Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

Upload time: The no of minutes before the game will start automaticaly.

Specifiyng an upload time also prohobits clients from stating the game manully...

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

I created a Sundering game, where I'm in as Abysia. I'm not really looking for a serious game, but if one or two additional persons want to join for a few turns...

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

A new update is avaible:

1. You can now specify hosting times.
2. Games can now be started without VP.

Note that multiple hosting times does not work. This appears to be a shortcoming in the Dominion executable... but it is possible to select multiple hosting times on the webpage. All but the latest seems to be ignored.

PhilD : I've joined. Start whenever you think you have enough.

Anybody else: I have set up a game, real game, for real play. It will start in 24 hours, with at least one turn a day. There's 5 victory points + 1 pr. capital. I've joined as Man.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

I've joined both games and suggested others do the same over in the DominionsX forum.

Thanks for providing this service, EMH.

[ February 19, 2004, 00:15: Message edited by: Reverend Zombie ]

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

Reverend Zombie: You're welcome http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I hope to get some play out of this, and besides, I've long missed and excuse to learn CGI and mysql.

Todays update: It is now possible to add a comment to the game. Also, the game status has been changed to show what nations have joined in place of the VP fields.

Added backend support for restart.

Soon todo: Some primitive chat facility, a "game details" page, maybe with a kill and restart facility.

Far todo: Make adding AI work if possible. Work at styling the page. Make multiple host times work if possible. Publish the code under GPL.

Any other ideas? I can't implement any statistics unless someone come up with an idea for extracting this data from the game somehow, so the VP idea is not possible (sorry Peter).

I've been thinking about sending out a mail when a new turn is generated. Possibly, I could send out a Jabber (IM) or maybe an IRC message as well. Would that be helpful, or just annoying?

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

I thought I had joined the Sundering game as Ermor, but it will not accept my password. Any thoughts?

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">When I launched the game (I'm Abysia), Ermor (I believe) was reported as connected, which surprised me. Now it's reported as having played the turn.

Is there something to prevent a client from "stealing" a nation from another?

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

Re stealing: I would have thought that the passwords for gods were the way to prevent this. However, if it doesn't work...

I havn't tried, though. I could enable some logging and kill the IP of any perpetrators, but really wish to have the server open & free for all.

Do try to experiment... you guys knows as much as I do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'm looking forward to making my moves... I know I probably suck in this game, but as long as I'm having fun being beaten up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Oh, and please avoid <,> in the comment field. Forgot about those. Will change it when I come home, doing tr/<>/()/g;

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

It seems like I will have a lot of spare time on my hands this weekend and since this sounds very interesting I will surely take a look http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Expect me as R'lyeh cause I am fairly clueless about the other races http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

BTW, I might have missed it in this thread, but want map is used here ? Or is it possible to make a choice ?

CharonJr

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

Re: passwords and stealing

I don't think the password prevents access until the game has started. During the nation-selection phase, it seems anyone can go in and "overwrite" another players selection of nation with their own pretender?

I am in the Urgaia game as Arco, would appreciate if no one "steals" that! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

On another note, the Urgaia game seems perpetually stuck at around 83000 seconds for the countdown--when is it really going to start?

[ February 20, 2004, 11:06: Message edited by: Reverend Zombie ]

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">AFAIK, there is no way to "protect" a nation until the game is started. It would be a nice added feature if "open" network games are to become more standard.

One solution, I believe, would be to have the game start offline, as a PBEM game, then go TCP/IP. Not counting the upload question, do the command line switch allow this?

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

The HD ran full today. I did manage to save the quickSundering game, though, so I suppose all's well that ends well.

As you can probably see on the webpage, the participants/waiting for aren't exactly working yet. I will address this another day -- I need to take a day off from this, to regain my energy.

And yes, the WarsOfGaia demostrates (another) error in the game server: uploadtime doesn't work. It does count down, but not as fast as it should. My current theory is that it only counts down when somebody is actually Online.

Too bad about being able to steal each other gods. I would call that a bug in the game. Short of supporting PBM, I do not see what I can do about this.

I'll try to find a place to report bugs to Illwinter.And maybe I'll look into converting the server to PBM --- the TCP/IP server has a lot more bugs than I counted on http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Or maybe I'm just tired.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">At the least, it's a strange feature that there is no control of who can start the game or connect or whatever... I suppose the design was initially done with LAN games in mind.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">support@illwinter.com is at least OK to report bugs to.

As for the TCP/IP vs PBEM: I really like the TCP/IP option, but it might be much simpler to have a simple upload/download of turn files, with the hosting called when all turn files are in. Also, much lighter on the resources: you wouldn't have to keep a server running for each game. But the advantage of the Dom server is that it takes care of the password thing - only, it doesn't care until the game is actually started.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

The server is up again. I had forgotten had a query logger running. As I'm using mysql extensively, this log mananged to hog 75% of my HD on the server.

It should be fixed now. I've already restart quickSundering. Wars of Gaia seem against all probability to have survived a full HD, and restarting the mysql database server. Sometimes, Perl is quite cool. Also I'm impressed with the Gentoo folks: A full root partition is usually bad news for any Linux. It didn't even complain (much).

As for a PBM versus TCP/IP, here is my take on it:

Advantages of TCP/IP:
-----------------------------
We've tried to do this. It sort of work.
It's convenient
Fast games are easy/possible.
Doesn't require a mailbox.

Advantages of PBM
------------------------------
Uses few system resources
Easy to work around bugs
Easy to backup/make stable
Easier to make up for Dominion shortcomings.
Doesn't require a fixed IP address.

But that's just my take on it. If dominions had no bugs, I'd say convenience overrule everything else. Now I don't know.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

Forgot to say: I just happened upon the reason for the bug with "Waiting for" (I was assuming that all games were shortened to three chars). It's fixed, so now you can just surf to my servers main page to see if it's your time to move.

The Participants seems quite broken though. It may just be because QuickSundering has been started before I implemented this.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

Well, upload time is completely shot. At random intervals, the counter will start all over. I just watched it happen in the WarsOfGaia game.I think I will just kill that game sometime next week, and remove the upload time field from the webpage sometime.

An interesting observation is that the CPU requirement a game is actually quite low; except for the startup phase. So I think my little server could actually host quite a number of games, provided that only a few are in the upstart mode.

Anyway: interest in the server continues to be low. Anybody know why? Is such a server just not in demand; is it too buggy, does it miss a key feature...? At the current usage level, I cannot bring myself to use much time on it. I will let it run for a least a month, though, and see what happens. I will also watch this thread.

It was a fun little project in any case http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

Personally I think this auto server is a great idea, but I might be biassed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif How much timer do you use when it counts in a strange way?

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Probably the main reason is that it's missing the "get together" part of starting a game. I suspect that most of the time, when people are looking to start a MP game, they find that one of them can reasonably easily host, so that isn't really a limiting factor.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hadn't realised it existed as I don't browse these forums all that often. I've not actually played Online yet, but something like this would greatly increase the chances of me doing so (and frequency in which I did).

Is that warsofgaia game waiting to start, or is it just between turns?

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

The WarsOfGaia is suffering from a bug in the game: Uplaodtime doesn't work; it will restart counting down at random intervals, thus never starting. I could of course kill the game, and then restart it without upload time. Say the word and I'll try http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I think PhilD is onto to something with the gettogether part. What do you think would work? A reference to an IRC channel? A built-in chat? A forum? I could manage those three rather easily, I think http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Johan K: I had some difficulty trying to understand what you wrote. Did you ask how much I had originally set the uploadtime to? Then it was 25 hours, or 1500 minutes. That is around 90000 seconds. And thanks about thinking it's a great idea.

As for visibility, I don't think I can do much more than posting in these forums http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You are all welcome to spread the word, the server can surely handle it. Well, maybe not if you announce it on slashdot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

Well, fwiw I started the NewbieTest game that's on there now. Mostly default settings.. if I understand it right it's set to host every day at midnight and to quickhost (that means it'll auto host if all turns are in before the set time, yes?). And no upload time - gotta start it manually?

As the comment says, I have no idea what I'm doing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok, the following is not based on Dominions 2 as such, but on MP in general. I am pretty sure it is relevant for Dominions 2, though.

A key part of multiplayer games that you KNOW will run over weeks, or even months, of real time is that of having a coherent player group. It is not about random matchup with people who happen to want to join a game. The latter road will often leave you half-way through a game with people who just fail to show up because they are losing, have lost interest &etc. The player group is all about having people you can chat diplomacy with in-between sessions, that you get to know better, and that, because of the closer communication, can usually be relied on to stay dedicated. You take time to plan a game, you decide who plays which nation/faction, agree on winning conditions, optional rules (if any), and general hosting times.

Your site is IDEAL for small and quick MP games with a small number of participants, and such can be played in Dominions 2, but it is lacking in functionality that would facilitate larger games. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Coordination of the schedules and backstabbing of the players involved is probably one of the most important aspects of long-term MP in general, and that often requires a dedicated discussion thread, sub-forum, or ICQ/IRC group set up. The ability to send an ingame-message that will be read next turn is just not sufficient compared to the level of diplomacy needed when eight or ten parties are each trying to arrange a triple-cross for next session. (This happens more often than one should think - probably also in Dominions 2)

Now, it CAN be used if such a group has already formed, and have opened communication lines, in which case your server provides a clear convenience for everybody involved; They can log on at nearly the same time and start a game without risking somebody random joining and spoiling the game setup - so long as the participants can be fairly sure that nobody else by mistake takes their turn.

As such, I would expect interest in small games with casual players to increase as the server stability increases and knowledge of your server spreads, but I would not expect it to get a massive inroad of traffic with regards to larger games unless the player-player issues are addressed.

I could see a situation where a game was arranged e.g. in this forum with its dedicated discussion thread here, with the stipulation that it was played on your server. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">One of the difficulties with the server is that someone has to start the game, and anybody can do it. There could be a consensus that the one who created the game gets to start it...

I joined as Abysia, BTW.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, wasn't sure exactly how the whole game starting thing worked for mp. I'm not fussy who starts it or when, as I'm not sure how many players is good (or how long it'd take to "fill" the game).

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

The IP server is a good thing, but I don't think there'd ever be many IP games going : the game is really best played in PBEM... And the players are more pbem types too ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

What we still need is a PBEM server, kind'a PBW (the one for SE4). I'm pretty sure this will have more immediate success - this system has NO drawback on manual "hosting" , so every pbem game can migrate to it very soon ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not sure I agree with this... even for a "slow" game (PBEM speed), the TCP/IP play is simpler. And if you want a "quick" game (or even a 2-player game: not much diplomacy in there), there are no good reasons to play PBEM.

In fact, a 24/7 server like this one could be optimal, if the dom2 program itself were really made for it.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't know how PBW or SE4 work, so I cannot comment on this.

Still, this server has a huge advantage, IMHO: it hosts on Linux, so I get fewer buggy battle replays than when Pocus does the hosting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

I've started WarsOfGaia. I didn't realize so many had joined on that little map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif This should be interesting...

I have read, and not forgotten, your comments regarding the pros and cons of the server. I still see no obvious advantage of a PBM hosting service against a TCP/IP-server, except as I've listed above (or rather below in this backwards forum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif ) I will mull this over, and maybe do something about the things I can.

Now there's 3 more or less real games on the server. That's fine by me, and justification enough for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It's not as though it is under any heavy load.

And yes, I think a gentleman agreement that the creator starts the game would be good, until such time that illwinter fixes the --uploadtime parameter. I will write this on the webpage at the next update.

Have fun!

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

Do the others that've joined the NewbieTest game want to start with what we have (5 people)? Or wait for more? All my games have been offline so far, so I'm not sure what a good number of players is for mp on aran.
edit: i guess someone started it already

[ February 22, 2004, 19:27: Message edited by: Breschau ]

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

the main advantage I see about PBEM is that a PBEM machine can start a game every day. For games that can run for months, a web server supporting tcpip games will probably be referred to as "a web server for Dominions2 but its full most of the time". Maybe the best method would be to offer both. Start the tcpip games as quickie games, and start the PBEM games as 1-a-day turns.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I just fixed that, so now the cpu usage for a text server should not exceed 0% except during turn generation. The high cpu usage was caused by too much text output.

Now I'll just have to take a look at the strange countdown too and see if I can reproduce it.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

Wow thanks. Did we get the "Start game and Quit" to work in Linux? I can get it to work in Windows.

Also did --preexec make it in? The only docs I have are the linux ones and I dont see it.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

The --preexec made it into 2.08 but a create game and quit did not.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not sure I agree with this... even for a "slow" game (PBEM speed), the TCP/IP play is simpler. And if you want a "quick" game (or even a 2-player game: not much diplomacy in there), there are no good reasons to play PBEM.

In fact, a 24/7 server like this one could be optimal, if the dom2 program itself were really made for it.

Quote:

What we still need is a PBEM server, kind'a PBW (the one for SE4). I'm pretty sure this will have more immediate success - this system has NO drawback on manual "hosting" , so every pbem game can migrate to it very soon ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't know how PBW or SE4 work, so I cannot comment on this.

Still, this server has a huge advantage, IMHO: it hosts on Linux, so I get fewer buggy battle replays than when Pocus does the hosting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">PhilD,

Technically ÏP surely is the way to go, but from a practical standpoint I prefer to play by email without having to connect to a server, and with predefined hosting sessions.
PBW does just that : you can define your SE4 games, dload/upload files, etc.. everything's very neat and well done.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

Johan: Great you're looking into the uploadtime thing. That bug is very annoying http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif And really, really cool to avoid CPU load when idling. This means that the server can handle nearly the same load as a PBEM could. (Only nearly, because there's still the memory). Have you ever managed to create a game with AI/closed nations from the command line? Can you post a working one here? That would be REALLY helpful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

PDF: Just for the record: There's no reason to be Online with the server when taking your turn. Just connect, then disconnect and take your turn, then connect and upload (a message will tell you in some technoslang that this has happened.) Works great!

I have now listened and considered what you all wrote. So here's a rough idea how a matchup phase could be implemented.

1. Everyone wanting to join a multiplayer game registers with an email or similar + a login. When creating his account, the new player tells how many games he has played, and where he is on a scale of 1) often quit when losing to 4) always fight to the bitter end. Also, the profile would contain how many (more) MP games this player is looking for.

2. When creating a game, this can be done in matchup mode. That is, you state how many players, what experience level(s) (0-10, 10-100, 100+ games played) and "quit-likely" the gamers may be. Then the server sits around and await enough eligible players. When enough have gathered, a MP game is starting by sending out a master password to all players. The game is started automatically, and the title is sent along with the password. This should insure againt "people accidently dropping in".

3. After the game, statitics are gathered (who quit before the end etc.) and the profiles updated. That way, the profiles become more realistic. Profiles of a certain age çould also be marked (to avoid constant reregistering to escape a bad reputation)

What do you think? It's rough yet, but could it work? Would anyone register? I can certainly implement most of the above with little trouble http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

This would of course supplement the current very free form.

P.S: Would Cae be so kind as to make his moves in the games? I suppose I really should have made a fixed "host every 24 hours" rule to supplement the quickhost in the WarsOfGaia http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

./dom2 --closed 5 --easyai 7 --tcpserver --port 6666 myheavenlytestgame

That should setup a dominions server with one computer player (caelum) and one closed nation (ulm). This better be REALLY helpful now!

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

Another server breakdown. It appears that while restoring my server Last time I managed to reenable the very logging feature that caused it to crash in the first place.

All games should be restarted now; if I have missed your, drop me a mail!

Oh, and for some reasons the "participants" and "wait_for_turn" features broke. I have disabled them for now.

And Johan: Especially closing some nations would be REALLY useful ;-) In 14 days I have some holidays coming up, where I hope to get back to some of my planned features.

Meanwhile, the server seems to have gained some popularity :-D That's great!

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

I have added a link to your server page on my site's links page. I hope this will attract some more attention for you.

Keep up the great work!

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

To let you know, the NewbieTest game (port 2303) isn't hosting at the correct times anymore (was at 24h) and one of the players isn't playing anymore. So it's been at turn 3 for a few weeks now. Might want to just scrap it to free up space, I dunno.

Also the ones that're on 2305 and 2306 are listed as in progress, but if you connect it shows a small selection of nations and they're all listed Open. I selected vanheim for the 2306 game but it's not one of the nations that's listed (I'm quite sure there were about double the number of nations selected Last time I connected to it).

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

You might want to restart the host with a "process at midnight"

a kludgy work-around for missing players (if you didnt put in a master password) is to copy a turned-in file to the players name. It wont work for just any old file. If Man seems to be missing and Ctis has done their turn then copy Ctis.2h to Man.2h in the same directory.

This is good for when the player has actually been beaten but hasnt returned that Last file to the host to let the host know that they got that "you've been beaten" message. Im thinking that the host should maybe be rewritten to skip that.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

The Urgaia game on 2301 has been static for about a week and could probably be killed, too.

The port 2305 game is running just fine, though. Breschau stated that "Also the ones that're on 2305 and 2306 are listed as in progress, but if you connect it shows a small selection of nations and they're all listed Open." but I think that might be because he did not load a Pretender for the 2305 game.

As Marignon, it takes me directly to the passoword screen.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

I don't think I loaded a pretender for both of those, but I definitely loaded one for one of them. I just don't recall which one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

The Apocalypse game is pretty full and has been listed as open for a while.

If the person who set it up reads this, could you post when you expect to start it?

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm curious about that myself, as uploaded a pretender for it... and am anxious to try out this whole MP thing.

Is there a thread somewhere dedicated to this game for the players to comment on?

I think the webserver is great. Though it would be really sweet if there was some way to make comments or something that are linked to the games... kind of integrate the ease of starting an MP game and finding new players with a bit of communication. I don't really know if that is feasible though.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm wondering if they expected it to start when the timer ran out, not realising that that doesn't work just now.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

I'm just looking fo someone to play a game (MP better but is ok also PBEM) with just 1 turn every 24 hour, not during the week end.

Possibly on a not too much big map with something like 10 nations

interested please write me at liga(AT)treemme.org

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

Do you also host on teh week ends ? is 2.06 or 2.08 Version ?

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

I got tired of waiting to see what happens... so I started a new game. Anyone is welcome to join...

It's called "aran6to10plyrs"... none of my comments made it through (probably because I tried to put in a website link?)...

So the settings are:

Indy Strength: 6
Magic Sites: 50
Host Time: 24 hours

The rest of the setting are the defaults.

I also started a thread on the Gone Gold multiplayer forums, since there are a lot of people who dig the game there. Game comments should be directed to the following link, so as not to clutter up this thread.

GG Game Thread

Hopefully people will join, so I don't feel like an idiot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ March 11, 2004, 12:58: Message edited by: AhhhFresh ]

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

liga: The server runs 2.08. It's hosting all night, all day, all weekend, easter and so forth. It's never off, except when external causes causes it to be. (Last time was my cat).

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

psssst.. delete the NewbieTest game on 2303.. it's been on turn 4 for several weeks now.

Re: New & raw web based Dominion II game server
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Plus 3 days to protest, and none have done so. It is now officially dead,

Tell me if I need to "raise the dead". That goes for any game, BTW.