or you don't like any of them as the gameplay is so much of the same thing over and over.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

actually, it is 45 dollars....plus shipping...but...if you pre-order it, it is 5 bucks off....so...hmmm....anyways

Re: Why such a high price?
 

Is there any point to buy this game for that much? You can download it for free. Even if you don't know jack about warez, just load up google, and type in warez. You will have 5000 warez sites on your list. I will have the game faster than you, and for free! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

IF I will like it, MAYBE I will order it! I always buy GOOD games. If I won't like it, I will play with the warez. [Like almost everyone.]

Re: Why such a high price?
 

*troll=ignore*

Re: Why such a high price?
 

...because clearly dominions 2 is going to be a top priority in illegal software distribution...and it will appear on 5000 sites before it even ships...
They already have things for people who want to try games free...they're called DEMOS. And if the company never releases any demo then I don't like them anyway.
So why dont you just try the demo when it appears and then you will buy the game because it is GOOD without any need to do anything illegal.
If not you can leave.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

I'd have to agree with you licker...but I want to point out that there are occasionally RTS games that are different. Kohan I know of, not to imply there arent more. And Total Annihilation gets points for atmosphere with its music and its cannons that recoil when firing and explosions that light up the screen and its EARLY introduction of 3d to RTS and...where'd I put that CD again? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Why such a high price?
 

Illegal or not, 10/8 are playing with warez games. You cannot do anything against it. CD-Keys or copy protections won't help at all.
If a game is not good enough, and you don't want to waste your money, you just play with the warez. Yes you can try the demo,so you can decide that 1. You will buy the game if it is really good, 2. You will download the warez Version if the game is mediocre, so you can play with it, and delete it later on. 3. Do not download the warez, and do not buy the game, if it is crap.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hehe, that's why I qualified my opinions on RTS by saying 'most' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I'm the first to admit that I dislike RTS, and that includes Kohan and TA, I just don't seem to have the capicity for them, and I did play WarCraft I&II all missions, a smattering of StarCraft, a decent amount of TA and CC. I've also tried RoN and hated it, though I've not tried any of the Age of Whatevers. I can deal with an RTS for maybe 8 hours total (not sequential usually) before I say 'seen it done it' and give up on it. Maybe I'd enjoy MP more, but I really don't have the time or inclination for MP anyway.

As to this warez idiot... I dunno why you people are bothering to reply to his drivel. I'm just waiting for him to get a ban or whatever they do on these Boards. I'll admit I sometime engage in poking the trolls, but this one... doesn't seem worth the effort http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Why such a high price?
 

You will need a stick to poke him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Why such a high price?
 

The price for the game is fine. Most people who got into Dominions became diehard and spent hours playing and studying the game. It's a small developer...I buy many games from them to help out their dedication for spending umpteen hours coding for my pleasure.

I agree with Licker about RTS games also. I've played most of them since Dune2 and other than Kohan and AOE2 Multiplayer, they don't do a lot different and get pretty stale. It seems to be that MP is the only way to go with these games I believe...of course, you get the guys who have the macros and cheats playing and it ruins that aspect also.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

Sorry, AOE2 MP doesn't do much different either, I just have a great time with it.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

I did notice you said most...I just saw an oppurtunity to throw in examples of contradictions to the rule.
Yeah, RTS games aren't for everyone...even the good ones. I do find it funny that TA still has features that games seem to not include...like huge build queues and fire while moving capabilities... It was just ahead of its time. I never got much into AoE 2 myself...I was annoyed that it was so much like AoE and yet everyone seemed to think it was "so much better". But I can see how you can enjoy it...it's probably among the better of them with some different sides and special units.

And I dont post on forums all that much so I had to take advantage of a good stick-poking oppurtunity. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Its even more funny because I think he replied by telling me that 125% of people play with warez http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif If game makers weren't all so charitable I guess we'd have nothing to play then.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

Speaking about this....DOM 2. will have PBEM multiplayer only? I dont like PBEM.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Why such a high price?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You have no points. Wait for the demo, and stop posting sh*t.

[ September 23, 2003, 09:50: Message edited by: Mortifer ]

Re: Why such a high price?
 

It's not 8/10, but yes pirating is rampant. However it has NOTHING to do with game price. It has more to do whether people think it's okay to steal other people's property. Plain and simple.

I do agree copy protection is worthless, that's why we don't waste any money on it.

However let this be a warning, encouraging others to do something illegal on these Boards is not permitted. If you post about pirating Dominions again (And I am talking to Reaper) I will ban you and report you to the authorities (we have your IP and we have done this before).

Feel free to discuss the game, but don't advise people on how good it is to steal from developers. Or maybe you would like it if I ripped whatever comapny it is you work for off.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

I agree with Richard, stop posting about warez here, we all know that it is a huge problem!
Btw Richard reporting someone to the authorities wont help. He was talking about warez, that isnt illegal, its just annoying. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: Why such a high price?
 

Actually that's not necessarily true.

And if nothing else, after being warned, it's considered abuse to continue posting against a Boards policies. I can report him to his ISP for abuse.

I don't want to do that, but I won't tolerate the discussion of illegal activities on our Boards.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

about protection scheme, the best one I have found so far was the one implemented in Galactic Civilization. To retrieve each patch, you have to send Online your game key, which is unique. Even after retrieving a patch, there is embedded in them Banned keys (a growing list it seems, I suppose they ban a key if there is a mass download of patches with the same key).

Sure you can play a cracked galciv in 1.0 (I suppose, I own the game and can prove it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ), but aside that you need a legit key to get the numerous improvements.

Thats one of the benefit of distributing games Online. Perhaps Shrapnel should establish a secure download connection for patches, with the request of having a legit key when you want to grab a patch. Personaly, thats would not bother me much, and whats more I think that the idea of all these pirates being fooled would give me much joy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 23, 2003, 17:46: Message edited by: Pocus ]

Re: Why such a high price?
 

Actually they don't need ot go that far. When you issue a patch it almost always breaks whatever crack someone has used. So the approach makes sense, but I doubt you neeed to spend all of that money to setup a special setup like that.

But in the end I think we pick up more audience by folks who can use our games on their laptops easily then we loose due to pirating.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

This is off-topic again, but I finally realized what it is that I found AoW lacking...combinations of abilities and spells. I never saw much use for clever combos that made use of otherwise not great abilities...what i mean by this is:
In dominions, flagellants are decent cheap blessable attackers but are HORRIBLY exposed to missle fire.
Also the dom 2 blessing with air that protects against missile weapons is probably pretty decent on its own too.
However, when the two abilites are combined you have more effectiveness than just the sum of the two seperately.
I just didn't see many oppurtunities for that sort of thing in AoW and I am a great fan of that sort of thing, where you can take two potentially weak units/spells and get a great clever combo from them that is useful. I think this sort of thing is what part of what makes every unit in dominions useful where I found relatively few AoW units to be worth using.
Not to say that AoW is a bad game...I just like effectivly combining things...wolven winter (cold +3 modifier on target province) for another example is useless on its own almost but with the right situations can be wonderful

Re: Why such a high price?
 

yes true, any exe will be cracked in a matter of days.
to be precise, Galciv run without cd on a pc, so there is no hassle here. The filter comes when you want to download a patch.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: Why such a high price?
 

Arioch : Indeed. I had identified why I found AoW a bit too dull. Because there is not much combos, compared to MoM or Doms. Thats were these games shines.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

Talking/encouraging piracy in a dev/publisher forum, now that's a spit in the face. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

About aow,
There is an excellent mod to AOW-II. Adding many units/spells/abilities and putting some sense into the protection scheme.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

i played AOW SM to the end of the campaign. I appreciated the extended scripting work they put in the campaign. But it was often rince and repeat. Most of the time you would use a good chunk of your mana to cast enchanted weapons on your best units for example.

And talking about play balance, they should perhaps take some courses. special city improvement for Orcs : drain life. Cool, now the most dreaded Orcs Warlords drain life. Special improvement for Elves : hide town. Cool, with the AI playing without fog of war (ie cheating), I really appreciate the **fine** (ahem) game equilibrium.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

I was quite disappointed by AOW-SM.
Of the three added races only one has good units/abilities and feels unique(nomads).
The shadow demons are beefed up undead.
The syrons are sadly a ragtag of half thought units.

I once suggested in their Boards to add a doppelganger unit that can shape shift to slain enemy. I was very happy to get a changeling unit.
Alas, it's completely useless. It can only shape-shift to a slain enemy killed in melee.
so if it killed an archer it's stuck there. The AI will use it horribly, changing to low level units. I wish they would have given more thought to creating unique units.

Re: Why such a high price?
 

I don't think €45 is a high price to pay for Dom II.

As for AoW, my thoughts: the original AoW was and still is one kick-*** TBS game. I played that a whole lot, and still love it. It was especially good on some of the excellent maps like Jason Hickman's Reign of Terror (Middle Earth), or Dix's Hunters of Blood I and II, and many others, and especially when you played with leaders off. Playing without leaders eliminated head-hunting strategies and the AI actually started getting aggressive and became a challenge. It was good, and some of those maps really had an epic feel to them.

AoW2 has no possibility of playing with leaders off and is nothing but headhunting (or otherwise just map-crawling) with repeating the same tactics ad nauseam. I didn't like it very much after playing about halfway through, and I'm not sure I'll buy Shadow Magic at all. Quite a few of the original AoW crowd have dropped out of sight for some reason or another, and many have shared my views completely or partially.

DomI on the other hand just rocks, and so will DomII. Can't wait...

Edi

Re: Why such a high price?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Indeed. Doms 2. will be a very unique TBS game. It's worth of 45 bucks.

[ October 02, 2003, 13:11: Message edited by: Zerger ]

Re: Why such a high price?
 

It's gardening vrs comercial farming in my opinion. I will drive further and pay more at a farmer's market for a fruit grown with care by an orchardist or small farmer.

I have no objection paying Shrapnel a good price, knowing that a higher percentage is going to the devlopers. I would rather pay Shrapnel $39 then pay a Huge retail-focused publisher $29.

The fruit you get from a gardener (small farmer) is just better.

[ October 02, 2003, 14:31: Message edited by: Yojinbo ]

Re: Why such a high price?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Would you care to enlighten the DomI newbie about how can you target your units in a manner that you are sure that your flagellants will be the ones getting the missile protection, and not your heavy cavalry? My mages always tend to cast spells on the targets I don't want them to, and this lack of control can be a bit frustrating (not to mention friendly magic fire incidents). I would enjoy the game much more if I wouldn't spend half of the time yelling "NO, NO, don't target them, target the other guy".... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Why such a high price?
 

There's no way to directly control magic targeting, but (from what I've been told and have read about Dom I) the AI does seem much smarter about where to put the protection spells in Dom II as well as which ones to use.

No AI is perfect, but I've noticed it takes into account both vulnerability and value (i.e. those vulnerable but sacred flagellants would get a higher priority for missile protection than vulnerable but cheap militia).

I'm not sure about this, but it does seem that mages and priests also slightly favor troops in squads under their direct control. That Last might just be a misleading fluke, however.

[ October 03, 2003, 03:21: Message edited by: Psitticine ]

Re: Why such a high price?
 

to have the Ai target a given individual or group of units, your only trick is to check the range of the spell, and place the mage & troops so that only they are in range.

for example :

body etheral, range 1. Put the mage adjacent to three behemots on hold an attack. Script BE 3 times. You will get the 3 beasts etheralized before they move.

Another example, weapon oh sharpness on a group of knight : I think the spell has 10 or 15 range. Place the mage and the knights in a corner, and he will have to targets them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Why such a high price?
 

Thanks for the hints on targeting.
If I understand correctly, one square is a space that can fit a unit with a size of 6 (or 3 units with a size of 2, etc.), right? Is there any way to turn on the grid to get a better idea about ranges, etc.? I'm guessing that when you right-click on a unit, and several of them show up and you can cycle through them within the unit details screen, all those units are on the same square, but it's hard to find out longer ranges.

Btw, the size also matters for trampling and missile hit chance. Is there anyhting else for which the size would be important? And what about that colour-coding of the highlighted units? Red is the amount of damage, green is poison, blue is magically protected, or something like that?

[ October 04, 2003, 17:03: Message edited by: HJ ]

Re: Why such a high price?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">you are quite right on your assertions.
Its a bit hard to compute squares distances, but with some practice you will identify the tiles of the terrain (well it will all go away with doms II, ouch!).

When you right click on a unit, you have the others units available in the squares too.

I dont think that missile hit chance is affected by size. Trampling damage is based on size (8+2*size, armor piercing, attack rating of 10 IIRC).

aside that, size is used in supply usage mostly. A spell at least wont works if the creature is too big. I dont see any other thing, but I must be forgetting many things... only one of the Oracle of Illwinter could give you a complete answer.

The colors indicates what problems has your units, and is the average of RGB values. For example very fatigued and slightly wounded will give you a pinky blue.