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Sounds like bad news to me. I hope I'm wrong.

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The beta slots are given out by Aaron himself.
I'm one of the contributors to the SE5 copy prizes, and this dosen't change that.

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All of the promised swag for the tourney was worked out between Tesco and Malfador. The publisher doesn't usually get involved in that stuff unless it's something they are setting up themselves, which Shrapnel was not in this case. It shouldn't have any affect at all.

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Cool, not that I dont have a major personal interest in the outcome of the Atull game....

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Well, the last I heard the 'filing for bankruptcy protection' was about a year ago, since December the company has shown positive cash-flow and are slowly getting back above ground.

They have struck a deal for more online outlets for their games but this is in addition to their retail stuff.

I sure wish people would tell the whole story and not these half-facts that serve no purpose other than to generate worries in the fans.

Aaron is the one funding the development of SE5 and he is in 100% control of the quallity and schedule for SE5. Beta slots and prizes for the PBW tournament are not affected by this news in the least.

Nuf said, Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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They did? The galciv website still has "Published by Strategy First" on it.

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Well your welcome to your opinion but I think CIV3 and GalCiv were great. Galciv has been handled well by Strategy First and so will SE:V. Well I can hope.

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Those networks might have been setup after SEIV was released. There was definitely a lot of "I can't get the game!" complaining.

One of these is not like the other! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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Is it just me, or are some posts in this thread being deleted http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

I'm positive I just read a post at the top of the thread by Geo I think, and now it's gone!

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OMG renegade you are right fyrons post is gone and geos post is gone!

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Oh fyron and geo deleted their own posts. Oh well so much for having something to be excited about.

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There is no post!

Back to your regularly scheduled shocking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

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Nobody get all paranoid now. It was just a slight misunderstanding. Fyron and I got it straightened out and decided the best thing was to just remove the posts rather than add additional confusion.

Nothing to see here citizens, move along. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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Ouch. Correct. I meant to say that the same sales will NOT give the same profit. Due to the extra money layout for that marketing model.

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That is my biggest concern, after the discussion on IRC today settled most of the other things.

I'd like to send Aaron a fistfull of bucks directly, just to make sure he gets mine.
Perhaps some sort of limited-edition signed CD thing for us rabid fans http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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Wow. Some interesting reading today. We truly appreciate the show of support for Shrapnel Games and Malfador Machinations. Our wish is for continued success for both companies.

I see some comments being thrown around that I'd like to expand upon.

Strategy First filed for Chapter 11 protection from bankruptcy on August 18, 2004, with their largest debt being a reported $1.7 million USD owed to game developers around the world. Yes, this may be cause for concern as to what kind of support will exist for their future releases with stories like this being publicised:
Ideal Games Explanation for No Patches

Something like this may or may not be an issue in the future if the proposed buyout by Silverstar Holdings meets the conditions set by the Montreal bankruptcy courts.
Silverstar Holdings Aquistion of Strategy First

Our games are now carried by retail outlets in over ten countries (see my blog of March 7). It's true that when we released Space Empires IV five years ago our network was not as large. Since then we have been focused on expanding that market. We also restructured our shipping rates some time ago so that shipping a single game to most international destinations via USPS Global Priority Mail is $5.00 USD.

There are folks who will always complain about not being able to find a game. Heck, there's a thread on the Strategy First forums right now about customers not finding their newest release of Disciples II Gold in stores. No publisher can please everyone. The best we can do is to listen to what is being said and take action to make corrections when we can. It's the response to complaints that will make or break any company.

David is correct about the prizes for the PBW tournament not being affected. The tourney was conceived and implemented by Malfador. Shrapnel donated a small prize even knowing we would not be publishing SEV.

Thanks for allowing me to hopefully straighten out some of the misconceptions.

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If he's funding it 100% then everybody should just go have a beer and chill. SEV is in good hands. And if it's a stinker, Aaron has no one to blame but himself.

Keep making good games, Shrapnel.

And something needs to be said about these forums. They're great. People are cool, level headed, and don't throw epithets and ridicule where it isn't due. I like having the freedom to express myself without the fear of flaming... but that leads me to a simple point.

Forums devolve into a flaming mess when people insist on not IGNORING the flames. Let em go, and forums clean up quick. This is not a unique forum when it comes to coolness. It's just extra special because we're all science fiction loving dorks with hearts of gold and hours of free time.

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I hope my heart isn't made out of gold. I'd die!

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Well guys it’s been an amazing journey thus far and I have enjoyed it immensely. Shrapnel Games has earned my loyalty through superior games and fanatical customer support. I hate to see SE V going away, but I trust in life that all things change and that sometimes change hurts.

I look forward to many more years as a shrapnel games customer as they release more games and continue to provide excellent customer service.

As for Strategy First, well, they are not Shrapnel Games so I don't expect the same quality of customer service that I have seen with Shrapnel. As for the SE V forum, well that is a concern, but hopefully by then SE.net will be up and running stable.

I am optimistic about space empires future, as I am sure many of you are. However be it store shelf or internet sales, I believe that in the long hall, five to ten years down the road, many of us will look back at the time we have spent here, on the Space Empires IV forum, and miss it. Although SE V is not going to be a shrapnel product, perhaps SE VI will be. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Remember SE V is not the end of SE IV so hopefully this forum will continue to have a healthy and long life.

Shrapnel Games has earned my loyalty and I hope the same is true for many of you. Kodos to Shrapnel Games for being more than just a place that sells games.

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Oh yes, one last thing, Gal Civ is a perfect example of a success story. Never forget that. It flurished because MOO3 failed so horribly. SE IV, albeit never confirmed, gained many sales and picked up a huge chunk of the market as a result of the MOO3 disaster.

Many of us know and trust Shrapnel Games while not really knowning Strategy First. Given the news about their financial situation only flames our concerns, but trust in Aaron, this is his game, and he will do what is right to protect it.

I have faith that SE V will sell well, slowly but well, as did Gal Civ. And please ponder this, by extention, if SE V does well, or even just moderately well, so will SE IV. That means, at least until shrapnels inventory is depleted, more sales for them. With the support of this forum, and the huge resevor of information contained here, this place is a fricking gold mine, an information gold mine that is.

The more people who visit shrapnel games, the more likely sales they will see for their other products as well. Or at least that is what I hope will happen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So this change of the gaurd, albeit a very painful one, might just work out well for all three companies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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What concerns me is that SE5 will dilute the SE4 elite community (by which I use the connotation, few). As we are at the moment we have a stable community which is friendly and welcoming. I am shocked to think that if SE5 is more widespread we shall be innundated with people with no respect for those established as our communities leaders, such as Atrocities, Geoschmo, or Fyron etc, .People who will insult and disregard others. Imagine the day some leet speaker comes up with (and please excuse my unfamiliar attempt at lowering my vocabulary)

Hey doods, look at mi orsom mod.

I value the fact that to my knowledge Intel has not be sullied by flamewars or baiting. I regularly visit another forum and it is almost as good except for the occasional baiting or insults that are instantly banned by the moderators. Naturally we must be willing to accept converts to the cause but I can't help but be worried that the quality of our community will descend.

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Randallw I doubt it will ever get that bad. SE V, like IV, are more or less the kind of games that the "hey dood" type avoid.

I know one thing, I am going to buy a few more copies of SEIV for posterities sake. That and so I can sell them on ebay for $100.00 each in a few years. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

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Whoah..... leave this thread alone for just one night and you immediately get over 30 replies! Wow!

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Wow, interesting news. Curious that there's so little information on Malfador's site.

And hey, everyone who wants to thank Shrapnel, buy Dom3 when it comes out! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

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I take back those strong words in my previous post. I guess we just don't like change. It was a knee jerk reaction. David has reassured me that Aaron still is in 100% control of the game and everything will be alright. I hope he's right.

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Well... I actually don't find it too much shocking. I'm starting to wonder if I'm weird http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Anyway, I started playing SE III, and the change from shareware to internet publishing (or whatever its name is) was a big one, IMO a lot more relevant than the change from internet-only to retail.

First and foremost, SE IMO isn't really a niche game (you'll disagree, I know). It was developed (and sold) as a niche game (and as shareware until 2000!), though - there isn't anything wrong with it, but this shouldn't lead us to presume that it can't go well on the wider market just because it's indie (or shareware!).
Actually, many games published by Shrapnel aren't niche games - or at least their niche is wider than the one of other games; Austerlitz: NGV wasn't as "nichy" as BCT, for example. IIRC SEIV has been Shrapnel's best seller by far (really, really far, just check the number of posts in the forum): I suppose this means that it has a wider appeal than other titles.

Consider the changes between SEIII and SEIV: the concept is the same, but while SEIII was developed as shareware, SEIV was a commercial game. SEIV graphics are obsolete (even in their format: uncompressed BMPs!), but they are still much better than those of SEIII. SEIV's interface is needlessly complex, but I found the one in SEIII so annoying to even bother learning it (and quit playing even if I thought SEIII was a great game). And so on. Basically, SE III and IV are the same game, with a different development; there are still a lot of margins for improvements in SEV.


Please note that I live in Europe, so I might not fully understand what could be the actual consequences of the publisher change. I think the PC game market is very different here (or at least, I had difficulties understanding large parts of Shrapnel's blog entries on the PC game market status). BTW, I had both SEIV and SEIV Gold shipped from the US by courier. I think I spent more for the courier than for the game.
Now, what could be the consequences of being published by SF? I suppose you could still buy it online (although not from the publisher, I think), and still have a community and some sort of support (from Malfador at the very least). What else?

"Watering down the game" to increase its appeal to hordes of mindless frothing teenagers isn't a consequence IMO, as publishers don't write game code. They can ask the developers to do some changes, but I suppose Aaron knew this when he (willingly) chose his publisher, and thus anticipated the possibility of any such changes - the game is still his own, not SF's. Should he self-destroy his game in an attempt to gain popularity, it would be his fault...
Also, even if the game sets the new world record for worst sellers in history I don't think Aaron would be jailed for it, so I suppose he'd still be able to develop SEVI. By the way, the hordes of mindless whining kids won't be a problem unless the game has some success, so the two fears are mutually exclusive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Last but not least, I wished to thank Shrapnel for publishing SE IV. A shareware SEIV wouldn't have been the same thing. I'll be back (for Dominions III). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

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That is just plain classy! Hell, most companies would already have shut the game's forum down. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Thank you Shrapnel for all the support of this community over the years. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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The reason SEIV uses bmps is for modding purposes (or so I believe). The Gold Manual even contained a Modding Guide, and there were some much-used mods on the Gold CD.

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I'm not so worried anymore after speaking with David. Aaron is in 100% control and since he's put in all his own money for its development, there's not much the "publisher" can force on him in regards to changes etc.

I still feel for Shrapnel though - so perhaps I'll buy Salvo... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

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Space Empires needs to use .jpg files. Would reduce the size of mods and the game a lot, and allow more stuff to fit in. Imagine... THOUSANDS of system pictures! TENS OF THOUSANDS of component pictures!!!

Edit: Maybe he could also build a mod editor that creates compressed mod files, instead of the old text files that waste so much space. That way, we can utilize all those tens of thousands of component pictures http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

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I have quite a few of the hey dood types of friends....their not to bad after you get used to them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.....anyway a couple were over the other night , no worries about hordes of them taking up the game.They couldn't belive that I would waste a hour visiting 15 planets setting up construction ques and redesigning a destroyer......and one of them compared the graphics to pong....lol I was surprised he knew what pong was.You'd have to make into a totaly different game before they'd be interested at all.So for now no worries.......dudes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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You know folks, I really hate to have to come in here and post like this; we sometimes hesitate to post as we have always felt that our forums are for the fans. But we do still have a business to run and it is misinformation like this that can truly affect our business.

All the above quote actually says is that the Space Empires IV crowd is vocal and the game has enjoyed longevity - which, I believe we all knew http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif. We wish we could get the wargamers to be this vocal here, but they have a vast forum network that extends beyond the Intel Forums. The reality though is that SEIV was not our 'best selling game by far'. It however has been in our top 3 sellers since its release over 5 years ago. In 2004 it was beat out by Dominions II, which was our top seller, and, in fact, SEIV came in 4th place for the year.

The other myth I want to dispell is that somehow retail is going to 'get the name out' in a bigger way than we have. Although it could be true for SEV (who knows at this point?), I would say that we have done an excellent job of making the public aware of SEIV. With over 1 million demo downloads (and it could be much, much more than this, as I stopped following the numbers a couple of years ago), I would say the public is quite aware of SEIV.

If SEV is a major success at retail, it would be due in no small part to our efforts with SEIV (and I think that is what personally hurts me most with Aaron's defection). The reality is that Strategy First does not compete well at retail. How can they compete marketing wise with companies the like of EA and Ubisoft? And as you all know, to excel at retail you need the masses. The game must sell to more than the hardcore strategy fan to do the numbers you need to succeed. This takes informing the masses, and Strategy First doesn't have that kind of money.

I believe I know why Aaron went with Strategy First, based on our convesations of last year. My understanding is his decision was based on the sales of Galactic Civ, a true expception to the niche market rule (name another niche market game in the last 6 years that has done anywhere near that well). If I am not mistaken GC sold over 100,000 units at retail, but this was not due to Strategy First's market penetration, but to Brad Wardell's name and standing in this industry. Search for GC on any search engine, and you come up with not Strategy First entries, but Brad Wardell entries. Now, do a search for SEIV and see who comes up?

In closing, just remember that a defection of a popular developer like Malfador will stir up this industry, and it is our job to make sure that it is put in perspective. Please don't assimilate information that just isn't true. It makes our job much harder.

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Update on the Tourny Prizes. They will not be affected... Our goal is still the same. Thank Aaron for SEIV and support SEV. This does not change. SJ and I are still buying the copies of SEV out of our pocket. That does not change. Nor does the other prizes.

And to toot my own horn.... Annette it was I who came up with the idea for the tourney http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif My thankyou to everyone. I get to toot it very little so toot toot ! Narf help me out here...

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I stand corrected, Tesco. Thanks for the clarification. My intention was to dispell any perception that the tourney was sponsored by Shrapnel and to clarify it's not affected by this announcement in any way. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

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I am still suprised that there is no response from Malfador. Aaron...?

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Wow. Thats a kicker. But for all the back and forth "he said, she said" it seems to me the real questions don't have answers:

1. Will SEV be dumbed down for a broader market?
2. What is its current PROJECTED release date?

As much as I happen to think Shrapnel games is cool (A forum for a game they don't sell?? Who DOES that??) and I like the group of fans here, the publisher won't really affect my enjoyment of the game, the cost is irrelevant (charge $100 for all I care, if the game has the draw of SEIV I'll get 1000 hours out of it. How many games are $.10 per hour?) and its clear that Aaron will support it long after it comes out.

If its dumbed down to appeal to twitch gamers I'll stop following it entirely.

If this change means its not coming out till 2006, I'll stop following it (but I'll keep an eye out in 06...).

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The quick and to the point answers are..

1) No!
2) The Beta starts in April. (release is always pending the speed and success of the Beta)

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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This is my last post in this tread.

But I am going to say this.

Some people here are starting to sound like the SEIII crowd when seiv was coming out.

F.U.D. is not the way to go about this. Enjoy what was and what will come down the road. If its not your ride then get off and catch on to something else. No reason at all to be bitter here. As Geo would say. Dude Chill.

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Actually David, I now fear, that with Aaron going to SF, what happens to every other game on the market will happen to SEV
Aaron is pushed into releasing before its ready

How many publishers have we seen do that? about 90% of games today are released well before they're ready

I hope this won't be the case and Aaron has full control of this aspect

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For the record, I didn't coin the phrase, but it is appropriate in this situation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

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I would say it is fear.

Beta still needs to happen. So that release date has not been set yet. Assume Aaron has full control still.

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Then...
Every time Tesco thinks he's out, we pull him back in. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

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Ah, a continues Shrapnel aficionado.....

So Cliche

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Greetings to the Space Empires IV fans!
------------------------------------------

Shocking! No, not so shocking. We love the community here at Shrapnel and have had a great time working with Shrapnel Games over the last 4 years. We just need to try and see if there's a bigger audience for the Space Empires series out there. This will mean getting the game into retail, and releasing specific language versions for different countries.

And don't worry about the SE5 development. Its completely in our hands and we have total control. Its being made much the same way that SE4 was. Our support for the game will be the same as always regardless of the publisher. We'll make patches as long they're needed!

The beta test for Space Empires V will start next month, and the first screen shots will be posted in April. We want to thank everyone for the terrific suggestions and support! We couldn't do it without you.

Aaron

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Aaron!

Thanks for the reassuring words. I'll be sure to buy SEV ASAP, be it a Shrapnel release or S1st. Keep up the good work!

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Well, you could, but who would buy the game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Good luck in your venture. I hope things work out the way you hope they do.

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Thats highly unfortunate. I know of Brad Wardell and GalCiv for many MANY years. Any conversation in AI newsgroups brought him and the game to mention as a prime example of game AI. I was always peeved that it was an OS/2 game making use of the multi-tasking in that OS. When I heard that BW was jumping on WinXP as possibly finally being able to run the game properly I rushed to pre-order it. (unfortunately so far Im not thrilled with the porting of it)

From what I see in newsgroups I think that a definate sizeable chunk of GalCiv sales was due to it showing up on shelves but it was because of old-timers like me seeing it and saying "is that the GalCiv I kept hearing about and could never run". There was a ready-made market if you could catch the eye of the people who normaly dont glance at the games anymore. Im not sure if there is much of a "lost gamers" market with fond memories of SEIII and SEIV to be snagged by SEV. There probably is but Im not sure that they cant mostly still be reached by newsgroups and game-mag reviews. Maybe there are, time will tell.

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Back again.

Tim to quote you
I do not quite follow this... So for 3 years it sold away and then in year 4 D2 took over for year sales and then to date this year 4th place... So does this mean it is only the best selling game by a little then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif
No disrespect. Just trying to understand the paragraph.

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Actually, SE IV was published before it was ready. I don't think the game was complete until the Gold edition. And that was only Aaron and Richard making the decisions (I didn't hear anything about Tim Brooks leaning on them if he did... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ) This seems to be a general problem with software, not just games. Proper development takes LOTS of testing, and that means lots of time. Very few people, or companies, are financially secure enough to finish the development of a major software project in one go. I fully expect that SE V will be incomplete in some major ways when first release. If I don't get in on the beta team and get a 'free' copy I'll probably wait till SE V Gold to buy it.

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Sorry tesco, what I meant is that on our 'all time' top sellers list, SEIV is in the top 3, not our "best seller by far". Last year, 2004, Dominions II was our number one seller and SEIV was 4th.

This is not meant to discount SEIV in any way, we are proud to call it a best selling Shrapnel game, it just shows how much our fan base has grown since we started in business. Heck our new releases now do in a month what it took SEIV several months to do back in 2000, when it was first released.