Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

I have space on my server to host the savegames if you want. Send me an email or PM.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

I thought there was a large limit to file attachment sizes here? Upwards of 30 MBs? Try using RAR compression format. Generally much better than ZIP by all accounts. http://www.rarlabs.com

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks Timstone!

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

But the file that wanted to upload has only 1.5 Mb.


hehehe, I ziped it using Winrar.
Always I use RAR, just used the zip format because with Zip had 1.5mb and with RAR 1.4 (both with best compression), then, considering the zip it's the most popular format and the difference was not so big, decided to keep it with the zip format.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

It would be great! Already sent a PM! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Pyrochette vs Namovans

A game between 2 Temporal races.
The Pyrochette won at the turn 230.
Was interesting but the Pyrochette killed all the Namovans planets before the turn 200 (a sun destroyed finished the 3 homeworlds...). But the Namovans lost the Last ship many turns after it (due lack of resources, of course!).

The Namovans are a good AI, but looks somewhat outdated (sad Alpha Kodiak had not time to update them). The Pyrochette always had the initiative, and for the time the Pyrochette's BA started to show his power, the game was already decided.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Space Vikings vs Corrian

The Space Vikings won at the turn 330.
It was a very interesting game. The Vikings had many problems to defeat the Corrian. In fact, around the turn 200 sill the game don't seemed decided.
Really it was nice to see so great ships designes in both sides.

This group has 4 great AIs! (Right now I'm looking the match between the Orks and Piundon, and it's very interesting!).

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

I don't see the problem?

"You may attach a file if you like (no bigger than 30000000 bytes please)."

1.5 MB is much, much smaller than ~30 MB, so you should have no problems uploading it. Did an upload fail, or what? If so, some bug has occured and Richard/Mindi need to fix it.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

The Page is up!
It can be found at MB's AI Deathmatch Files

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

I have a DSL connection, but not so fast (256/64). Then, uploading I need some time... maybe it's really a timeout (looks like that).
If instead the 6000 seconds the error message said, the limit is 60.00 seconds (the message doesn't show the "."), it would be the reason.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thank you Gandalph!

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Orks vs Piundon.

The Orks won by points at the turn 500.
Think it was the best game until now.
The Orks always had a great final sprint... and this time was not different.
The Piundon started much better and around the turn 200 I believed they would reach the victory! Conquered one of the Orks's systems and started to destroy another one with several strong fleets...
But again, at the end the Orks managed to stop the invasion and counter attack.
In my view, two very good AIs!

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Aquilaeian vs Klingon.

The Aquilaeian won at the turn 280.
The Klingon looks somewhat outdated and with several flaws in his ships designes (sad God Emperor have not updated their scripts from a long time).

If the Aquilaeian can survive until build BA ship, they can be a very strong opponent (with shipyard 3, can build BA attack ships in just 3 turns!).

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Here the fixture for the second round.

Every AI will play 4 games.

GROUP B1
First A1
Second A2
Third A3

GROUP B2
First A2
Second A3
Third A4

GROUP B3
First A3
Second A4
Third A5

GROUP B4
First A4
Second A5
Third A1

GROUP B5
First A5
Second A6
Third A2

GROUP B6
First A6
Second A1
Third A3

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

I find this interesting but again Im wondering if there might not be a use for a program which will (slightly) randomize AI settings. Within the race descriptions of course. Just enough so that their preferences, abilities, trade agreements, responses, etc are not so well known.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Think that program doesn't exist for SE4.
The only way to randomize your games against the AI, is having many many races installed and start a game against random opponents... For sure every game will be different.

Anyway, considering all the time have spent tuning my races, you can bet I wouldn't like to see them randomized by a program! hehehehe

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

I knew it didnt exist but it wouldnt be difficult. It would be an external exe like mod-launcher. Clicking on it would make enough small changes to files in order to make them new. I was thinking that we might even want to move to an "acceptable_variants.txt" text done by the races makers.

I havent played the game as much as most here but even now if I see the Kithran green-guys near my home system I have an idea of how important it is to take out early, what trades I should make, what it likes and doesnt like. Having them randomized to start with different techs, different plus/minus on my actions, maybe ship designs and formations, then it would be enjoyable to have to find out each time.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Play SE3... races were completely randomized there. It sucked...

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

I understand your point GP.
Anyway, think still you could try my suggestion: having many AI races into your HD and playing games with random opponents, is the best you can do.

Of course you could take the Fyron's suggestion, hehehe. I have played that game until death (my records in my SE3 multiplayer games was more than 60 games won, and 2 lost), but now think never will play it again (although still miss many features including the right click menu!).

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Fazrah vs Toron

The Fazrah won by points after the 500 turns limit.

They played a better game than the strong Toron. Think have not reached the victory by death, just because they doesn't build enough ships... Even in the end game, with lots and lots of resources, the Fazrah had only around 250 ships (including colony ships, mine layers, sweepers, etc).

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

CueCappa vs EEE

The CueCappa won by points, at the turn 500.
A balanced game, where the CueCappa was more aggressive and deserved the victory.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Hahaha... those stupid EEE lost! Hah!
I really don't like those single celled dudes. They make great allies, but I just don't like them. Must be their smell...

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

hehehehe, always liked to betray them!
Anyway, must say I really like the EEE scripts done by REX! After crush the original EEE, play against this Version, it's very very different and a lot more challenging!

Have you ever played against the EEEvil?? A very good (for his time) AI and very cool! Sadly, never was updated and then, is far to the current level of the AIs playing here.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Sorry, I get the same feeling with the regular EEE when I play against EEEvil. Not my race I guess.
The new AI files for the EEE, where can I get them?

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

The new files, are the TDM scripts for the EEE.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Thanks for the help Master Belisarius!
How are the AI's progressing?

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

MB, can you upload an AI scripts pack to the AIDM3 page? It would be nice to have all the best AIs in one single zip.

Addition: interesting, is it possible to write a "blitzkrieg" AI which is aimed at fastest victory achievement? E.g., victory in 70-100 turns instead of typical 200-300 turns.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

We will call them "Das Reich". I volunteer to adopt it as my personal shipset. Hehehe...
AT, are you interested to make the shipset? Or someone else with good modeling skills; besides my self. I don't have the patience to make one... and the inspiration.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

That would be good but I get the (frightened and probably incorrect) impression that all AI changes and mods are geared toward making the game more difficult. I guess Im more RPGer and soloplay than war-strategy or multiplay. Id like to see more spread.

I havent looked at all that is avaiable. Im still running pretty much un-modded so I wouldnt be surprised if someone corrected me on this. But what I have looked at so far I have mostly removed. Ive seen huge event files but they seemed to only add bad events. Ive seen mention of AI improvment mods but "improvement" seems to mean "harder to beat". Im sure they do a fine job but if all of the changes are in one direction then the feel of the game changes for me. Im guessing that later on I may want that, but for now Id like to see more variety and general spread of whats there if its available.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

GP, most part of your reflections is true, imho. For example, modding of AI_Speach.txt and AI_Politics.txt files is considered as "secondary" or even "not important" (that's my impression of course). But these files are responsible to AI "personality", so we are losing something with such approach.

At the same time, most of complains were about "weak AI", not "uncreative AI". So I think it was natural for AI modders to boost AI strength, not its RP aspects.
AI modding is a sort of contest, and why should someone write an exremly artistic, unpredictible, but helpless AI? The truth is that there are less than "1000 ways to do it", probably there is only 1 way to make successful AI with a slight set of unsignificant variations.

This game was not developed as a space RPG, it a human players who can make it RPG.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Its not only the speech and role playing. Again, I know Im talking ahead of myself and should look into things more, but it seems like the AIs could be more tactically different. I have seen some which seem to try and win by swarming colony ships, or by building mostly small fighting ships in fleets, or heavily geared toward research, and one which seems to be trying to win diplomatically. Im interested in more of that type of spread.

Some of the best ones I might be missing because they dont want to leave their mods. Does the "darkness" race from B5 concentrate on stealth and intelligence? Do the ferrengi concentrate on trade?

Also Id like more of an even spread in events. I may look into writing more good-luck events.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

You must not have seen the Eye Candy Mod or Adamant... these mods have plenty of good events in them. Plenty of bad as well, but there are good ones.

Most mods are not focused on the AI. Just TDM and AIC, really... Devnull to a minor extent, but it is more focused on balance. Other mods are focused on providing a vastly different playing environment, and the AI tends to be secondary...

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

You may like my Strangers Mod then. It is still in development, but is aiming for prety much what you described. Different flavor races, designs, attitudes, etc. while also being a competetive AI. The basic Mod is complete and I am currently working on the AI files. Hope to have it ready for solo play by Christmas.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

For sure I could. But most of the AIDM3 races are currently included into the TDM, then, think would be somewhat redundant.

TDM Races:
==========
Aquilaeian
CueCappa
Drakol
Earth Alliance
EEE
Fazrah
Gron
Khrel
Klingon
Narn
Orks
Piundon
Pyrochette
Rage
Sallega
Tessellate
Toron
United Flora
Vikings

Non-TDM Races
Azorani
Corrian
Namovan
Teslik
Verduran

About the Corrian and Teslik, already you can download it from the Gandalph webpage.
Maybe I could upload the Azorani, Namovan and Verduran.

With the map I'm using, it's near to impossible.
Does exist to many space between the starting places.
Also, the empty systems in middle means the fleets must attack without resupply, and the AI is not very smart managing the fleet resources.
Many modders (like me) tried to help the AI, designing support ships with supply components and solar collectors, but usually it's not enough. Only when the Quantum Reactor comes, the AI can manage the fleets without worry for the supplies... and usually it takes more than 100 turns.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Earth Alliance vs Azorani.

The Earth Alliance won at the turn 370.
They always had the initiative and the Azorani just defended.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Narn vs Verduran.

The Verduran won at the turn 400.
It was not something new to me, because I did several test before accept the Verduran...

Many files are the same to the United Flora, but they are not a religious race, and the Verduran ships looks weak, very weak. But... they build lots and lots of cheap ships, then, they outnumbered the Narn fleets. A lone Narn DN could kill many Verduran DN, but the Verduran fleets were so numerous that the Narn always was at the defensive and finished losing!

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Rage vs Teslik.

The Rage won by points, at the turn 500.
It was a looong game and the Rage was always at the offensive, but the Teslik managed to survive until the end.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

After the first round of games, here the standings.

GROUP A1
United Flora 1
Khrel 1
Drakol 0
Sallega 0

GROUP A2
Tessellate 1
Pyrochette 1
Gron 0
Namovans 0

GROUP A3
Space Vikings 1
Orks 1
Corrian 0
Piundon 0

GROUP A4
Aquilaeian 1
Fazrah 1
Klingon 0
Toron 0

GROUP A5
CueCappa 1
Earth Alliance 1
EEE 0
Azorani 0

GROUP A6
Verduran 1
Rage 1
Narn Regime 0
Teslik 0

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Khrel vs United Flora

The UF had not problems to defeat the Khrel. They won at the turn 190.
The UF expanded fastest and for the time the Khrel had competitive ships, the battle was already lost.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Great stuff Master Belisarius!
I really enjoy reading this thread.
I think the UF will be the ultimate winner. Damn, no Drakol winner. Ah well, mabe when SE V comes along.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Thanks Timstone! I really enjoy running the games too!

Probably you're right. I think they will win or at least reach the second place.

I have checked the game and the Drakol again used many intel points with counter intel projects... Anyway, think the UF are too strong for most (all?) of the other races.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Drakol vs Sallega

The Sallega reached a fast victory, at the turn 160.
They expanded very quick, and although some ship designes has some problems (for example, 2 Master Computers, a minesweeper component + cloak component in combat ships), they're very competitive (in my view, one of the best races done by God Emperor).

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Pyrochette vs Tessellate

The Tessellate won at the turn 360.

The Tessellate expanded fastest and colonized/invaded many planets into systems that would be colonized by the Pyorchette (around the turn 100). But at the turn 150 the Pyrochetted managed to counter-attack and recover most the planets into those systems.
Anyway, the Tessellate always had the initiative and destroyed a system with a sun-destroyer... and slowly destroyed the Pyrochette systems/planets.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Gron vs Namovan

The Gron reached the victory by points, at the end 500.
It was a boring game. The Gron suffered the "colony ship bug" during a good time, and the Narn was unable to take advantage of that.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Orks vs Space Vikings.

The Space Vikings won at the turn 150.

They expanded very fast, and the Orks were unable to stop them. And for sure, this time the Orks had not time to show his great final sprint... because the Space Vikings crushed them!

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Corrian vs Piundon

The Corrian won at the turn 220.

Really have expected a more even battle, more considering the Corrian started at the upper side (and usually in that place many races suffered the "colony bug").

With this result, to reach the next round the Piundon will need to defeat the Space Vikings... and it doesn't seems so easy.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

Three cheers for the Corrian! Hip Hip Hooray!!

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

What's the connection between race starting position and the "colony bug"?
Is it about limited choice of directions to explore outer space?

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

We never discovered the reason! It's somewhat weird. I saw this problem in random maps too.
Also, don't know why, but some races has less problems than others.

Re: AI Deathmach 3
 

'Colony Bug'?