Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Because Aftermath is missing the entire climb ladders/stairs and go inside buildings aspect that made the X-COM battles so interesting. Plus it lacks the economic side of the game. No base construction & layout. It's just research and 2D fighting. What it does, it does better. Problem is that it doesn't do as much as the orginal games did. So it leaves a lot of people unsatisified. You don't get enough of that "being in control" feeling.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Oh, and perhaps I'm just being loony, but you might want to look at _Settlers of Catan_, which has board, 2-player card, and apparently, computer variants. Sometimes it's good to play in person so you can throttle the other fellow when he takes away your Bishop with a Spy, then immediately launches three Arsonists and toasts your expensive buildings.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Settlers of Catan is one of my wife's and my favorite board games. You people have great taste! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Here's one that hasn't been mentioned yet...

Uplink: http://www.introVersion.co.uk/uplink/

This is a nifty game where you are a hacker. Very interestingly done.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

I definitely agree with Kohan beeing a little gem. It is the only real time strategy game that "feels" like a turn by turn game. The "company" system and the clear choices to reward thinking vs. micromanagement and click fests was truely refreshing.

The best civ-like is IMHO SMAC. The game itself was a solid and classical (but well done, the whole social engineering system was nifty) civ-clone, but what I really liked in this game was the "storytelling", immersive elements. With all the voice acting and text blurbs for each technologies and buildings, and the text interludes following up the great game manual, there was a nice atmosphere of discovery, I truely felt I was unlocking the secrets of the planet.

Although the game is very, very basic (though strangely addictive) and has nowhere near the depth of even the AoW or HoMM series, I have a soft spot for the Disciples series. The graphics of disciples 2 are gorgeous, and the "dark fantasy" art is really brillant (though I dislike the main map, way too crowded, however the character portraits and combat models are awesome) : again, a very immersive experience, largely due to the art style this time.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">SMAC was second only to MoM for 4x games to me. For non 4x strategy, I liked Sacrifice a *lot*, though it had more of a chess like quality.

- Kel

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I couldn't agree more. It's fabulous for what it is. I always sort of likened it to a turn-based fighting game more than a strategy game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif And the artwork and models are, bar none, the slickest stuff I've seen in a strategy game to date.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">SMAC was second only to MoM for 4x games to me. For non 4x strategy, I liked Sacrifice a *lot*, though it had more of a chess like quality.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Chess-like? Yes, I suppose...if you like playing chess at Ludicrous Speed (TM). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Sacrifice is a total gem. Fast paced and VERY fun.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Going the fantasy way of suggesting games:

A couple of years ago, I fell in love with the Exile-series from Spiderweb. Great immersive hack&slay-rpgs. Check out Avernum I - III, their spiritual children, but beware: They're huge. My third time playing through Avernum III, which I all but knew by heart then, took about 55 hours playing time approximately, and none of it boring.

King Of Dragonpass is *the* game for all Hero Wars and Glorantha fans, and everyone into interactive stories.

I'd suggest Planescape: Torment as probably the best computer-rpg available, but since everyone knows it (or should, at least...)... unbelievable that a company that proved that it could deliver tons of story, highly interesting characters and finally an interaction system that allows you more than the general "Yes, I would love to lick your boots"-, "Now you die scum!"- and "I'll do it, but pay me first"-answers then turned out some disappointing crap like Neverwinternights...

Those are my independent favourites. I am also an avid Morrowindplayer, but that's beside the point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">From arguably the best line in that movie ...

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I played the Exile games years ago when I had a Mac, but I never tried the Avernum "remakes". Maybe I'll give one of them a shot.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Independent? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Black Isle has always been a wholly owned subsidiary of Interplay, to my knowledge. I loved the story of PS:T, perhaps more than any other RPG around...but I hated the combat and the lack of creation and development options for your main character.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have a special love/hate relationship with Morrowind. Unlike PS:T, you have virtually limitless options at character creation, and that is a Good Thing (TM). I love its sprawling nature, its interesting storyline, and its nOnlinearity. However, melee combat in Morrowind is so bloody awful...and there are so many other little frustrations with that game. So I love it and want to throw my PC through the window, all at the same time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Angband.

The deepest ... timesink... ever constructed, by man or Valar.

http://www.thangorodrim.net/


Rabe the YASD, Emeritus.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I prefer Nethack, and its fabulous variant Slash'EM, but I've spent a good deal of time on several Angband variants as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ToME is just super.

By the way, I just wanted to give a special thanks to those who recommended King of Dragon Pass...what an innovative game that is! I can't wait to get the full Version. Reminds me of how badly I wanted to be able to host Turn 41 in the Dom II demo... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Does anyone else here play Coliseum? I've been having fun with that demo, as well.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

The _Combat Mission_ games from http://www.battlefront.com also come to mind, although they're not necessarily of that wide appeal. Meticulously scanning the 3D terrain and carefully plotting orders for every unit (individual vehicle, squad or half-squad, weapons team, gun, basically) for each minute-long phase can be daunting. But if you're at home in a community full of grogs who'll debate the frequency or utility of a Bren tripod or research TOE/OOB for specific battles or who have tables of actual penetration data of a particular AP round type from a 88mm PaK '43 against so-and-so mm of steel plate and so-and-so angle and distance, well, have at it.

KoDP is fun. Heh -- if you want to REALLY annoy the other clans, try a slavemaster approach. Say your ancestors took the Nalda Bin as thralls, choose a War clan, and in battle keep choosing "take captives" and keeping 'em. It is not good for diplomacy when you have more thralls than your own farmers in your clan, better keep amassing weaponthanes and war blessings...

Nor is it good for your economy when an enemy raid eventually gets lucky, cracks your defenses and frees all the thralls. Oops. Don't say I didn't warn you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OK, I ordered KoDP this morning. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I do have a question, though, for avid fans of the game - is A Sharp developing any "expansions"? Like more story events, etc? Or are there modding tools to add your own? Or is the game pretty much "finished"? Either way, I don't care - 450 random story events will keep me well-entertained, and will probably keep things random enough that it doesn't feel too similar each time you play. But it would be neat if they were actually developing some new stuff for the game...

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Unfortunately, I believe A.Sharp suffered as much from the HeroWars disaster as Greg Stafford himself - several publishers of the books went broke due to deservedly low sales, the books were released due to monetary pressure far too son, and are full of typos, confusion and lack of serious material - at least in the european area.

Any way, make sure to patch immediatley after getting your game. The shipped Version isn't much fun once you realize that there's no way of getting more sheep to upkeep your temples. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif On the other hand, maybe they ship the patched Version by now. I still have a treasured one from my Beta-days. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Oh, and don't even bother to play the "short" Version - it stops just as things are getting interesting.

Any way, I am afraid there won't be a sequel, strangely enough though that KodP received lots of praise from nearly everywhere. If someone proves me wrong, I'd be glad about it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Yes, I saw that there was a patch released Last year. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I'll be sure to grab it.

I was looking at what happens in the "short" Version...and I was thinking the same thing. "Why would I play this when there's a LONG Version?" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

As for A#, it appears that they at least haven't abandoned their website. They Last updated it in February of this year...perhaps I'll write them and see if they have any future plans for KoDP.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Note that a long game could be *extremely* long, depending on your actions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You get a choice of when you want to 'go for the gold' as they say and you can just keep chugging along for as long as you want before you decide to go for it.

Also note that events are done very subtlely and the same 'right path' for one event is often different from game to game and situation to situation...so while there are X number of events that can happen, there are more than X different paths, if that makes any sense.

- Kel

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Note that a long game could be *extremely* long, depending on your actions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You get a choice of when you want to 'go for the gold' as they say and you can just keep chugging along for as long as you want before you decide to go for it.

Also note that events are done very subtlely and the same 'right path' for one event is often different from game to game and situation to situation...so while there are X number of events that can happen, there are more than X different paths, if that makes any sense.

- Kel </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It sounds like you feel there's a lot of replayability in the game, yes?

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Hey, you people do have good taste. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Also worth mentioning, IMO, are Myth: The Fallen Lords and Myth II: Soulblighter (I don't really care much for Myth III.)

Great detailed real-time tactical fantasy/medieval combat with good atmosphere, humor, and interesting tactical problems, good scenarios, and good multi-player. No RTS genre badness like having to gather resources and do construction and R&D while trying to fight. No fake-o wrong proportions of time and space.

PvK

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I actually did fairly decently for a while on bungie.net with Myth 1. More wins than losses, which made me happy enough. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I was *so* disappointed in Myth III. But then again, I don't know what I was expecting, given that Bungie didn't develop it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Well, since I've spent my money for the month on King of Dragon Pass, next month I'll hunt down Europa Universalis II. No bargain bin shall be left unruffled. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks for all the suggestions, folks!

[ March 12, 2004, 02:56: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Speaking of EU2, has anyone been looking forward to Crusader Kings? I was checking it out Last night...and the fact that you'll have the ability to import your finished Crusader Kings games into EU2 so that you can continue play is a very, very cool feature.

As that also happens to be one of the most interesting periods in history (to me), I might have to add yet another game to the "wish-list". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">After being burned by Vicky, I have no intention of giving any more of my money to Paradox until they fix the things that are wrong with their engine that they should have fixed years ago. No matter what condiments you put on it, a burger is still meat in a bun. I'd like my meat to be a bit less raw than the way Paradox is serving it ...

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Myth II is the best RTS (or RTT), hands down.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Myth II was very good, but I still have a soft spot for Starcraft. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Myth II was very good, but I still have a soft spot for Starcraft. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Starcraft...I had a love/hate relationship with that game. Fun, overall, but in particular far too easy to rush, far too susceptible to uncounterable mass-cheese (superweapons) in the late game. I much prefer Dominions, where my supercombatants (and my opponents' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) are counterable with a little bit of forward thinking.

Plus, if I saw someone type "OMG zerg rush KIKIKIKIKIKIKIIIII" one more time, I thought I was going to vomit.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">At times like that, I am thankful that this is the Internet and I cannot actually physically reach people, because if I actually *SAW* somebody type that, I'd be hard-pressed NOT to throttle him to death with my bare hands.

I should immediately begin making plans to dispose of the body in case I ever run into this.

Besides, Total Annihilation is TOTALLY superior to Starcraft in nearly every way.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">For the record, I never said Starcraft was the best. I just said I had a soft spot for it.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have a soft spot for sharp, pointy objects, too, but I'd still rather that people not test that.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, I can understand that. As a game, it had a lot going for it. The user community...and actually the community for every Blizzard game, now that I think about it...was really not so good.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">As a game, the most vivid image that sticks in my mind is a giant spacecraft being shot down by a little man with an assault rifle.

And the community of ANY Blizzard game is terrible, for one very simple reason: As a massmarket game, it'll have a massmarket community. Did I mention that 90% of such a community will be composed of smacktards?

[ March 12, 2004, 21:24: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't know...Blizzard's games (and especially their forums) seem to attract, for whatever reason, an exceptionally special kind of smacktard. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Korean smacktards. Not only are they Korean, so their English is already going to suffer understandably, but they're ALSO smacktards! Even if they were speaking in KOREAN, they would STILL be incomprehensible! There's nothing worse than English-as-a-second-language smacktards.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Hey! I resent that! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

[quote]Originally posted by fahdiz:
I guess what I'm looking for (and I suppose I should have been clearer, since I've gotten a lot of these types of responses) is not so much old classics (as I've been a computer/board/pen-and-paper gamer for a long time) but more the "relatively recently-released, unknown/unsung, unjustly ignored" types of games. I do thank you for the suggestion, though. [...]

I've seen people mention Nethack in this thread, but no one mentioning the Angband derivatives. (Also note: my first post here, I have no idea how quotes / Posts get formatted, so...) Nethack is a classic, with 99 ways to die just with the kitchen sink. I'm not always so sure this is a plus. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

But the Angband derivatives.... Text only (meaning the graphics are only _slightly_ inferior to Dominions 2 (this is meant as a bad joke )), but the magic, weapon, monster, crypt systems... Some of the derivatives suck - for my tastes. Some of the same ones rule - for people with slightly different tastes. There's one's loosely based on Zelazny's Amber (Zangband), on McCaffrey's Pern, etc.

Some have graphics, some don't, some are infuriatingly difficult, others are more difficult *grin* and a few have settings that make things easy. Most have "Ironman" settings, to eliminate any sense of easy, and reduce a game to a matter of hours instead of weeks.

Current games - I've been disappointed in most. But the Dominions 2 demo drew me in enough that even unemployment didn't keep me from ordering it.

Past games? Master of Magic. If it weren't for the mid-to-end-game bugs (ethereal flying ships, etc), I'd still be playing it. Warlords 1 (the original map and race layout was classic / superb). Age of Wonders 2, Shadow Magic? Not so sure about that one, as you get locked into certain magic paths, which gets old.

Anyways - any new Dom2 games starting up soon? I hope to have my full copy tomorrow. (Then again, I hoped to have it Wednesday.)

Rome wasn't burnt in a day,
Cainehill

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Myth II was very good, but I still have a soft spot for Starcraft. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I may be biased, since Myth II is the only RTS I've ever been any good at. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Still, the lack of resource gathering & unit production makes for a different, IMO much better experience. It's not about who can build new units the fastest, as games like Starcraft tend to be.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">See, that kind of deadliness is exactly what I aspire to when creating my own game. Already I can lay claim to the fact that back when it was actually in service as a game, we had more ways to die than any other game of that type.

Clearly, I need more ways to die. Particularly stupid ways, because watching people die stupidly is a national pasttime over on my site.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Sometimes I died in nethack from choking to death trying to eat a fortune cookie when really stuffed. Nethack is great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

As opposed to Nethack, ADOM! It's a hard game, though, and not an easy one to get hold of. But believe me, once you learn the ASCII you can read through the game! For some reason I can't stand the graphics of older Ultimas but I have no problems playing ADOM. BTW, in ADOM you can't choose to play Ironman. It is the norm, and the only possibility programmed in the game...

Wonderful game, anyway. BTW, Illwinter links to ADOM, Dungeon Crawl AND Slash'em. I have thought I should try Crawl too. Has anyone here tried it? How it compares to ADOM?

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">H'm. What do you mean by recent? I feel compelled to put in a good word for Emperor of the Fading Suns, but it's about eight (?) years old now. This seems recent to me, but my standards may be warped. Anyway, it's a lovely little Machevellian sci-fi TBS. The AI leaves a great deal to be desired (it's probably best for PBEM), and the game feels slightly unfinished (some of the intended functionality looks so wonderful that I want to cry), but what it does deliver is very, very solid. I've never found another game (well, except Merchant Prince) that allows for as much conniving political interaction. Which of course only makes me all the more mournful that it wasn't adequetely supported and/or finished. Oh, and the combat model is almost perfect. Routed units aren't quite handled right (IMO), but combined arms are done nicely.

Anyway, shortcomings aside, I'll finish my (qualified) gushing endorsement by pointing out that, despite all of its shortcomings, it's been continuously installed since I bought it...

[ March 13, 2004, 21:33: Message edited by: E. Albright ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Bah, if not for Nethack there'd have been no ADOM. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Same with Nethack. You die, game over.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I've played Dungeon Crawl, and think it stacks up quite favorably to ADOM. The way it handles line-of-sight is quite brilliant, actually.

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

I missed the Black Isle/Interplay bashing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Anyhow, Geneforge 1 and 2 are very good, from the dude who made Exile. Also see Avernum 3, a nice game much in the same vein of Exile.

Arcanum is very hit-or-miss. Not really an indy game, though. Arcana, on the other hand, which is as indy of a game as you can get for a console, is one of the underrated gems of the Super Nintendo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif 3D dungeon romp with neat graphics and a fairly good soundtrack, for a 16-bit game. And lots of nostalgia from long ago . . .

[ June 06, 2004, 18:52: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Hit the ol' edit post button too soon...

[ March 14, 2004, 18:31: Message edited by: Truper ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">H'm. What do you mean by recent? I feel compelled to put in a good word for Emperor of the Fading Suns, but it's about eight (?) years old now. This seems recent to me, but my standards may be warped. Anyway, it's a lovely little Machevellian sci-fi TBS. The AI leaves a great deal to be desired (it's probably best for PBEM), and the game feels slightly unfinished (some of the intended functionality looks so wonderful that I want to cry), but what it does deliver is very, very solid. I've never found another game (well, except Merchant Prince) that allows for as much conniving political interaction. Which of course only makes me all the more mournful that it wasn't adequetely supported and/or finished. Oh, and the combat model is almost perfect. Routed units aren't quite handled right (IMO), but combined arms are done nicely.

Anyway, shortcomings aside, I'll finish my (qualified) gushing endorsement by pointing out that, despite all of its shortcomings, it's been continuously installed since I bought it... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Are you aware of the fan-made mods? They went a long way toward fixing some of the problems in the original EFS. If you're interested, I can probably locate the site again - it been quite a few years since I was invilved with EFS - but it sure was a great game...

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

Well, this weekend I broke down and ordered EU2 (found it for $11 Online, couldn't find it in the bargain bins of the usual game stores I frequent)...so that'll be arriving soon. One quick question about EU2 - is it possible to mold the state religion of your nation of choice, or do you pretty much have to tow the line of recorded history?

For example: if I wanted a Catholic China or a Buddhist British Empire, could I do so in EU2?

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No - not without modding (which is easy as all event and all save files are plain text format for easy editing).

You can change between Catholic-Protestant-Reformed Protestant at will (though you suffer a bit of turmoil when doing so), but all other religion changes have to be either scripted (e.g. all Indian nations have a chance to become Sunni muslim through events) or forced. Sunni/Shia's can force-convert each other as can Catholics-Protestants-Reformed, and everybody can force-convert the pagans... (Though it is much more profitable to conquer them and send out the missionaries)

It is possible to create weird-religion vassal states, however, by conquering a country, converting its provinces, and releasing the country as a vassal. This is not cost-effective, but can be quite fun. [A few nations have hard-coded religion when you release them, but in general a new country gets the starting religion of its capital province]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm quite aware of them, but thanks for the offer. And yes, they did do a lot for balance (I for one prefered Hyperion). Tho' in that vain, I could have done (and did do) a lot for balance in a few minutes with a text editor...

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No - not without modding (which is easy as all event and all save files are plain text format for easy editing).

You can change between Catholic-Protestant-Reformed Protestant at will (though you suffer a bit of turmoil when doing so), but all other religion changes have to be either scripted (e.g. all Indian nations have a chance to become Sunni muslim through events) or forced. Sunni/Shia's can force-convert each other as can Catholics-Protestants-Reformed, and everybody can force-convert the pagans... (Though it is much more profitable to conquer them and send out the missionaries)

It is possible to create weird-religion vassal states, however, by conquering a country, converting its provinces, and releasing the country as a vassal. This is not cost-effective, but can be quite fun. [A few nations have hard-coded religion when you release them, but in general a new country gets the starting religion of its capital province] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Excellent. Thank you, Peter, for the valuable information. I'm also glad to hear that the game is so easily moddable...that's outstanding!

Mostly I was thinking about in-game religion changes as opposed to starting with that particular religion...(i.e. China would start out Confuscianist/Buddhist, and I would eventually turn them Catholic), so I'm glad to know it's possible to do that as well, through various in-game means.

I'm excited! In the space of just a couple of months, I've found several new (well, new to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) games, all because of one fantastic game (Dom II).

I'm thinking the upcoming Crusader Kings is my next target. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 15, 2004, 16:41: Message edited by: fahdiz ]

Re: OT: Recommendations?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I cannot but agree. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The first thing you should do when you get EU2 is to download the latest official patch (1.07) and then the latest public beta patch (March 2nd, 2004, available from the Paradox EU2 forum) - and be prepared to treat the manual as a work of fiction - as the game has evolved considerably over the years since its release. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

There are FAQs covering most of the important topics and a friendly user community to help you when you run into problems anyhow.