Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

I know i plan to do this turn tomorrow morning when i am "mental newer" . It is 7 a.m. now i didn't intend to stay up so long but especially today the forum discussion was so interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Ah, the F-22 Raptor is definitive of it's generation of Stealth Class combat aircraft. Unfortunately it costs more than you will make in 3 generations, not including it's armaments or navigation systems. I doubt there is or will be another national aircraft that will compare to it and it's subsequent Versions for another 10 years.

Though considering the outlandish contracts given to military contractors at this point (due to federal funding) by the US Government you'd be hard pressed to find another nation with that kind of budget.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Aye, both games are very good. If I would have to choose I would have chosen CM, partly because ot its amazing level of autenticity. It is as close as you can get to commanding real sqard, company, batalion or even division of any nation in World War 2 battle using today's technology. But both games are great and both play very differently, so it is the matter of personal choice. One is more tactical and authentic, another is more strategical. Pick your poison or play both. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Answering your question - yes, I owe both CM1 and CM2 games and AK expansion. I also used to have huge collenction of CM scenarios and operations (compaigns) for both CM games.

The CM3 will be in the development for a very long time, so don't hold your breath for it. Battlefront said that they have pushed the current CM engine as far as they can (which is pretty much true, there is not much more you can do to enhance the game). So they are going to do completely new and fully 3D engine, to push CM seria to the next level. Since they are building everything from scratch, it'll be quite a while before we will see CM3. But if they are going to implement 1/2 of the features they say they are going to put into it, I am going ro buy 10 copies of the game for myself and my friends and relatives. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif



I liked some ideas implemented in Victoria, but overall I din't like the game too much. EU2 IMO was so much better. But than again I think EU2 was a masterpiece, despite rather lacking AI and several other drawbacks.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

The US does not give nuclear technology to Israel. (Which is one reason why Israel spies on the US.) But if you want to continue believing in fantasies, Boron, without bothering to check out the facts, you're welcome to do so. Just, please, don't waste our time with it. It's getting very old and tiresome.

Israel has never used Soviet-made weapons (except what they might capture on the battlefield from the Arabs for later study). You really do need to do a better job of studying history.

The UK would dispute that, and with good reason.

No comment. If I told you I'd then have to fly to Germany, hunt you down, and kill you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

He loves me! I knew it. How sweet. You're such a dear. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Ditto.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

I think I would welcome Zen much more if he would knock off his "cute" little IRC script, which kicks me from Dom2 channel every time he decides to drop in. He put it into effect shortly after Norfleet's cheating was exposed and Norfleet was forced to quit.


Since Zen promptly ignored all my Messages that I've send to him asking to stop kicking me from the channel, as well as those from other players, including channel moderator, asking him to stop it, I assumed he actually enjoys doing so just because he can. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img]


This being the case it is not surprising that I find historical WW2 subject as well as hardcore strategy games subject that was being discussed here much more intersting than the subject of Zen's return... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Heh, I told you we are in agreement quite often Arryn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

As long as the subject isn't Dom 2 ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Well in a book which i have they write that knowledge Israel had about soviet tanks + new developments thanks to the mossad that this flew into the Design of the Merkava I tank as well .
So knowing how well the Mossad works why shouldn't i believe this then when i read it in a book about tanks ?
Furthermore as you said they used captured soviet tanks from the Arabs very inventive for e.g. their APC Achzarit .


With your further comments i guess you are just kidding or do you really work for the american government in a position with insight i as an european can never get ?

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Actually it was there much previous to that. I simply wasn't there very often because I didn't need it.

No, I ignored all your Messages because you got placed in the special place that is /ignore where people who pester you relentlessly for no reason other than to spell badly and foam at the mouth go. The others expressed to me their desire for you to stop pestering them and I told them that you, of course, would whine at them regardless of what I did, so we came to a mutual understanding that I could care less if you are kicked while I am there. Consequences for your actions, even on the Internet, yah?

Considering how misinformed you are about most of it, I'm not surprised you are interested in talking about it and I have no problem with it as I said earlier, Topics always veer wildly off course and I would not expect this to be any less. Though I wish Arryn would not bait Boron so much, she should know that some people are just as opinionated as she is (Hah!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Studying a Russian weapon (on testing grounds, or how the enemy has employed it) is not the same thing as using it operationally as a part of one's own equipment. You are using the knowledge gained from the weapon, not the weapon itself.

No offense, but you seem to have trouble understanding what you read/see, in interpretation thereof, and/or in coming to conclusions. I don't think it's an issue of your being German, either, because I don't see this problem with other Germans I correspond with.

As I said above, they studied them, not employed them. I think you are mistranslating the word "used" in the context being discussed.


I was joking.

However, I did serve decades ago in the US Army (in an armored unit), and I stay current with things that are of interest to me, insofar as I can as a civilian. I am also active politically, and I voraciously read history and tech books (as well as SF/fantasy) and I'm pretty skilled at information research (which I first learned to do for science fair projects in high school, then later in college when I was majoring in physics). You'd be amazed at what you can learn on your own when you put your mind to it. The hard data on nukes I pulled from the web in a few seconds while I was replying to you. The rest was from my memory.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Boron, it seems that anyone who doesn't take Tom Clancy and JR Tolkien as reputable sources for real world information have an insight that you'll never have.

Rather like the way you've been sharing your "insights" on game balance, when you just posted that you'd never gotten to the end game before.

I guess you've been using the 1-900-psychic friends network to know how end game balance works out, eh?

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

If you consider that "baiting", I cringe to think what you'd say if I actually went out of my way to deliberately bait someone. hmmm ...


I do. Welcome back. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif {that's touche, if you're scoring}

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Most of the information you can find about operational limits and theoretical analysis of nuclear payload, distance, and detonation time along with hypothetical responses can be found all across the 'net. It's major currency for conspiritorial nuts.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Well as the past indicates, Hitler + Boron = Hate. And starting a conversation doing anything other than agreeing with his (invalid, or suppositional) opinion will provoke a reaction. From what we know of Boron this reaction will often be less than reasoned and thus, by your unescapable need of logical nature, reply to him correcting. And then, it continues and totally veers off course, because most of the time when presented with a logical arguement, most escape to changing the subject or focusing on minor or out of context aspects. YES?!

And of course, I think your hair is pretty.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

The only conspiracies (besides the GOP, which is one big conspiracy masquerading as a political party) that I believe in are that of the JFK assassination, and that various governments know more about UFOs than they are letting on. But I prefer not to speculate on just what the info that's being hidden is.

I don't believe in the Illuminati, or in secret Vatican cabals (a la Prince of Darkness and other such movies), or in some nether plot by game publishers to deny us ever seeing a decent successor to MOO2/FO2/XCOM2.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

How accurate! Bravo! You even pegged my Pavlovian need to react to illogic. Jolly well done, chap!

Flattery works. Did you take a sensitivity course during your brief hiatus? I like this "new" you much better ...

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

You don't? How else can you explain it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Hey Zen, welcome back - I hate it when Arryn and I are the only honest (ie blunt) highly opinionated people who use logic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Maybe now you're not busy moderating, you'll have more of a chance to play. I'd love to show how much I've improved from my Turmoil 3, Luck 3 days. (It's _so_ much better with Turmoil 2, Luck 3. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

I'm pleased you're back Zen.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Welcome back Zen!!!

Thanks to the one that cast "Ritual of Ribirth" ... how many death gemes ?

One of the biggest Hero in the Dom2 all of fame is now back in the world! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So now I can start to bother again you with my perpetual request about you BSQR ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

good play ... that's really a good beginning for a raining day of work!

Liga

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

For the sake of keeping this discusion civil and polite, I am skiping the rest of your message with all its insults.


You said that you have not seen my Messages because they were put on "ignore". All right, let's assume that it was the case here. Now you have seen this message. So I ask you to remove your script and stop baning me from the channel, that you almost never visit yourself these days. I am currently in several Dom2 games with most other Dom2 channel regulars, and we meet on IRC to talk and discuss our trades and diplomacy daily. You, on the other hand, are almost never there.

But even if you are going to start visiting and spending there most of your time, as you used to do before you "retired" and put me on "ban" list as your parting gift, it does not matter, since I am there to talk with my in-game friends and partners, that's all. For good or for bad it is the only active Dom2 channel around that is visited by this forum's regulars at this moment, and you know it.



So, I am going to say this here in public: Zen, I have no intentions of speaking to you in Dom2 IRC channel ever again.

Here, I've said that. Therefore there are no possible reasons for you to keep kicking me from the channel every time you log in. Unless of course you are recieving a pervent pleasure from abusing whatever little power you may have over other people around you, and causing them grief simply because you can.



So will you please deactivate your IRC script? You can even put me on your "ignore list" if you like, however that would not be nessesery since as I said I have no intention or interest of speaking to you whatsoever.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Well you showed simply that you either didn't read my full post or made the wrong quoting with purpose .

The whole sentence was
So a few words further in the sentence i gave you the PRACTICAL example how they used them .

And what about the Tiran 4/5 tanks ? They were captured T54/55 which Israel used a long time first without much modifications , later with new turrets / armor improvements and now because they became obsolete they removed the turret and built their APC Achzarit out of them . This is very inventive as i wrote and you say they didn't employ them .

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Unfortunately the info at www.af.mil which is the official government site Afaik is very small .
Basically thats all :
A press release from 5/17/2004 :
From www.globalsecurity.org :
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
DOD's Projected Unit
Prices Before and After Restructuring
Production
--------------------------
Low-rate Full-rate
------------ ------------
Units Unit Units Unit
Estimates cost cost
-------------------------- ---- ------ ---- ------
Before restructuring 76 $142.6 362 $102.8
Restructured without 70 $200.3 368 $128.2
initiatives
Restructured with 70 $200.8 368 $ 92.4
initiatives
------------------------------------------------------

</pre><hr />
It is costy but don't you think it is worth it ?
The only Fighter which could perhaps beat a F-22 Raptor would have been the Mig 1.44 but unless they get financial aid from e.g. China they won't probably develop it further .

And what is your opinion about the Joint Strike Fighter ?

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Battlefront , the publisher of your mentioned combat mission series has a game called Strategic command too and now develops a sucessor .
Did you play this game too Stormbinder or anyone else ?

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Hey, Zen, welcome back!!
Great to have you back.
Sorry your thread got... waylaid. But since it already is....

I normally don't mind that fact that I am ignored, but at least grant me opinionatedness and logic!

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

My apology. I was wrong about that. I was unaware of the Israeli Tiran series tanks, as they were all withdrawn from service by Israel before I served in the US Army. (There was Tiran 6, also, which was a captured T62. Israel never had more than 100 of these.)

The Achzarit has been so heavily modified/rebuilt that it hardly counts. About the only thing that's original is the base hull and road wheels. The suspension, engine, controls, weapons, and pretty much everything else has been changed. The only thing the Israelis have done by re-using the base chassis is save themselves the cost/effort of casting a new hull. Still, technically you are correct in that they did use them since rather than casting a new hull for a new APC they reused captured hulls.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

I have. It's a simplistic beer&amp;pretzels clone of an AH Third Reich-style game. Play HoI instead.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

No. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Strategic Command is more like the classic A-H pretzel wargame, "Hitler's War". I found it pretty enjoyable, precisely because it wasn't insane like HoI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

I downloaded the demo . Looks like a panzer general with resources .
Strategic command 2 maybe nice , exactly in between the too simple axis&amp;allies and between Hoi/Hoi 2 .


I downloaded the demo to Combat mission AK really nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Now downloading the Barbarossa demo with the slight hope that there a Tiger or panther or JS tank is included http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Okay, but .... Who are you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

This is a tad belated, but welcome back. Erm, w00t

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

That doesn't include the actual costs, which are bloated to about 150-200% of that number due to the longstanding contracts with Lockheed/Boeing. For maintaining world superiority in aircraft? It's worth it IMO, but having pilots who cannot get enough flight time to maintain their flight status because of the decripitude of Naval and AFC aircraft is more concerning to me as a 'worth' factor.

I highly doubt it, even during the engineering phase of the Mig 1.44 it had too many stress fractures in it's engines during upper G's which while not indicitive of anything (these things can be worked out) it put the publicity setbacks show that that particular development team doesn't have the funding/talent/history to produce an aircraft of the same caliber. Though wars are not won by high tech aircraft alone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Functional, bugetable, maintainable and for it's purpose, everything it should be.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Nope, I didn't Boron. I've read reviews of it though, and lurked on thier forums a little bit when it came out. From what I've heard and read it seem to be a decent game but it didn't strike me as something that I have to buy.

And btw Battlefront is just a publisher for the Strategic Command, the guy who had developed it (and who is developing SC2) had nothing to do with Comabat Missions seria.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Who is the developer from Combat Mission series ?
And do you know if there is any difference between the german Version and the us Version ( censorship ? ) .
Strangely in germany CDV sells it but there is no info who the developer of Combat mission is on their homepage .


I am intending to buy first combat mission 2 because it is lowprice already http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .
I don't know if i should buy combat mission 1 but i will buy combat mission 3 sooner or later too .
Probably combat mission 2 fits my taste most though because i like the russian + german tanks most http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Yes, I think there is. Something to do with Nazi symbolic being illigal in Germany. IIRC I've heard something along these lines on the Battlefront's forums, but I don't remember any details.

As to which game to buy - I would suggest buying just buying CM2 and it's expansion - African Korps, and not spending your time and money on CM1, at least for now. Don't get me wrong, CM1 was a great game, but CM2 is very similar in terms of gameplay and have nothing but hundreds of sbtle and not so subtle improvements over CM1. A lot of scenarios from CM1 were adopted for CM2 as well by fans. With AK expansion it also gives you access to wide range of nations in addition to russians and germans in "Barabarossa to Berlin".

Have fun!


P.S. And yes, german and russian tanks were undoubtfully the best in WW2. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Thnx again Stormbinder .
So Afrika Corps is an expansion only ?
On amazon.de ( the german amazon ) it is sold for 45 € as Combat Mission 3 AK while combat mission 2 is sold for ~10€ .

One other question : In the combat mission demos from battlefield.com there is no blood to see anywhere but only AK demo is in german . So is this the same with the Us Version too or is blood perhaps in the european Version deactivated too ?

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Yes, it is not CM3, just an expansion. But it is good one. Sand storms in the desert, dust clouds raised by tanks obscuring visibility, multy barreled tanks, a lot of new nations with all their equipment and units, etc. But it is not CM3, which as I said will be in development for a long time.


Frankly I have no idia about blood in demo vs real Version. Never payed much attention to it in CM. But I don't think there is much blood in this game. Considering the small size of the units on the standart game resolution, what would you want to see? Few red pixels over white background as indicator of mortally wounded soldier dying in the frozen steppes of Mother Russia? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It is not a 1st person shooter after all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

But if you are looking for realism I can tell you that each nation soldiers shoots orders and commucate with each other in native language during the battle. And it can actually help you quite a bit if you understand the nation's language, since there is a lot of information about your units actions and attitude that can be gained from listening to what they shoot. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Not to mention it adds a lot of atmosphere to the game.

I even picked up few german and french words that I didn't know before from listening to this game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Cool the decision which Version to buy is not longer necessary http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
They offer it now in a special edition with all 3 Combat mission games included and for "only" 30€ while AK alone is still sold for 40€ http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
Hopefully they send it soon . That waiting will kill me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

So, Zen, you decided to be a moderator again after all. My condolences, er, congratulations.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

No, I'm not doing much of the moderating bidnezz. But I will be doing much of the "FAQ"ing bidnezz and trying to catch the Community Support back up to the Outrageous Depth of the game.

My time is not going to be spent moderating or watching or curbing potential train wreaks. But rather doing the things that everyone always asks me for/about http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Are you going to lock the info sticky threads (and create separate reply-to threads) as you once had (which was a cleaner system than at present), or are you leaving the stickies as is?

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

If you'd like I could lock and redirect. Only issue of that is, what happened with the forum upgrade. Not that I think it was a bad upgrade, in the least, it did kill all the links and created a massive void of information.

I prefer the lock and reply thread mode and it's alot easier to maintain and keep up to date. It's actually something I'd like people here to venture an opinion on. Now that the threads are sortable, I would like to attract alot of the prodigal children of Dom2, as well as create the newbie friendly enviroment (again).

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Well, for your first opinion, I like the stickies the way you had them before your hiatus: locked and with a prominent link in the top post pointing to a dedicated reply-to/comment thread.

OTOH, I'm presently maintaining the AAR sticky, which you'd have to take over from me, if you don't mind doing so. Ditto Liga's mod sticky.

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

The Snazzy thing is if I lock the Thread you *should* still be able to edit the original content of the post. So if I delete superflous Posts and lock the Thread, and you create the respond thread, you will still be able to edit your post in order to keep it up to date.

What lovely elbows you have M'dear!

Re: From the mouth of Aristotle
 

Cool. I/we can have cake and eat it too! I can hardly wait. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif