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Ah, so now my composite bowmen will be able to set their foes alight. *fwoosh* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Lovely. TC S&A was missing this before.
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Kris & Johan,
Can we get some sort of clue as to what you mean by "improved spell AI"? What sort of behavior(s) it no longer does, or things it will now do that it didn't used to? I am also curious as to what the significance is of now having GoH affect PD? (It seemed that before, once a battle was over, all the PD would miraculously heal all hits/wounds anyway.) Obviously I'm missing something here. TIA. |
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Where can I DL the patch?
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[Edit]By my tests, this still happens in 2.08 </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've never seen any game until this one where paralyze is suppose to Last the entire battle (30 thru 40 turns). I've played all kinds of games from ranging from RTS, RPG and TBS... most have been TBS. Why have the description read Paralyze(2) when it's going to Last 25 turns ??? ---shouldn't it be changed to Paralyze(25) so at least we'll have a clue of when the unit will wake up ?? |
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Arryn --
GoH not only heals afflictions, but also increases hit points within dominion -- up to doubling the original max hp. |
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NT Jedi,
Did you ever play AD&D? Paralyzation effects effectively Lasted the entire battle in that game and, if memory serves, often had to be countered by a remove paralysis spell or some such. I don't view paralyze's Lasting the entire battle as objectionable and in fact like this as a counter to supercombatants. Everything ought to have a counter. |
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I'm with PhilD.. the link to the Linux patch is dead! Whats up with this? Anyone know an alternative download link? Illwinter?
Damnit, I wish companies would host their own damn patches.... ;( --SD |
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My only question right now is: Is there going to be a quickfix for Utgard? (who enjoy their new Abysian Units). (Within the week or so, not today)
If not. Can you mod specific themes as of right now or is it still limited to only the base theme. [ February 16, 2004, 18:53: Message edited by: Zen ] |
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We might have jumped in too quick. I havent seen any official post saying that the patch was out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif
[ February 16, 2004, 18:53: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ] |
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Only, it isn't out for everybody http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif |
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This patch seems to be off to a rather rocky start. So far, I've had run into the following:
1. Game vomits up an "SDL Parachute Deployed" error in stderr.txt when I try to play a turn: It occurs most frequently after I have hit Host to go to the next turn: Restarting the game entirely often clears the problem and allows me to play, even though I have changed nothing else. The bug manifests often, but with no guaranteed consistency: Sometimes it will occur even after a game restart, sometimes not. 2. Games with more than one nation designated as human controlled sometimes hang on turn generation: Once again, no consistency: Sometimes it hangs, sometimes it proceeds. Has anyone else observed this behavior? For a patch, this seems to have broken more than it's fixed.... |
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Anybody played around with the new theme yet?
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Here's a temporary link for the linux and os x patches. I don't know why the Shrapnel one didn't work.
* Edit: It's working again. No more temporary links. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/d2/6.htm [ February 16, 2004, 19:17: Message edited by: Johan K ] |
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The patches from our site should work now.
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Woah, that was quick. I -just- posted that little complaint ;P Yup, and sure enough its a good link now.
Thanks for being on the case so fast! --SD |
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There is a serious problem with paralyzation Lasting the entire battle. I will describe why: I had one of those supercombatants which was paralyzed during battle and surrounded. Well the units which surrounded him were doing hardly any damage and my supercombatant was regenerating what little scratches were being done. Then the battle was Lasting so long... my remaining units fled... except for the supercombatant who was paralzyed. Eventually most the defenders that surrounded my supercombatant fled too because the game has units retreat after a certain period of time. THE PROBLEM: A few of the defenders could not flee because my paralyzed supercombatant was standing in their way. Only a few spirits and a longdead which continued to add paralyzation. Once in a blue moon they could scratch him but he would easily regenerate. Another 20 turns went by... then the game just killed him. THUS he died because every battle has a certain amount of time until all remaining attackers are just killed. what killed him: He died because the battle exceeded the maximum time limit. That's just wrong. Either he should have been set free from paralyzation so he could flee off the battlefield OR he should have been automatically kicked into one of my friendly provinces. |
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It felt thematic. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Somebody living in those huts forges platemail hauberks, though... Hmmm... must be using those books in the forge. "Makuto mighty Fire mage! Magic book... Fire!" (chucks it in the forge, and smiles proudly) The Black Sorceror (played by John Cleese) leans in to speak to his God discretely, "This latest generation of Witch Doctors _are_ a bit dim, My Lord. But we are paying them less. We save enough on their recruitment to buy an entire unit of archers!" "And how many in a unit?" "Ah... _one_, Sir." "Hrmm", growled the Lord of the Desert Sun pensively... "One, two, three, four, five becomes 1,3,6,10,15. Or what was once 75 has become 45... And five archers." "I do not understand, Lord. These numbers, are they... a prophesy?" "Yes. Of doom." (OK, so I'm whining. But it's a _Classy_ whine.) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
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NT Jedi,
In the AD&D system, if the only enemy left on the battlefield were paralyzed, that enemy could simply be slain in the following combat round at the discretion of the victorious party. So I don't really see anything wrong with the fact that your pretender dies. (For those of you who are wondering why the AD&D combat system is relevant to this discussion, please see NT Jedi's prior post.) I think it would be much cleaner to just autokill all paralyzed enemies when they don't have non-paralyzed defenders. That way folks wouldn't become unhappy about how their pretender died due to the "time out" feature. I'm not a fan of the time out feature myself and agree that nonparalyzed attackers who are berserk or otherwise unable to retreat who survive 50 rounds ought to wind up in an adjacent friendly province if such exists. |
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Oh, paralyzation gets more interesting than that.
Suppose an SC goes into battle with a raised Astral + Fire shield, Personal Luck, Ethereal, Mirror Image, Mistform, Invulnerability. He becomes paralyzed and cannot move. Opponents continue to strike him: Some of THEM are paralyzed. Due to his awesome armor rating, and many protective spells, the opponent is unable to hurt him, but many enemies set themselves on fire and die trying to kill this paralyzed, immobile target. Eventually, the others decide they've had enough, break, and flee. Now the battlefield consists entirely of two paralyzed sides that stare at each other, both unable to move: The routing Messages flash for both sides, yet neither can clear the field because all are immobilized. Eventually, your SC is auto-killed because the battle drags on indefinitely....and paralyze appears to NEVER WEAR OFF. Ever! If it did, the paralyzed sides would eventually unparalyze and clear the field.....but they never do! In this particular case, an SC that uses Astral Shield in the presence of paralyzers may as well be signing his own death warrant, because while paralyzation is deadly, it's not an instant game over....unless you manage to paralyze somebody while paralyzed! [ February 16, 2004, 20:52: Message edited by: Norfleet ] |
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about Arco golden age:
Very amusing theme, with a lot of inspiration too. I like the Icarus warrior susceptibility to fire for example. Congratulations! The graphics are cool too. A bad point is that I spotted at once several typos (though I'm a foreigner who speak badly english). I would have though that the Shrapnel component of the team would make a double check? Not a big deal anyway. Thank again Illwinter for this patch, and all the efforts you are putting into this game. [ February 16, 2004, 20:56: Message edited by: Pocus ] |
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Being killed by the game because time exceeded the limit is wrong. Either they need to fix paralyzation so it doesn't Last the entire battle or they need to fix the auto-kill all attackers after X amount of turns has passed. =============== I agree with Norfleet and his example... paralyzation is definitely a problem. At the very least this auto-kill after X turns should be changed to auto-flee instead. [ February 16, 2004, 21:01: Message edited by: NTJedi ] |
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It's pretty easy to tell when a unit, especially an HoF unit, has been timekilled, too: A dead unit in the Hall of Fame has negative hitpoints denoting how heavily he was killed.
A timekilled unit, and maybe anything slain by an instant death spell, has some -9000 hitpoints....and there is nothing in the game which does that kind of damage normally. |
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One (relatively) small thing IŽd really like to see in the next patch: [*]Dominion Overview Page. Shows all your choices made in the Create a God menu on one single page. |
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NT Jedi,
Just so that we understand what we're discussing... In the AD&D combat system, your statement would be correct if the Red Dragon was somewhere that you could not reach him at all. For instance...he's across a river and you paralyzed him with paralyzation poison. You can't damage him because you can't reach him. Therefore, he's going to live. In the AD&D system, you can automatically hit a paralyzed target, regardless of that target's AC. I realize that Dom 2 doesn't use that system and still makes you roll and get through protection. My hunch is that this is present due to the immobile pretenders who in effect start out unable to move yet magically active and must still be slain. In the AD&D system, you also automatically damage the paralyzed target. It's either triple damage or in some places (some Versions of the game) you can just automatically slit the "helpless" target's throat...if it has a throat. Now...you have to be using a weapon that can affect the creature...and some creatures require magical weapons to hit them. If you don't have a magical weapon, you're not going to autokill a paralyzed creature that requires a magical weapon to hit. Still, accounting for these intricacies, I think it would be imminently fair to allow the winning side to "autokill" helpless paralyzed targets on the Dominions battlefield. There is never that issue of whether you can physically reach the target. You always can. And no creature in Dom 2 is immune to normal weapons. My proposed change is this: If you are helpless and don't have any defenders who aren't likewise helpless, you will be automatically killed if any opponent can reach you before the effect wears off. (This way if you're at the back of the battlefield and you're out 2 rounds you might be safe.) As a consequence of this proposed change, the "time out" factor wouldn't matter. Because your opponents wouldn't have to roll to hit you and sometimes miss. They would just automatically kill your SC due to his or her helpless condition. |
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This would make the durability of an immobile pretender chassis completely irrelevant:
Since an immobile creature is ALWAYS "helpless", as it cannot move, dodge attacks, or strike enemies, wouldn't it always be killed instantly? Furthermore, in D&D, AC is an overly abused measure of too many things. In Dominions II, it's much more clearly defined: Defense represents a unit's ability to dodge: When paralyzed, this falls to Zero, and enemies pretty much always hit him. Penetrating his protection rating, on the other hand, is an entirely different matter: A big chunk of rock may very well be nigh indestructible by your puny weapons, no matter how easy it is for you to strike. I believe protection value is penalized if you become paralyzed or surrounded, but sometimes, even that is not enough to allow a weak unit with a poor weapon to damage you. And it still doesn't address the real threat of paralyzation...that of being stuck on a battlefield with similarly paralyzed opponents, unable to move or otherwise end this battle because everyone is stuck and paralyzation Lasts forever! |
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SurvivalistMerc:
Even if those units from dominions or units from AD&D were doing triple damage it doesn't matter because the regenerating portion was so great the damage done is gone at the start of next turn. This is what was happening. MY MAIN POINT: As of right now it's NOT the units killing the supercombatants. The problem is that paralyzed units cannot flee and are then killed by the game. In Dominions_2 units are not making the kill... THE GAME is making the auto-kill. That is wrong. [ February 16, 2004, 21:34: Message edited by: NTJedi ] |
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NT Jedi,
I understand and accept your point. I agree that the time limit system currently in place has a "wrong" feel to it. I would prefer an autokill of paralyzed and other "helpless" creatures who have no defenders and are in reach of any unit. I will point out, however that the AD&D system does not use "protection" to reduce damage of successful hits. And...come to think about it...if someone is paralyzed the attackers probably ought to be able to do better than hack at the armored portions of the target.... My point: I agree with you that the mechanism by which the result is achieved is unsatisfying and that you have a right to be unhappy with the mechanism (time limit) by which the result is achieved. But I like and support the result, though I would achieve it by a different game mechanic. It seems that you have a problem with both the mechanic (time limit) and the result (supercombatant dies). Or am I wrong? |
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Norfleet,
Under my proposed mechanic, merely being immobile would not make one "helpless" if one were a hunk of rock. The hunk of rock would not be considered "helpless" unless it were paralyzed or rendered incapable of casting any spells. I suppose immobile hunks of rock with no magic skills would be considered "helpless" under my system. But I would count the defenders that are part of structures like most fortifications as defenders for purposes of saying that even these helpless units do have active, non-helpless defenders. Does that sense? |
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Of course, I'm not quite sure how you would cut the throat of a rock, or how, exactly, doing that would really harm a golem.... There's just too many different, really weird creatures in Dom2 to simply declare an autokill. People should have to work for the kills. Also, what if the paralyzed unit is protected by spells such that killing him would kill YOU? A fire-shielded and astral-shielded unit with a Phoenix Pyre is no pushover, even if you can simply walk up and stab him in the face....only to have him STUN YOU, BURN YOU, and EXPLODE IN YOUR FACE. And come back. [ February 16, 2004, 21:49: Message edited by: Norfleet ] |
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The problem with the game is that units which cannot flee are auto-killed. This is not a manuever or attack being done by units... the game does an auto-kill. That's wrong.
For my case these were weak units which clearly lacked the weapons and power to permanently wound my regenerating Tartarian Cyclops(size-6). It would be like someone asking you to destroy a 20-foot bronze statue with a fork... and the statue regenerates. Just because a unit is paralyzed doesn't mean the unit should be auto-killed. Sure it can be more vunerable... but I'm quite certain even in AD&D low level characters with ordinary weapons wouldn't be able to kill a paralyzed Ancient Red Dragon. ========= Norfleet and Graeme Dice also have excellent points. [ February 16, 2004, 22:01: Message edited by: NTJedi ] |
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[ February 16, 2004, 22:03: Message edited by: Norfleet ] |
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Send your .trn file and serial key to support@illwinter.com.
Note: If you have a cracked cd key this could cause similar problems. |
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None of the betatesters have had this problem, nor anyone of us.
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I don't know if any one has mentioned this yet, but on the OS X Version of Golden Era Arcos, if you try and look at the the priestess' stats the game quits without an error. Also the icarids (?) are mooses.
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The whole discussion on paralyzation is just.. silly. Your paralyzed unit is only lost if thats you attacking and you dont win. So basicly what happens, is that the province gets together for a big party. Where they either build a fire around you and burn you, or simply chisle away at you untill your a pile of ruble. See, no need to discuss that anymore. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Edit: spelling (yeah its still bad) [ February 17, 2004, 01:18: Message edited by: Pillin ] |
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sprnbr too high for this file N?got gick fel! sprnbr too high for this file Abort trap hope this helps |
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I agree with Pillin. Auto-death of the paralyzed works fine. All of my provincial defenses have been well-trained in the elimination and disposal of battlefield detritus. After all, they have a whole month to do the deed. And the death was caused by an opposing unit after all (not self-paralyzed).
Aikamun [ February 17, 2004, 02:18: Message edited by: Aikamun ] |
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Thats actually a common missconseption. The vikings where mostly peacefull traders, farmers and craftsmen. There where occasional times when they would go "on viking" as they called it, but this was really a minor part of the culture.
This however is reaaaly offtopic so lets not discuss it further http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
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the regenerating powers of the Tartarian Cyclops(size 6) would easily keep him alive from their sticks and stones. Most of the citizens/farmers would also be too afraid to approach him since he also carried 'cause fear +2' . He had items which gave him his regeneration and other enhancements. When the game auto-kills a unit just because X amount of turns passed... that's just wrong. The fix we need is to remove the auto-kill and replace it with auto-flee. OR Change/Adjust Paralyzation OR Change the Last turns of battle so units can wake up and properly flee. |
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