Re: MP game - \"Pantheons\" Preliminary invite
 

Hehe, I didn't expect so many people as well =P
And if you intend to make another team game, try and invite me please ^^

Im going to sleep now, the only problem is I know that I probably won't have the computer for myself until sometimes late tomorrow...
I'll see how things unfold =P

Re: MP game - \"Pantheons\" Preliminary invite
 

Pickles, please elaborate on this. Am I missing something? You will be compelled to get them all in any event just to maintain communications with your team (assuming, of course, preselected starting positions in team Groups).

I suppose if we have random starting positions where you might start near a couple of enemies, then yes, higher level indies will be more beneficial.

Also, with pre-selected starting spots, the need for a wraparound map is much less critical.

As for graphs, definitely yes for me. Since you always know who the enemies are, then the need to hide your stats when leading the game is not so important.

Re: MP game - \"Pantheons\" Preliminary invite
 

I could not agree more with this comment, as I for sure will take a race I have yet to play on MP no matter what method we use to decide races.

Re: Voting so far
 

This game books pretty cool, but I think I'm in one too many, already (esp.as large alliances generate a lot of work)

One comment; you might want to think about the balance effect of UlM. It could easily turn into a magic item factory fed by all the gems five allies can send it. Protected by its allies, and allowed to concentrate on alchemy and forging exclusively Ulm could become very gross, and massively boost the side that gets it. I don't think any of tho other races would synergise with alliance play in quite the same way.

Mark

Re: MP game - \"Pantheons\" Preliminary invite
 

Quoting Panther re L7 indeps.

"Pickles, please elaborate on this. Am I missing something? You will be compelled to get them all in any event just to maintain communications with your team "

I have had trouble expressing this & it is pregame analysis - something I am prone to but know may well be off the mark (though I took about a decade to figure that out)

Anyway if the independents are weak you will be able to knock them over quickly for little cost in resources & will probably clear them out before meeting your enemies.

If they are stronger you will have to commit more forces to them which is force not available for attacking/defending. Thus you are more likely to only clear a couple of weaker provinces before you have to divert forces to "defence". They will then remain as a strategic option for you later - whether to risk using forces there for future revenues or to keep forces for use against the real opponents.

Hmm not sure if it actually makes any sense - you will probably stop creeping & start fighting as soon as you meet real opposition. Whether this is after you have cleared 3-4 L7 indeps or 7-8 L3 indeps it will be around turn 10. I am not trying to convert anyone I like L7 indeps, it is what I am used to, but I am perfectly happy with L3.

"And what does the Y mean in the voting above?"

Yes to score graphs - noone has said no so they are pretty well in.

Pickles

Re: Voting so far
 

OK there is now a gap in the lineup. I suggest we wait for Yvelina to see if the mysterious tuidjy is in. If not we go 5v5, if he (or she) is then we need one more.

Ulm crossed my mind too. Not just forging - which could be pretty gross though I dont see forge of the ancients staying up long but the Great Alchemist. Ulm could turn an allied Abysias fire gems into 155 gold per turn - or 80 more than Abysia can alone etc.

I had thought of this as an opportunity but it may be too
strong.

We could ban the Alchemist, ban default Ulm, ban both or live with it.

I would be inclined ban the alchemist as that is a problem from turn 1 (well 2) & so most problematic or both (plus I want to try the other themes!)

Anyone else have any ideas?

Pickles

Re: MP game - \"Pantheons\" Preliminary invite
 

Lol, I edited my above post while you were typing this, pickles. I saw in your earlier post that the Y was for graphs and edited my other post to vote yes.

And I had another random thought. (I wonder sometimes how my brain works..)

So far, if you average the indy province levels of people who have voted, you get 5 (which is square in the middle!) Since I think we are all fishing on this because we have exactly ZERO experience with this type of game, then maybe a compromise to five gets us out of this little box.

Assuming we get started soon, then in a month from now, the players in this game can decide if indies were too high or too low. Of course, that has ample opportunity to be yet another endless argument too!

Re: Voting so far
 

As for the Ulm thing with forging, I am currently playing base Ulm in one of my MP games. Because base Ulm gets exactly ZERO random schools of magic on the master smith (the ONLY mage it can recruit), then it still has very limited selections of things to build, no matter how many gems it gets. The forge benefit for Ulm is not all that great because you can only forge the same things over and over. No luck pendant even!

Of course, forge of the ancients changes this radically and would therefore be top priority for the enemies to dispel. I could see a team putting over 100 earth gems into that global enchantment and hoping it Lasts for a couple of turns to do mass forging. Still, that is a very high cost for sure and late game only. The other team, which put those gems into powerful golems instead of this enchantment just might have crushed you by then.

Also a rainbow alchemist that never left home would definitely be advantage to Ulm, but it is easy to simply disallow.

And if the team wants to pour mass gems into empowering the Ulm master smith, well then it will take a long time for the forge benefit to break even, especially for only the level 1 skill artifacts. A viable long term strategy, but it will take a while to reap the benefit.

Also, don't forget that ANY earth magic mage from ANY race can build the forge bonus tools, like dwarven hammers, and distribute them to teammates. This actually reduces one major Ulm advantage, the one that it can make a bunch of those things quicker than any other race can. For the team with no Ulm can just pool earth gems into the proper nation and build a bunch of them. You don't have to wait to pile up the gems, only wait for the Construction research. Don't forget that Ulm is a VERY slow researching race because of the high gold cost per base research level (just 5) on its only mage, the master smith. I believe that Ulm is the slowest researching race of them all, everything else being equal.

Re: Voting so far
 

I thought that looking for pro-Ulm/anti-Ulm strategy could be a fun aspect, but if Ulm is too overpowered, let's ban it. I can't come to conclusion whether it will be too big advanatge for one side or not though...

Also, I'd suggest to leave couple of days between nation assignments to the teams and the start of the game, so that each team can discuss strategies on how to extract the best out of what they got.

Re: Voting so far
 

Hmm, i think i tend to agree with using 3 str indeps over high str indeps, as it will allow for quicker and better teamwork. I also favour the idea of randomly pooling all nations between the two sides and allowing people to pick from their teams pool, this will allow people to avoid nations they dont like, hopefully get a nation they do like, and possibly allow team 'themes'.

Quite a bit is possible under teams that might not seem fair otherwise, thats the whole point of teams, acting like a team instead of 5/6 individuals. For instance if your team has multiple air nations you can have 1 team member rush conjuration and then pool gems/items for a truly beefier Air Queen far earlier than otherwise. Quite a few nasty strategies become available.... imagine a whole team of clamhorders, pool gems for wish, wish for gems and distribute the flavours to whoever uses them best. Or you could have mictlan in the back providing a blood economy for EVERYONE... the possibilities for exploitation of teamplay are dependant only on how clever you are.

Re: Voting so far
 

Only, its not exploitation, its just smart teamwork!
Alliances are very powerful, but thats the whole idea!

Final Set up
 

Ok the votes are in enough to determine so here is the rules set.

Game summary
Rules standard except:-
Indep 5
Site frequency 50
HoF 10
Map – Inland
Score graphs - on
Staling – let your team mates know your password to avoid staling
Nations – No Water nations. No Ermor. No Ulm Master Alchemist .
Each team will chose a short Pantheon name
Your pretender name should include your Pantheon name
(or some other code to show teamness readily – same initial letter etc)

Team A
Pickles
Aku
Boron
The Panther
Tauren13

Perhaps:- AN Other

Team B
Agrajag
Alexti
Cheezeninja
Yvelina
Lex

Perhaps - Tuidjy

Mr Sheap volunteered to host & to pick random nations so please Sheap pick 2 sets of 6 nations & allocate them to team A & team B. You can post them here.

If we have 5 players there will be a spare.
We can then allocate nations to team members.

Once this is done Zen can put them on the inland map in a suitable manner 7 we can start hopefully in the middle of the week.

Thanks again to Zen & Sheap for your offers.

If anyone has strong objections please let me know.
Indeps follow the Panther's very fine suggestion based on the close vote & thus will probably satisfy nooone!

Pickles

Re: Final Set up
 

We need to leave our Emails for easier team communication!
Imagine what would happen after the random teams are "released":
"I claim Abysia!"
"No! You can't!"
"I said so first"
"When two people fight, the thrid gets to keep the prize"
"BLAH BLAH BLAH!!! QRRBIRRBRREL!!!?!!?!!"

So we need to write our Emails down for inter-team communication, see what everyone wants and make a decision (also regarding the pantheon name)

I'll go first guy3pwood (et) hotmail (dot) com.

Re: Final Set up
 

I agree with the principle but sort it out via PM or something not here. I hereby appoint you team captain of Team B so you should sort out your team's communications & have final say on nation distribution. (Can I do that - well I just did)

Our team is already in pretty good communication BTW.

I am trying to remember where you name comes from - is it Pyrates or Monkey Island or something else?

Pickles

Re: Final Set up
 

PMs are not a very comfortable means of communication, but if everyone else on my team thinks PMs are better, we'll communicate via PMs (So send your votes, ppl!).

Agrajag is from "The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy" series, he is a nasty creature that has reincarnated many times and every single time Arthur Dent accidentaly killed him.
He is made up of every animal he reincarnated to and is quite nasty and seeks revenge on Arthur.
Although... Monkey Island rules! =P
I finished every MI besides 2, and Im working on that now (I'll finish 3 and 4 again later).

Re: Final Set up
 

I have my PM's set to email me directly when i recieve them, so unless the forum changeover has changed that reaching me should not be a problem. I'm going to email you anyway Agrajag so you have my email if pms dont work.

Re: Final Set up
 

Sorry argajag
I meant:
a) send out your email address other than in a public
forum eg via PM - though I see you code yours
b) guybrush threepwood

Pickles

Re: Final Set up
 

Now Im confused about what you mean (???)
And "Guybrush Threepwood! Mighty Pirate!"
Also, check this out, I wrote down the entire "How much wood" line of conversation:

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

A woodchuck could chuck no amount of wood since a woodchuck can't chuck wood.

But if a woodchuck could chuck and would chuck some amount of wood, what amount of wood would a woodchuck chuck?

Even if a woodchuck could chuck wood, and even if a woodchuck would chuck wood, should a woodchuck chuck wood?

A woodchuck should chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood, as long as a woodchuck would chuck wood.

Oh. Shut up.

EDIT: Typo, I guess even TYPING the thing is difficult =P

Re: Final Set up
 

Argajag
Your name in your email is guy3pwood or somesuch so - where is that from?

Pickles

Re: Final Set up
 

OH!

Indeed you were right, it IS Guybrush Threepwood!

Want a Monkey Combat Walkthrough I made? =P

Re: Voting so far
 

perhaps we could get an IRC chatroom or something for easy inter-team communications.

and we still need a 3rd party to randomly allocate nations, so we can go ahead and pick and test them

Re: Voting so far
 

It's hard to make it work through IRC chatroom unless all the players are in compatible timezones and on compatible schedules. I think that team-group-emailing is the easiest way to communicate.

Re: Voting so far
 

Without the two water nations and ermor, there are 14 nations. So we might as well randomly allocate the full 7 nations between each two teams. This gives each team an additional choice for choosing races. It will also help to try and get complementary races among team members on the two sides.

We should do this right away so we can practice with our selected race to try to get a decent pretender.

Re: Voting so far
 

I agree with Panthers idea of dividing the remaining 14 nations between the two teams so there is an extra choice to play around with.

Re: Voting so far
 

Fine on all 14

Here are all 14 split randomly into 2 sets by me (!)

Abysia
Ctis
Machaka
Man
Mictlan
Pangaea
Ulm

Arco
Caelum
Jotunheim
Marignon
Pythium
Tien Chi
Vanheim

If someome from team B wants to pick a set we can start haggling or we can wait for a true 3rd party.

Both have a bunch of human races so Yvelina should be ok
once she reappears

Pickles

Re: Voting so far
 

hmm

I wrote a little program to do this:

http://benatar.snurgle.org:8080/~fluffy/rng.c

Here is the results:
Team A:
Ulm
T'ien Chi
Pangaea
Arcosnuffle
Machaka
Marignon
C'tis

Team B:
Caelum
Abysia
Vanheim
Mictlan
Pythium
Jotunheim
Man

Since I went to the trouble of making the program you better use my randoms! <g>

Re: Voting so far
 

outch, our Team B has the cold scales of Caelum, Vanheim, Jotunheim Vs the heat scales of Abysia and Mictlan... we'll have to protect our dominions from each other!!!

any ideas?

Re: Voting so far
 

You *should* have to protect your dominion from each other. Otherwise you get a bunch of free points.

Re: Voting so far
 

Thanks, sheap!

You are definitely a geek. Spending weekend time writing a C program for fun to support people you don't even know in RL.

Just like me! Or more accurately, just like the rest of us. I have not written a C program in over 10 years, so it sure was fun disecting yours. I note that you can reuse it for other people with a different RANDMAX number since you put in all 17 races.


I propose we use Sheap's list (with Pickles team is A as mentioned previously), just to prevent arguments. There is no bias that way since Sheap is a neutral third party. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif
Now, how was it we are supposed to select a nation from this darn list? Shouldn't I know since it was my idea??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Voting so far
 

Thanks Sheap
I was unsure if you were wading through the massed verbiage or not (& getting the usual massive impatience that characterise us newbsishes). Of course we would love to use you races

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Pickles

Re: Voting so far
 

Heh, I read all the threads, even for games I'm not playing in. Since I'm involved in this one I have to read it.

Re: Voting so far
 

I don't know how Team A is planning to choose their nations, but to Team B:
Please Email (or PM) me a list of all 7 nations in order of preference, your expirience with them so far included, I will then hand out the nations to who I see fit. (Being that Im the leader and all =P)
Also, a suggestion for a Pantheon Name would be nice in that Email/PM.

Re: Voting so far
 

Btw, Sheap, what is the joke behind this?

Re: Voting so far
 

It's just really hard to spell Arco the right way. A while ago there was a thread on how it ought to be spelled and I picked "Arcosnuffleupagus" which is, in fact, almost as bad as the original http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So I shortened it.

Not that exciting, but you asked http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Voting so far
 

I used to have trouble with this before studying the word to make sure I was pronouncing it correctly:

The syllables are:
1. Ar - pronounced 'R'
2. cos - pronounced just as spelled, like cost but without the 't'
3. ce - pronounced as 'uh'? maybe, not sure on this one
4. phale - pronounced 'fail', the odd English rule where ph is pronounced as an f

Although, I had to go look the spelling up before posting this to make sure I got it right... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Oh well, it made a good story anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Voting so far
 

i just say arco and thats it lol

this should be an interesting game

Re: Voting so far
 

ar-COS-ca-feil
Is how you say you pronounce it, only in a more obvious way =P
BTW, if you team B pretenders have an idea for a strat, put it in the Email/PM as well. (I already got PMed one =P)

Re: Voting so far
 

Hmm R'cosuhfail

I always say Arco sef ally or arco sef alley (hmm some always)

It means Highhead or similiar dunno if that is a reference to something

Pickles

Re: Voting so far
 

There was a thread a while back that traced Arcoscephale to its Greek origins. And I think it was agreed it should be pronounced

Arkos-ke-falley

(ok, hard to explain in written form...)


edit:

and

Re: Voting so far
 

I just pronounce it ar-kos-ka-feil, because kos kafe is a cup of coffe in hebrew (kafe = coffe, kos - cup/glass)
Back to subject - Where are all my PMs/Emails? =P

Re: Voting so far
 

are you in team b http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ?

really challenging to chose a good team with our team A nations . your random program seems to flavour team B http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Voting so far
 

haven't you seen enough Hollywood sport movies? the underdog team is always the favorite to win cos they got 'team spirit'. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Voting so far
 

Depends on what races you like. I suppose since people seem to like Abysia, Vanheim, and Caleum, then by these standards, the B list is better. But they will have conflicting temperature scales as pointed out already. We will not since, IIRC, all our races but one like neutral temp scales. Plus we get Ulm and Pangaea and Arco, which are all quite good races.

Pickles - I don't know how you are going to assign races, but I will take any one of these four choices:
T'ien Ch'i
Pangaea
Machaka
Marignon
This is mainly because I am already playing the other three races in MP right now and I want a new challange. Plus having different races in all my MP games will help an old guy like me keep them straight.

As for Tauren, he said he did not care, but I know he is currently playing C'tis and Machaka in MP so I expect he would prefer one of the other 5 races on the list.

Re: Voting so far
 

Hmmmm...
So far Cheezninja and Yvelina seem to be gone...
We'd have to wait and see if they come back to life :\
http://planet.nana.co.il/ilikeeatingschintsel/Wall.gif

Re: Voting so far
 

oh we have ulm i thought the others have ok i am quiet again http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

i could play :
ulm
ctis
arco

i would prefer ctis or ulm
i guess nobody likes ctis so my chances are probably quite good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Voting so far
 

Tauren said he liked Marignon as did aku - I emailed them could you all pm me os other wise get email addresse to me so we can communicate that way please

(I could PM everyone I suppose...)

I was hoping there would be no conflicts on races & it looks that way (almost)

Machaka - me
Uml Ctis Arco - boron
Tien chi Pangaea - Panther
Marignon - Aku or Tauren
So provided either Aku or Tauren will change we are OK

Not sure what is happening with our other team - I will wait a day then open up it again. Maybe start a new thread with the game proposal clearly laid out & close this one.

Pickles

Re: Voting so far
 

If Tauren really wants Marignon then he can have it. I can play filler to whatever race we need filled on the team if that helps any. My primary choice is Marignon but I will do what is best for the team.

Re: Voting so far
 

You know you have made a good distribution of the nations when both sides are complaining about the nations they've got to use http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I think it is good - the blood nations are evenly distributed, team B has perhaps the stronger races on balance, but none of them have anything strategically or tactically in common with each other. Team A on the other hand has less powerful races which will work together more smoothly.

I assure everyone though that the races were distributed by the random generator http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Voting so far
 

OK, Command decision here. After consultation with Tauren and reading the Posts here, I have come up with the following assignments, which should make everyone happy (or equally unhappy???):

Pickles - Machaka
Boron - Ulm
Aku - Marignon
Tauren - Pangaea
Panther - T'ien Ch'i


Does this sound good?
This gives us a rainbow distribution of starting gem income, missing only air (unless in the unlikely event Aku chooses Conqurerors of the Sea). Team B has all the air races, I noticed...

Team A nations
 

Yes

Pickles