Re: Forum Changes
 

Removing the black line helped.
The backgrounds are mismatched on a number of pages though...

At least the backgrounds that are visible.
- Before the forum threads display, yes the background is the brown of the sidebar.
- This reply window is tan gray on the other hand, and the background seen after the thread titles load are similar shades of gray.

I'm not sure how to fix that except for a couple-pixel buffer on all of these forum pages.

----

It may just be me, but I think the sidebar is a little slimmer than before.

Sleek and efficient is good.

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The forum announcement text... it has made the forum control panel (with index/search/faq/etc) twice as tall as before.
I'm not sure why the text is splayed across four lines with a big announcements title, when two or three lines would do (at least on my screen), and as a bonus make it fit in the original sized frame.

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The "Order SE4 Gold" and similar links in other forums.
These should probably be moved to the sidebar, in the links section, instead of continuing to use the top space which is now being used more by other items.
Make the button gold coloured, or otherwise shiny to keep it obvious.

In order to keep the same bar for all of the pages, you could perhaps make a simple but effective "Buy This Game" button in the sidebar. As a gold button sitting among pink/gray buttons it will stand out when people are looking to find the store and jump directly to the game.

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The blue colour scheme in the sidebar boxes is prettier, but dosen't really match the forum's theme.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Exactly! That's why people are suggesting it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I agree with the impression, but it may just be an optical illusion because of the difference in color? I'm not really sure.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Did I miss something? Did you try out my background image? and Fyron didn't like it so now they are gone? Did anyone else see them in place? Or was it only up for a matter is minutes? But Really did I miss something? I know it's been about 3 hours since I last logged in here, but do things change that fast?

Richard I like how you have tightened up the press release section, I have no problems with this new format. FYI I'm viewing the forums at 1280x1024 and everything fits nicely on my screen. I think people will get used to it and eventually grow to like it. I remember this 'wave' of mixed feelings every time the forum underwent changes. In the end we all ended up liking the changes.

That said, why do I feel like I missed something? did someone get a screenshot? Or is Fyron seeing thing again?

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

We are a very fussy bunch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

David I don't believe your images were ever used.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Loaded up the site -- AAAaah! My eyes!!

Re: Forum Changes
 

The option to have it on the right is good.

See, the point is not to FORCE it on people. It is to have it available in case they want to use it.

A floater on the bottom might be good too.

Since we read from the top left, that is where the actual forum should be.
When we are looking for news or links, that's when we glance around the page to find it.
The main point of the forum is to discuss things and post about mods and tips and other interesting things. This attracts more customers to the place.

Having a set of links handy to point the new customers in the direction of the cash register is a good idea, but it should not be the main focus of the forum, which is to just be a forum and attract people.

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BTW, I think the background of the press boxes should defnitely be related to the actual thing being presented.

Then as soon as I see a mostly black one, with red in the middle, out of the corner of my eye, I'll know to jump on it and pre-order myself some SE5 goodness http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

If I see one with an RTS theme, and hate RTSs, I can ignore it.

A nice default background, like david's glass-boxed desert scene would be good for those that do not have an obvious topical choice.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Ok, I see the image now, I had to do a ctrl+F5 to force a cold refresh. I see what Fyron means about the blue now. Yellow text is a good contrasting color for placing over a blue background.

Anyway, right now the left press release frame is just a tad bit too narrow, the right side of the pic is being clipped.

just a quick observation, keep up the great work Richard, and remember to breathe in,.. out,.. in,.. out.. slowly and take all out 'fussing' with a big grain of salt. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

At the moment, the top-bar banner appears to link to random games. Since it appears to be 100% shrapnel stuff, why not cycle the news there...

Especially if you code things with a coloured border; new games could be green, game status changes (backorder, etc) could be blue. Major new mods (I see there are some for dom2) could be in yellow. Red could be for critical global news, such as the forum move, or an important staffing change.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Since you asked Combat Wombat, here you go.

You only need one filter this time, you can delete one of them if you have two.
URL Match = www.shrapnelcommunity.com
Byte Limit = 10000
Matching Expression:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>&lt;table * id="pr"&gt;**&lt;tr&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;*\n&lt;/td&gt;</pre><hr />

Re: Forum Changes
 

So you are going to post it in their forum how to block out their changes? Ever hear the term "escalation"? You will probably wish you had accepted the first effort. For that matter if everyone hadnt griped about the OT thing you might have avoided this. But go ahead and continue making it worse.

Cant wait to see what they do about the rule #5 violations filling the database just for a post count.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Hmmm not a bad suggestion. I thought at first they were trying to keep the same little squares they used on the first page to avoid having to make 2 such squares for each news piece. But since they are playing with backgrounds I guess not.

Re: Forum Changes
 

What? First effort? I only posted them because Combat Wombat asked for them. The only reason it broke before is because the filters were poorly made and the change in size of the sidebar messed them up. If shrapnel asks me to stop I will. Additionally, I will only post the filters if someone asks for them.

And what do you mean by the "OT thing"?

Re: Forum Changes
 

I agree that the banner sidebar would be less of a problem if it did not appear in the message threads. Once you have read the notices while viewing the topic list, that's enough. However, I also am a Proxomitron user and it took me about 1 minute to whip up an effective filter for myself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

It was suggested that maybe the wildly OT posts that created long flamewars should be in Shrapnel General which was made for it. Response along the line of "our little community" and "we come straight here and dont see other forums or the main pages". Response along the line of "that might not be a good thing to declare" and "in other forums that has led to" followed by a description of different things including what we are seeing now.

Re: Forum Changes
 

There are no flamewars here in the SE4 section of the forums, "despite" the ample quantity of OT threads.

I must admit I have never seen any serious flamewars as rumours have them. But ISTM that that would increase my perception of any flaming at all.

Re: Forum Changes
 

OK no flame wars. The "exubrant discussions on touchy subjects" which were different than the "helpful game support" of the forum.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Meh. Any change takes some getting used to. It works. It didn't break the forum view I usually use. I can run with it.

Re: Forum Changes
 

If it wasn't for those posts I wouldn't be involded in any shrapnel stuff, I would have never purchased starfury and would probaly not have purchased SE5 when it comes out.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Those were never the posts refered to. There was never an effort to kill all OT posts. Ones about PCs, or other games, or star wars, or start trek, or a hundred other "grey" subjects. It was only suggested that maybe the religious, or about the war, or other obviously meant to spark heated discussions would be better in the forum described as being for that purpose rather than the SEIV one.

But the same point. The "we never see those because we come straight here" was not a good response to make.

Re: Forum Changes
 

If they were meant to spark flamewars, they did a pretty bad job of it. Highly active, friendly debate as we see occasionally is a good thing.

But, it seems that you of all people, GP, have dragged this thread off topic!

-----

So, to bring it back, some of the points and suggestions made recently:
1) Using the top game-banner to show news, perhaps colour-coded by subject/category
2) Changing the backgrounds on the news items for improved contrast and topic matching.
3) Turning the "Order &lt;game related to forum&gt;" link at the top into a special button on the sidebar.
4) Options for location of sidebar, or hiding it.
5) Fixing the black border line and the lack of space between it and the actual forum text.
6) If the "not-an-ad" bars are too intrusive, they will simply be blocked, and there is no way to force them to be shown except on a very temporary basis.

Re: Forum Changes
 

1) Yes, I think a much more effective way to do the very top of the page is have the new oval Forums icon on the left, ad banner in the middle, and some sort of iframe to load a random news item from the past X days (perhaps summary/link of blog posting?) I just can't seem to get myself to like the eagle logo, though.

2) The changing-of-news-item backgrounds is a good idea as well. Adds a bit more variety as well, and helps people zoom in on items of special interest (read: SEV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

3) A golden "Buy This Game" button right below the Support button would fit nicely.

4) This, I think, is very much needed. On my 1280x1024 screen, the beginning of text for the forum pages almost begins in the center of the screen (!) This is a Bad Thing (TM). Then I tried scaling down to 800x600 (people do still use that resolution), and the result was squished everything, and you need to scroll all the way over in some threads (mainly, this one) to even see all the text. Then you can't even see the poster or the sidebar when reading the forum, and that is a Very Bad Thing (TM).

Two ways to resolve the problem are:
A) keep press release sidebar on the forum and topic listings only, and remove from the thread pages (ie, where messages are).
B) move the bar to the right side, or allow the option for users to move the bar to the right. Perhaps keep it defaulted to the right, requiring users to register to change it.

5) Add padding/cellpadding to the table cell the main part of the forum is held in, to prevent the border-merging. Also, it looks like there's supposed to be a drop-shadow on the PR image backgrounds, but it's cut off...

6) As soon as I get some time, I'll be looking for this Proximitron program. I always thought it was a firewall, not a way to edit out "undesirable" HTML.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Let me be frank based on some recent commentary. OT posts are always welcome in the SE:IV community. That has always been and always will be the policy of Shrapnel Games on the matter and I thought we had that issue settled.

The sidebars were added for the reasons I specifically stated and no other. They were no form of punishment.

Feel free to block that portion of the site with any 3rd party tool if you would like. Also feel free to post directions on how to do that. Again no big deal.

If you have questions about the official Shrapnel policy on these things feel free to PM any of the current staff members of Shrapnel Games.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Yikes...
They're even there in the PM section of the forum!

The sidebars really should be limited to the top few levels of the forum... when you're doing something specific, like PMing or replying to a message, they are totally unnessesary and just get in the way.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Thank You, This should clear up any confusion.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Now that they have backgrounds in them they're even more distracting. I may just have to start using Proxo again.

Edit:...yeah. I think I will. Thank you, Shrap.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Thank you, Richard. I wish more people would have that attitude. I too, think that the sidebar would be fine on the topic and category level, but it is just wasted space in the threads and other areas.

Its not a firewall at all. Its an ad-blocker and HTML filter.
Proxomitron

Re: Forum Changes
 

Ah, readability. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Thanks Covert. Took me a bit to figure out why it wasn't working..I forgot to turn the new filter on. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif A bit of a resource hog, but not too bad.

EDIT: of course its also making the top of the area (user controls, banner, announcments..) disappear as well. Oops. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

EDIT2: speaking of bugs, even with a non-proxied Firefox, the edit window now has a non-functional button in between "change this post" and "delete this post".

Re: Forum Changes
 

Yup, noticed that about Covert's filter too. I turned off all other filters, just to make sure.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Richard:
Are there plans to make the press releases more legible? It is not that it is a bad image, it is just really hard to read the text on top of it.

That used to be the Spellcheck button. I can confirm that it is now bugged in Firefox.

Gandalf Parker, please do not post anything if all you are going to do is try to incite flames. Those issues have long since been resolved and you dragging them up does nothing productive. Thank you.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Is you screen really dark or something? they are perfecly readable on my laptop which is half as bright as normal on battery power.

Re: Forum Changes
 

No... They are IMO poor choices of color combinations. I can read them, but it is annoying to do so. Anyone with poor eyesight isn't going to be able to read them.

Re: Forum Changes
 

The stuff at the top of the page? the Main Index, Who's Online, and Search stuff? I can see all of that just fine. Don't know what causing it to disappear on your end.

Wait, I see what's wrong. I told you guys to set the byte limit to 10000 just in case, but I had it on 7000. If you set it to 7000 they show up.

EDIT: Fixed the filter so that will only find what is is supposed to even if the byte limit is higher:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>&lt;table width="100%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" align="center" id="pr"&gt;**&lt;tr&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;*\n&lt;/td&gt;</pre><hr />

EDIT2: Better one:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>&lt;table \w \w \w \w id="pr"&gt;*&lt;tr&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;?\n&lt;/td&gt;</pre><hr />

Re: Forum Changes
 

Methinks the Shrapnel crew lives in some sort of temporal anomaly... "Space Empires IV Gold Off Backorder!" is what one of the side ads say.

And I don't really like the new banners, I preferred David's desert with the transparent hand grenade.

Re: Forum Changes
 

That just means SEIV was on backorder a while ago, and thus was not available. Now that it is no longer on backorder, SEIV is available for purchase once more.

Re: Forum Changes
 

Richard's signature is still in a temporal anomaly, however. Starfury is apparently still coming soon! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Ack! Where did the infinitely useful "Mark All Read" link in the control panel thingie at the top of the main forum view go? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif If the forum announcements were moved to a cell above the "Welcome" and CP cells, it wouldn't have to squish the CP links to a small area and force some of them to that 3rd line that was there before...

Re: Forum Changes
 

I've been fiddling with the Proxomitron some more and managed to make it remove the sidebar on every page, except the thread lists and the main category lists. This is what everyone has been suggesting be done with it.

URL Match:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>www.shrapnelcommunity.com/threads/(^ubbthreads.php|postlist.php)</pre><hr />

Byte Limit &gt;= 7000 at least

Matching Expresion:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>&lt;table \w \w \w \w id="pr"&gt;*&lt;tr&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;&lt;/table&gt;?\n&lt;/td&gt;</pre><hr />

Re: Forum Changes
 

What a surprise. Annoying surprise I shall say. Because text in the tread is aligned to the center for me. I bet it's some sort of incompatibility with Opera browser, but it helps a little.
Could owners look at it and possibly fix it?

info: opera 7.60pre
attached: screenshot of Opera window

Re: Forum Changes
 

Yet another piece of background art, sorry if I'm being anoying, but It's what I do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...nelAd_Bkg3.gif

Is this any better?

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

And in case you're wondering what it would look like with text on it..

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...elAd_Bkg3a.gif

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

Actually, I kinda like the new look

Especially now the bloody side news stays up top instead of spreading out down the side

Edit: Oh, since you are changing things around, you might want to consider altering the colors a little to give it a even fresher look

Re: Forum Changes
 

Since the press releases and links now float to the top. How about putting a collapse sidebar button in the upper right corner of the side bar?

I'd be willing to make the extra mouse click to get rid of the damn thing each time I visit. And, if I really did need the links, I'd only have to click on the same button to expand the side bar.
--
TAZ

Re: Forum Changes
 

That background would be good for forum announcements.

What about one with a gear/hammer theme for the new mods press boxes?

Re: Forum Changes
 

You mean something like this?..

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...nelAd_Bkg4.gif

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

Frankly I' surprised they haven't used your pic already David...

and why is it taking so long until we get another SEV screen? Nothing personal, but I would like to see some GUI, even if it is only a pre-beta GUI and it's not certain if it will be used. Pretty please?

Re: Forum Changes
 

I prefer wrenches and gears for mod-type graphics, as it's more about fine tuning and tweaking than smashing which is what a hammer says to me!

Re: Forum Changes
 

SE V is a top secret project! The very fact that YOU know about it is a serious breech in security!

Re: Forum Changes
 

And the Fact that you know it is a serious breach of security and it is a Top Secret Project means that you are on the inside of the SEV project, and are therefore a target for all rabid SEIV Fans who eagerly await news http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Forum Changes
 

Don't you be making me have to call the Malfador Secret Police on you!

RICHARD! Please move the adds from the left to the right of the screen. PLEASE!

Re: Forum Changes
 

Very NICE.