Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Why first action? There isn't enough range. So if you want to bet on petrify you better make sure you have no quickness and script something like ironwill+summon earth power+petrify x3+attack. And bring wraith crowd. But it won't work so well if the opponent relies on some monster with one gazillion of various attacks and scripted on attack.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Ok, We're Full. The final list is:

Azhur, Azhur.
Turin, Blubba.
Jurri, Rocky. (2nd version)
The_Tauren13, Brick.
Graeme Dice, Horalak.
quantum_mechanic: Spathi-god (2nd version)
Saber Cherry, Gaap.
Huzurdaddi, (name unspecified).
Alexti, Castor.
Oversway, Grrrr.
Turms, Jeppe.
Yvelina, (name unspecified).
Tuidjy, (name unspecified).
Ygorl, Bam-Bam.
Ighalli, Draughlin.
Chzar, Todd Brawn.

I'm gonna go to school now, so if you want to do any last-minute changes, you have about 6 hours. please fill up at least some of the names http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

I quess you just forgot or something. Too bad, I really would have liked to see Zen in action. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Tuna listed only 16 pretenders, so there is place for Anthrax as the 17th. Maybe Zen is trying to surprise the others?

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Can I rename Gaap to "Hello Kitty"?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Suddenly I feel much less genuine... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Oops. I feel really dumb now. Well, as a defence listing them was the first thing I did in the morning, so there's no reason to expect I actually could count while typing that.

So, still taking one entrant, whoever is first gets it. If there's no new post in a hour or so, I'll even take duplicates. Coding in the present ones first.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

I just found another sliiight problem. There are 2 sphinxes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I quess I'll just have to mod him strategic move and hope that that'll work.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Zen is not on the list, but has already announced he is on the game. You just forgot him from the list.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

What else could you do, even for 1 sphinx?

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Teleport, but that would screw the order of battles...

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Cant teleport a sphinx. Just doesn't move...

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Didn't forget, but never got the PM, of which I have mentioned several times here.

Anyway, just cant't do it with the sphinxes. (sp?)

They are just too immobile to move, even when given additional strat move. So, at least other of the sphinx owners has to change pretender, and if other of them wants to keep his he has to pay with having to fight EVERY single battle in order to win...

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

What about a mod? I don't know how to take that "fist" attack go away, so he gets -1 def and weak attack. I quess that could be worked around by adding new weapon, "Useless Thing", with -100 damage, -100 attack, +0 defence and length 0. That would still give the sphinx possibility of attacking, which would fatique it, and enemy chance to repel.

#modname "Sphinx Mod"
#description "A Sphinx Mod, to add a moving Sphinx for Tuna's competition."
#version 001

#selectmonster 159
#clear
#clearspec
#name "Sphinx"
#descr "A Sphinx."
#ap 2
#mapmove 1
#hp 500
#size 6
#prot 30
#str 20
#enc 0
#att 5
#def 0
#prec 10
#mr 18
#mor 30
#gcost 60
#rcost 0
#pathcost 40
#startdom 4
#itemslots 4096
#poisonres 100
#amphibian
#neednoteat
#inanimate
#end

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

I do not get the problem entirely (first attack?), but isnt it somehwat odd to allow non-teleporting immobiles at all? I thought this is a competition about the best all-purpose SC-hunter and I have difficulties to imagine a sphinx hunting around highly mobile SCs...?!

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

1 sphinx or other immobile could start in the fight province, but yeah 2 is problematic...

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

BTW: What happens if two fountains battle each other? Is it simply the case that the defender wins by the battle turn limit?

---

I also noticed that you did not ask where the combatants should be placed on tactical setup...?

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

With all this effort being put into this competition, you might as well run the fights several times and see whether there are any consistent winners and losers.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Yeah, planning to. But first I need some more competitors, as there are only 14 left now.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Well, the fountains likely have spells to duel each other with, so it's not inconceivable that one wins. They might also summon monsters to help...

If neither kills the other before the time limit, the attacker presumably explodes at the "all attackers who haven't retreated instantly die" mark.

I wonder how viable an all-offense 'Ginsu the Damned' approach (e.g. Nataraja casting Curse and Astral Weapon, then using a ridiculous number of attacks to maim the enemy into a blind, crippled, feebleminded mute) would do; it'd be readily countered by regen, I think, but would perhaps be amusing anyway.

Different tack from a hypothetical 'Zzzz' approach (e.g. Ettin Mandragora w/ E3, RoWizardy, stockpile of Earth gems, casting Petrify and then attacking with those nasty sleep vines), or perhaps an absurdly extreme 'Tim "More Power' Taylor' approach going for pure damage.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

This sounds like what I went for. I don't think it will do so well but it was fun to design. Hmm, I probably should have used a Nataraja chassis instead of what I used. Oh well.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Nooo! He did it again! Stop posting! Why exactly do you think that I put all those regen items on my petrifier-combatant??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/Injured.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

I just replaced the sphinx design I had with something more reasonable. Let the games begin! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

That's a good approach, but maiming is not necessary. With few life draining weapons he will fatigue anything non-lifeless. And lifeless SC has many other problems. Regeneration is not likely to help either (maybe, except some super-Tartarian with 2 regen items and casting personal regeneration). However, very high defense will counter such Nataraja. Damaging shields and high attack/high damage can counter Nataraja too.

The ultimate gamble I think is Gifts from Heaven. You can score the hit across the field and even one hit is an instant death for most SC. The problem is that even with precision in 30s it doesn't hit reliably. The win/lose ratio is pretty good, but not enough to win against several SC in a row.

Funny style is to take nature loving tartarian with MR penetration items and script on attack, Charm x 4. If it succeeds, you'll have 2 SC in the next battle, increasing the chances to charm another SC. After couple of successul charms it will become virtually unstoppable http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I think that in term of chances this plan may be the best overall, but it's either win a contest or lose immediately.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Oh, with the regeneration I had in mind its effect on affliction chances moreso than the hp healing. IIRC, once cursed you have a greatly increased chance of afflictions per hit -- but regeneration cuts that down to more acceptable level. Against life draining rather than maximizing sheer attack count / maiming, yeah, it matters a bit less.

Gifts from Heaven would be amusing and effective if it hits, although with the number of shots it might take you'd probably want to have storms up and be blinking to slow down (most... not Air Queens, Pazuzu, similar) attackers from meleeing before you hit. (Hm, has anybody been killed by his own badly-aimed Gifts when the enemy got close?)


Odd thought: Is there a chance that the first winners might get heroic abilities that would skew things? Well, they won't be of high magnitude... but at what level do heroic quickness or precision start? 'course, if these abilities are only added at the end of the turn after all battles, then it doesn't matter.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Good one would be to squash both SC by a single set of gifts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Tuna could make a map with 10 indie commanders who have so much experience that they won't be pushed off the Hall of Fame list during the competition turn.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

That's not "the immortal bug" - that's "the immortal feature!"

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Sorry, was rather busy today, and will probably be for good part tomorrow. I'll do it by saturday the latest.

On the plus side, Zen sent me his. Actually, I think his design is rather good for real gaming, but I wonder if it'll last 5 seconds in this match... Well, we'll see.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Any news on this?

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Sorry. RL kicks you in the head when you least expect it... I spent most of the weekend coding and frankly, I couldn't bring myself to write the pretenders down when I've just spent 20 hours in front of borland Jbuilder.

I'll do them today, honest http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

No worries! I can live with some delay before I learn of my defeat...

(Isn't it good to be pessimistic? You're never disappointed about the results you get!)

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition!
 

Apparently my word is still worth zilch. The clock is 0:49 and I'm damned tired. All pretenders written in but still have to generate the game, research the spells, and set orders. I'll do it first thing tomorrow after school.

The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

Well, someone suggested this. The results were repeating, until a certain pretender joined the stage, winner was uncertain, after that all fights were taken by him.

What is really funny is that abysia had some hilarius 2-fight performance, looking like sure winner in the first fight but not following his script on the second.

Notes: I hope I got everything right, if you think I messed something up I still have the save from turn before, so I can fix it and see if results still correlate.

The battle order is not random at ALL, it's just direct order of nation numbers.

I forgot to do the exp thingie, but there were only 2 heroics in the fights, both with precision and neither used spells that uses precision.

Oh, am I going to announce the winner?

No, you'll have to dl the file and see fot yourself. The winner combatant is named after a forum name.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

Whoa. Its direct order of nation numbers? Is that how it is with normal battles? People have always said it was random but I dont know of anyone having actually tested it.

Can't wait to d/l this when I get home!

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

can you post the turn file for 1 before the battle?

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

Nice battles! Good strategy person who shall remain nameless, dont want to ruin it for others who have not seen the battles.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

Why not.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

:cries:

And I was doing so well...

I think Hellbinds and Mind Enslaves are UNFAIR! I mean, that's not what did me in, but it probably would have http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif A contest without them would be much more fun, since they change it from a "Supercombattant" contest into a "Supermage" contest that depends only on who goes first.

Also, I like the way my tail was chopped off, and then regrew for the next battle! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit:

Thanks for hosting this, Tuna!

Edit 2:

Hope that didn't sound like I was whining... I was whining, of course, I just don't want it to sound like I was http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

The reason that Abysia and Panagea did not follow the script in the second fight
is that 'Hellbind heart' and 'Petrify' have maximum ranges. I thought that
the winner was going cold turkey on Dominions... If I had know she was entering
the contest after all, I'd have stocked on more magic resistance ;-)

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

Ah well I should have used a better chassis. Maybe a nat instead. Probably wouldn't have helped in the end. At least I took down one other sc http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Congrats to the winner.

Thanks for putting this together tuna!

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

Notes for next time: No directed randoms. Actually, I will clearmagic everyone and then add back the basic paths. That means, no random paths AT ALL.

And stock with some MR, ffs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

No spell research, I will just tell everyone to name the spells they want to use, and add them in in the file. Lot less hassle. Perhaps some limit on high-level spells to make it more combat-oriented.

Oh, and figured out that phoenix pyre was utterly suicidal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

BAH, I'm at work so I can't check to see how my horse fared. I turned him in feeling he didn't have much of a shot, but after I looked at the actual rules (Full Gembox? Random + Additional Paths?) I knew he wouldn't last long.

I hope he at least killed one other SC. Poor little fancy lad.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

The rules used ended up favoring Tartarians ALOT. The fact that Pretenders were walking in there with 6 picks (after buffing items) and the Tartarians were walking in with 13 was totally unrealistic.

Also, the lack of a "pretender" tag really overpowered Enslave and Hellbind. As such, the contest was more of a "who can find the loophole in the contest contest" than a "who can make the best SC contest". Still, kudos to the victor, you amply took advantage of the loopholes in that contest.

Even so, I think it might have turned out differently if more people had come in with good Mindless SCs. The only thing close was a gargoyle, and it wasn't even fully equipped.


Unfortunately, that's a bad idea. While it's less hassle, it's even more abusable. Imagine the effectiveness of the Slaver Squad if they could have shut off "Horror Mark" and the like. If SCs can input their perfect spell list as the only known spells, they won't do stupid crap when people outsmart them.

Things would go very differently, for example, if a Hellbinder had nothing else to cast and therefore ran forward if he was out of range...

Limiting spell lists to only requested spells is way too big of a powerup for spellcasters. And as we've seen, they really don't need powerups at all.

-Frank

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

Bah? You didn't include the Pretender Tag for the Pretender units? No wonder the charmers got as far as they did. My basis was that if you chose a Pretender Chassis it was a pretender. Part of the sacrifice of not being able to get into the HoF.

Maybe next competition, if you do one, you should define how you are going to go about it, instead of assumption. I definitely don't want to check out how my poor fancy lad did now. Not that he couldn't have been beat by other builds, because he could, only that the assumption was that as a Pretender he had the virtue of not being victim to charmables and sacrificed others to compensate. If not I more than likely would have chosen a super-high penetrating Charmer with outrageous paths that I get to choose on a Tartarian http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

Well, at least you didn't forget about the extra spellcasting encumbrance from a crystal heart that put Horalak at 117 fatigue once he finished buffing. That's one item that doesn't react well with phoenix pyre either.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

Deleted

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

Thank You for all the hard work, could you run another? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
(Edit - Statements removed)

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

I'll second that! Nice work Tuna it was a great idea and very cool.

Re: The Grand Anti-SC competition! - Results!
 

Wonder why I made those remarks.

The problem with spell research is that so much can go wrong in those 18 turns, I had to revert twice. The research part was by far the most work. Perhaps I should add a couple of low-level spells to everyone in addition to their requested ones?


Any new rule suggestions, and I'm all ears.