Originally Posted by Imperious_Leader (Post 337513)

Good morning everyone I hope you all slept well and are ready to go at it again....I know I am http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Phoenix-D You are quite correct when you say that it would not still be 212F by the time I drank it......but it would be when I poured it and if I were to spill it on myself it would be more serious than coffee at a mere 180F since numerous people drink instant coffee at home it is not unreasonable to expect some coffee to be very hot.Upon some thought I have realized that the only place I have ever burned my toung with coffee is at home so mine is definatly hotter than McDonaslds.

As to your second point about the NORMAL car versus the hot rod I'm afraid that in your on words you have answered your own arguement......the motor vehical industry is highly regulated if I am buying a car from you I have a reasonable expectation of how it will preform ie that it will be a NORMAL car , there is an accepted norm that I can judge it against.....you would be liable...lol and yes I would sue you.There is no accepted norm for coffee or rather since McDonalds sells so much of the stuff I might well argue that they have set the norm.

You say that the fact that the coffee was hot made it worse well yes but what if there coffee was 169F and everyone elses was 150F 169 is less than 180 but more that 150F would you still argue that McDonalds coffee was too hot?

Sivran you are quite right the differance between 180 and 212 is 32 not 22.You say that spilling coffee on yourself that is not such a dangerous temperature is not a big deal I can easily argue that spilling a glass of water on myself is not as dangerous as spilling a cup of coffee that is 158F but what does that have to do with the price of coffee beans nothing it is not a question of how hot the coffee was but her negligance in spilling it .Lets say the coffee is a mild 158F which will cause a burn in what was it 60 sec or something....now I have my fresh McDonalds coffee driving down the freeway at 110 kmh and I spill the coffee on my well you know...I must decelerate and pull off the road to deal with the problem in the time it takes me to change lanes come to a full stop and pull the jeans off I have been burned by your much safer temperature .They knew I might be driving and would not nessarialy be able to pull over right away are they not still to blame and must they now lower the temperature again?

Fyron I realized that your razor blade coment was tounge in cheek however even your second example does not hold up cars with sharp edges would not pass the accepted norm test...the toy industry also has rules and regulations you would have a reasonable expectation that McDonalds would not give children toys which fall beneath the accepted norm....a norm which actually exists.Since there is no norm for coffee you have no such expectations but rather you know its hot and you shouldn't spill it.And if you have ever had McDonalds coffee you know its very hot which really does or atleast should set a norm for what you expect from their coffee.

The exact temperature is not the issue....how can you argue that the coffee was dangerously hot and say that the exact temperature was not the issue. The only to issues are either her negligance in spilling the coffee or McDonalds negligence in having coffee that is"TOO HOT" since you are arguing that it was not her negligance the only issue that remains is the temp of the coffee.....arguing that the temp of the coffee is not the issue is my position as I hold her compleatly responsible.
You said
"Yes, spilling coffee on yourself is stupid. Spilling hot coffee on yourself is quite stupid. However, it is not unreasonable to expect to not need to be hospitalized as a result. With coffee as hot as it was, there was nothing at all she could do. The damage was done extremely rapidly. If McDonald's had acted sooner to remedy the dangerous product, which they knew full well to be dangerous, there would not have been a law suit (from this lady, at any rate). But they did not. They were negligent."
How can you concider it to unreasonable to expect to be hospitilized by spilling very hot coffee on yourself?
The tests of McDonalds coffee after the insident aswell as there operating manual amply demonstrated that McDonalds coffee was and always had been very hot it would be very reasonable to expect to be seriously burned by it if you did not show proper caution.And again I will point out that their coffee is signifagantly cooler than the coffee that I make at home....I use an electric kettle ( Stainless Steel Cordless Electric Kettle ) if I spill the water which is boiling on myself would the company that made it be liable.....should they make it heat to some safer temp?If your response is that I would know how hot boiling water is ....well maybe I did back in school but certainly not now and even if I did remember what the temperature of boiling water was how many sec at what temp causes what deg burn that I certainly did not know....what I did know was common sense hot is hot don't pour water from kettle on self.

For the record the coffee was between her legs....prehapes it was I don't recall from the article but if it was between her knees and spilled on her crotch she must have really short legs....hmmm maybe its just that I have long legs.

That Sivran and agreeing obviously made me wrong was just a joke I realized....by 3am I was starting to get pretty silly myself.

Practice makes perfect ....I'm working on it.



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The whole question boils[sorry for the repeated use of puns]down to wheather or not it is reasonable to expect to recieve third degree burns from a cup of coffee I say yes you say no.