Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

No, that's ok, you don't really have to do the test. I have a pretty good idea how it would turn out. You could always stick a ring of resilience on the firbolg. Still gonna have problems with the 7 encumbrance from jade armor, though. Maybe go with rainbow armor and just settle for a single attack. Or rainbow and boots of quickness and forego flying.

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

The problem is to get positive dominion when you attack http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
As a defensive force especially vampire lords with vampire horde are not bad http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

Okay, I did some tests with a standard AQ with a Blood Thorn today. I wanted to test the "swarm them with lifeless fodder" strategy.

Basically, I found that Clockwork Horrors are useless. Their 15 fatigue accumulates neverendingly and they never recover fatigue.

I then tested with 60 mechanical men against 1 AQ. This is not exactly cheap fodder mind you. Since I picked Ulm smiths to lead the mechanical men, I found that if the Ulm smiths can break the AQ's mistform with spells, then the mechanical men can kill the AQ very easily. However, without the smiths, it seemed to me that the mechanical men couldn't break the mistform on their own reliably. I suppose that a large enough number of mech men can kill an AQ just by doing one damage over and over again, but it would take more than 60 mech men to do that.

I also tested briefly with a standard bane lord with a wraith sword against the AQ. The bane lord had no chance at all, though the fatigue draining effect of the wraith sword worked as promised. But the AQ simply did too much damage too quickly to the BL. Maybe he would do better with a lightning immunity item, but I'm too tired to test right now.

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

One of ways to defeat AQ is to swarm her with something lifeless and wait until she falls unconcious. After that killing is easy. Of course, if AQ has enough reinvigoration items this plan won't work. But then she has to be vulnerable to some elements.

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

Air queens have a base encumbrance of 0.

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

AQs might indeed be pretty rough.

Although IIRC they have no foot slots which means that for quickness they need one of

*) Jade Armor
*) Heroic Quickness
*) The Deathmatch Trident
*) A friendly water mage with gems casting Quickening

assuming that you're unwilling to empower them or try something funky like a Slave Matrix combined with a Communion Master casting Quickness and/or other buffs.

Jade Armor should cut down the resistances they can have, and it's not that great in terms of damage blocking either, IIRC. Even with Mistform, hm... can a knight's lance break Mistform? That's one of the more damaging, no-magic-involved, common attack forms available. Perhaps a fire-9 or blood-9 blessing would also help (for a probably silly extreme, berserk Lava Warriors with a blood-9 hit *hard*, if memory serves).

Aside from that, their hit points aren't incredible (unlike, say, Tartarians or a well-fed Eater o' the Dead) and they don't regenerate so massive-damage weapons like the Gate Cleavers et al should still be effective.

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

Right... Hmm... Now I wonder how I've managed to defeat not one, but 2 AQ with some mix of clockworks horrors, wights and cheap undead. That was part of big battle, where I had bunch of other troops and mages including astral-weaponed Ice Devil with the Summit, specifically assigned to kill those AQs (but of course, he made sure to stay away from any fighting and preserve valuable equipment he was entrusted with). Other troops were staying at safe distance from AQ too. And AQ's fatigue went over 100 and only after that I've got them killed. I guess, I've missed my mages casting something useful. Too bad I didn't keep replay.

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

Yeah the lack of the feetslot is a bit bad for the airqueens http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif .
Really not easy to make a good Sc . If you take an undead/demon chassis then the herald lance / flamebeau will do their job but the airqueen on the other hand is not invulnerable too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

That's what I'm saying. I thought they were dying from the fatigue, but it seems they just die with no apparent reason. Maybe they were worring about the ID with the Summit too much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

So the only SC's that I know of that are not either magical or undead/demon are:

Firbolgs
Nifel Jarls

and ... uhm I guess that's it. Wowzie.

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

Maybe a golem, but his attack and defense aren't very good.

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

I'm not sure what your point is? Do you think that non-magical units should be Super Combatants? Militia maybe, or heavy infantry? Peasants? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

And actually, those aren't the only ones. Tarrasques, GoR'd, are neither magic nor undead/demon.

But again - given the game doesn't have USMC units or commanders, I don't see many things that should be SCs that wouldn't be magical, undead, unholy, or unreasonable (ie, horrors and such).

And yet, there _are_ another couple of SCs that are national troops. Well, definately as good as Firbolgs, except maybe on leadership. Vanheim's top leaders, the Tuatha, probably some of Pangeaea's mages, and I think some of the water race mages are capable of SCing. (Note : Not being top notch SCs, but there's only about 10 ways to get a top notch SCc, and only 4 or 5 are commonly used, I think.)

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

Troll Kings, Spectral Mages, Black Servants, Shambler Chiefs ..
Ok, the Last ones only make for Pocket-BBs,sorry, meant -SCs, but they're cheap an easy to get.

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

Regarding the AQ being fatigued versus wights et al, the most obvious suspect to me would be the possibility of the AQ not having cold resist >= 100% and therefore being affected by the chill.

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

Hm this makes the Niefel jarls very special . And you can improve them even more by a lvl 9/10 blessing .

Lategame there is one more impressive SC which is neither magical nor undead/demon : Wished natarajas http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


At least vs magical beeing there are not so many brutal things as against undeads like wither bones etc. .
But a Moonblade is damn cheap and 11 damage , x2 vs magical beeings so almost as brutal as a Flamebeau against demons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif


Hmmmm when you use Niefel Jarls with a nature 9/10 bless then they heal and as a side effect your pretender can summon fairy queens to heal their afflictions http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif .

Deccan if you want to you could test Niefel Jarls vs. Banelords , Airqueens and Ice devils . Would be very interesting i think since the Niefel Jarl can cast quickness + BoW too to improve his abilities even further .

Hm the Niefel Jarl needs no quickness , will have improved stats by one lvl 9 blessing and is available from turn 1 on and has all slots available .
Base attack / def of 12 but +1/coldlevel so in cold 3 base att/def of 15/15 and 100% CR + chillaura .
Extremely frightening .

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

Dont forget about the Elfbane that is an instant kill vs magical beings. MR negates but still its cheap and potentially deadly.

Re: how do damage multipliers work?
 

Yep, I think that's what happened.