Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

I need to go to work and then I am in a play. So, it won't be until fairly late before I upload a pretender. Sorry for any delay.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Hehe i wonder how many turns i survive this time. At least it can only get better than last time i guess http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Hey yah! What was the secret weapon you used in the last game, Jurri, that knocked poor Boron out so quickly?

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Arco pretender uploaded?

Check! Good to go.

Roger that.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

The secret weapon was an immortal Dracolich, which is illegal in this game -just because-.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Hmm, that just might, possibly, be be my fault. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Still, I don't see how it is much worse than the VQ, seeing as Jotun has trouble really pushing dominion in the early game.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

My man pretender is in. Sorry bout the delay. Agonizing over magic and scales took forever.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Just take dominion 10 for the Dracolich and you're set http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Don't ask how much it costs to raise dominion from 1 to 10, though...

I described my reasoning for it to Alneyan a bit more in detail but I seem to have lost it... Maybe a good thing, here's the crux: The dragons in the mod are too powerful with their AOE attack, and two regular attacks! Take an S5 Dracolich (=S3 in dragon form) and you have on turn 1 a luck-casting monstrosity (Utgård, remember) that can't be stopped. Then later it gets such nasties as astral weapon and body ethereal and teleport, making it really a lean mean killing machine. No need for equipment or anything, just lob it in the right direction... VQ can't hold a candle to it, by far, costing more for less.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

VQs get all of their magic paths, though, and life-drain. And integral regen and ethereality. And they can take the whole set of equipment, including Charcoal Shields, which are probably more effective than Wing Buffet. The best VQ-killer (dust to dust) does not work against air-enabled VQs, because Mirror Image is bugged and negates AOE spells.

Don't discount them just yet... I've never seen a Zen-modded Dracolich in action, but anything stronger than the VQ I did see would be very scary indeed.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Here's your chance! (I hope Chris and Jeff don't mind.) I seem to still have the last turn of the latest game... The Draco frags 3 bane lords two of which have anti-undead gear at Resting Heights, all the while being pestered by imps: no mean feat! I'd say strength 39 armor negating AOE attack is pretty sweet, even when compared to a VQ. And 400+ hps don't hurt either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The password is 'eero'

The VQ needs a lot of research and equipment and costs like all hell. Once you go the equipment-route you're better off with a cheaper chassis that preferably doesn't have the vulnerabilities either, IMO. Immortality is best when it can be used with gusto: lobbed at enemies and hoping that the dude causes at least some damage! If you need to forge 50 gems worth of equipment every time your SC bites the dust it tends to limit it's effectiveness.

Don't get me wrong, a VQ with enough magic is really, really sweet, but point-for-point it is nowhere near Zen-modded Dracolich, in my opinion. The Draco I used had dominion 10; order, sloth, cold 3; misfortune, magic 2; death 1. You can't get even close with a VQ of the same destructive capacity.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Hmm ... seems everybody has uploaded. Time to press the button, right?

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

I dont understand why your opponents bothered with Bane Lords? A handful of shamans casting Magic Duel will kill the Carrion Dragon regardless of hp, conditions, etc.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Don't forget the Dracolich is firstly immortal, so it will still inflict losses for free even if it only kills a couple of shamans before dying. Secondly it's S5 in Bog Mummy form, so once a dueling squad appears it just needs to teleport on top of them with a helmet and a pearl to duel 'em to death the following turn. That is to say, it boils down to tactics, with the immortal guy having the option of trying as many times as it takes and having the mobility advantage, to boot. So unless you have cheap national astral mages, no, I don't think magic duel is the answer.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Ah, immortality, yeah I forgot about that.

BTW, didnt they point out in a recent thread that boosters and pearls have no effect on magic duel outcomes?

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Hehe, the immortal part was why it was being compared to the VQ in the first place... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And of course you're right, good ol' Alneyan did indeed test the thing and most stuff apparently doesn't have an effect.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif Well, GEEEZ, Jurri. STOP KEEPING US IN SUSPENSE!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/PointRight.gif[/img] Tell us how YOU would defeat the Dracolich!

... or do you have no idea!?! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

YES! PUSH - THE - BUTTON!!!

[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Clock.gif[/img] -4- [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Dagger.gif[/img]

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Hey, we are on the move already! Better do your turns quick before the Dracolich comes and eats you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

About how to defeat it, well, that depends on the nation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif But you knew I was gonna say that, didn't ya? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif I guess the convenient way to dispose of it would be dominion pushing. If it comes out of it's dominion then kill it and the problem is solved, if not just take the provinces one at a time once they are out of his dominion. Of course this assumes that you are capable of pushing dominion, which certainly would be hard at least against the build and strategy I used.

Another option is to rush the capital with all you've got and hope it's enough. It might well be if you for example have your own pretender capable of fragging the Draco. (For example a high-fire Moloch with herald lances http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif) Risky business.

Baically you need some sort of an edge over the nation you're facing, be it in research, gem income, armies or just better tactics or more friends. This holds true for all encounters, not just the Dracolich, right? It is definitely a very powerful option for Jotunheim, but I don't think it's unbeatable, since nothing is. (Yah, before you say it, Norfleet is beatable by someone using even more cheats, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif) It may very well be too good for its cost, though, at least I think so. I didn't mean to hide my opinion the matter... And, frankly, I don't think I'm any more capable of beating the Draco than any of ya. In fact you guys have more experience in fighting it than I http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Anyway, this game the Draco won't be fragging anyone so please don't gang up on me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Well, as someone who has lost games when playing Dracolichs, and as the person who lobbied Zen for making them immortal in the first place, I have a bit different perspective. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
I don't know if you were using Zen's scales or not, but if so, once you spend 125 on the chassis, 100s of points on dominion, and 100s more on getting astral to a level where a duel is not super easy to lose, your income is starting to look really bad. Considering that supply is big issue for Jotuns, death is a problem, as is sloth if you want to use their great national troops. Magic you don't want less than 3, and you will not want to trash both order and luck. So, it seems to me, you will be paying for the power you get.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

my first turn is in!

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

It's not anywhere near as expensive as it should be, Quantum. the Dracolich is way overpowered.

In the battle I faught with Jurri, if it was a VQ, there would have been no problem and I wouldn't have taken many losses. But the Dracolich has 300+ hp, so it was able to stand up to my flambeau-wielding bane lords, and with some help of a conveniently placed castle, it eventually won the battle.

Of course even if it had lost, it'd be there again the next turn. Same with the VQ, sure, but the VQ is just so much easier to beat, seeing as it doesn't even have 100 hps, right? That's a one-shot kill with a flambeau, problem solved.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

It is much like Miasma C'tis, they are powerful, but dominion is everything. If you have strong dominion, they are suddenly quite vulnerable on the offensive. And while conquering them is a pain, if you can contain the dominion, the horrible scales they need means they can be worn down.

If you are truly convinced of thier power, we could try a duel sometime where you take the dracolich.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

I was just pointing out that they are overpowered, Quantum. You can't seriously argue that a VQ is on the same level of power, even as powerful as they are. The HP thing sort of pushes it over the edge.

Oh, and your scales aren't that bad at all, really, even with a high dominion.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Hmm - I can't play my turn. I get the "select nation" screen; I select Pythium; I enter my password; the client downloads a little bit (probably enough for a turn 0 .trn file), but nothing happens - just black in the dom2 window. No new folder under dom2.

I tried a different password, and I do get "wrong password" then, so its not just that I forgot my password already http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Do I have the right map file? I have "Karan by Targa - 162 Provinces". Is "Kingdom of Karan" something different?

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

That should be the right map, RonD. Not sure what to say...

I know there are multiple Karan maps, though. Maybe you have a different version?

www.dominions-2.org/files.htm

Go here and download Kingdom of Karan by Targa, that is the one I am using.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

I'm afraid that is exactly what I am arguing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Though, I would not be opposed to them going to 150 points, same as the VQ.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Arco Turn's in! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

RonD are you on the current patch 2.16 also?

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

I re-downloaded the map using the link CU provided (it looks to be the same file, anyway). I am using 2.16 (I also tried connecting with 2.15 - same result). I did install the 7.51 SC mod. The other game I'm in is working fine, including downloading a new turn. I shut down the firewall - same result.

I could try it on a different computer, but not until Monday.

It would appear that I am the only one having this issue. Unless someone has another idea, you may just have to restart the game without me.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

What is the exact name of the folder for this game? I can create it manually, and see if the .trn file will land there.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

RonD ---> InvisSwarm3

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Thanks, Pasha. Unfortunately - that didn't work.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

You could try starting a thread on the general Dominions discussion page. Maybe someone there would know how to solve your problem. <crossing fingers>

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

I did already put a post in the bugs thread - presumably folks who are likely to know will read that.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Could it be as simple as the pythium.trn file being corrupted? Can the first .trn file be regenerated without making everyone upload their pretenders? (which you will all have to do if I have to drop out because of this, but I'd hate to make everyone have to do it *twice* more if that doesn't solve it.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

You might want to start your own thread, because it will probably get more notice. Just my 3 cents.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

RonD I see you logged into Pythium when I went to see if new turn was hosted yet just now and it shows you there. Is it that you cant just enter inside your turn but can log into the server or have you fixed the problem?

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Well, then maybe this is just the 1st-turn version of the "waiting for game info" network bug. I have tried opening 6 or 8 dom2 windows (which sometimes lets you play a turn when hit by that bug), but it didn't work either. In any case, a simple server reset usually clears that up.

CU - could you please restart the server and post here after you do? Thanks.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Server restarted.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Thanks.

But - that didn't work either.

No point in making everyone sit around while we hope for a new idea, so go ahead and restart the game without me.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

I think I will restart the game. I'd rather have a fresh start than to have an AI already.

Sigh.

Re-upload pretenders. Again.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

ok, Pan uploaded.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

abysia uploaded

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Man uploaded

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Mackaka uploaded.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Started again!

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

delete old game also so it starts again for yourself

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Missing C'tis and Man's turns, then we will start on a 24-h quickhost schedule.

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Didnt realize the game had restarted quite so quickly. Man is in now

Re: Invisible Swarm III: open
 

Crap, lost my first turn... ah well...

Was the last one to upload (was out all day doing mother's day stuff) and it automatically uploaded my old turn 1 file... which it then rejected as "stale turn" since it was from another game.

Ah well... 1 turn lost...

Resok