Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

Oy, Frank, have you actually used these builds in a game? To my eye some seem rather dysfunctional, but I might be wrong. One thing to note is that the Heart of Life is not better than an amulet of resilience, and here's why: The chest wound gives you 5 encumberance. If you have quickness, this means 10 additional fatigue per combat turn and thus it does nothing but hogs the slot. (Yah, if you have 0 base and don't cast spells it won't matter, but why would you need reinvigoration at all if that is the case?)

Also, I think you shouldn't dismiss Cherry's suggestions quite so quickly, most of them are pretty useful items. (Well, I never did use a leather shield but still.) And a Pan with a random in astral can make a Totem shield, right?

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

Maybe it's just me, but I prefer to use Thorn Staves instead of Thorn Spear + Leather Shield. Actually I almost always use a Thorn Staff as my pretender's first weapon with "nature" nations.

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

• What is wrong with the 4-Reinvigoration from the BootsOfTheMessenger? Sure, BootsOfQuickness or WingedShoes might be better for lifedrainers, but I find all other non-unique boots rather inferior to those three, making them anything else than close-to-worst in my opinion?!?
  Also when compared to the RingOfResilience they look quite good to me: The Ring provides one more point reinvigoration, but costs twice as much and takes up a misc slot...
• As for a nature weapon, I actually like the SnakeBladderStick: it is available sort of early (lvl4), easily available (1 nature, 5 gems), a mere one-handed 3-length weapon doing an area attack. I think that it is quite a good choice early on as long a there are still a bigger number of non-poison-proof units around. Of course, one either needs an undead wielder or SnakeRing, HydraSkin, etc.

BTW, thanks for all the information on affliction chances! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif SaberCherry's Complete Condensed Survey of Affliction Chances is pretty helpful to have for me!

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

I know a bunch of players will agree with you. The boots of the Messengers are great items for SCs in many cases, and the best choice bar none in a few.

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

Regeneration cannot usually keep up with damage by itself. Reinvigoration items cannot usually keep up with the fatigue from combat.

Do that many people play ashen empire ermor? Soul Gate's troops are just as vulnerable as everything else.

How many mechanical men are you expecting to see on the battlefield?

And gives you twice as much fatigue back and causes twice as much fatigue.

There are very, very few lifeless SC chassis. Golems are the only one that comes to mind immediately, and they have their own weakness.

Quickness without lifestealing leaves you unconscious before the fight even gets started.

Lifestealing is the best of those abilities bar none. Without it, your SC cannot reach full SC status unless it has a base encumbrance of 0, a protection of around 30, or defense in the same area. If you are going to lose anything from that list, lose etherealness, as it provides no benefit at all against SCs, while lifestealing definetly does.

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

Afflictions are based on base hitpoints, not current max hitpoints.

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

Do you not ever build Pan's? They can certainly make totem shields. Once they have Lamia Queens, it's even easier.

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

I consider Pangea to be Carrion Woods by default, their Pans have 3 Nature and 2 Death.

-Frank

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

Hmmm... I always thought it was Max HP. I was basing this warning on a instance in which my Dragon pretender (not cursed or anything) got 4 or 5 afflictions from mundane weapons before dying, in a single battle. I concluded that the only probable way this could have occured was if affliction rates were based on Max HP, since this was in enemy dominion and his current HP was many times his max HP.

So... it may have been bad luck, but I'm not going to risk it again before testing the situation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

As for Boots of the Messenger, I never meant to imply that they were bad when I said "Nature lacks good boots," even though it sounds that way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I meant something like "Nature lacks universally good boots" since Boots of the Messenger are useless to 0-encumbrance SCs, while Air, Earth, and Water have boots that are useful to any SC. Boots of the Messenger are one of my most common forged items, along with Winebags, Owl Quills, and Dousing Rods. I almost always give them to Ice Devils.

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

So for mages who participate in combat you might want to equip them...how?

Here is my first guess: (this is for a generic combat spell slinger. Gear=up to contruction level 4)

1h or 2h weapon which could boost magic in chosed field.

If shield slot open, Crystal Shield.

Rainbow Armor

Dragon Helmet (all mages except air)
Winged Helmet (air mages)

Boots of the messenger

Girdle of Might
Amulet of Magic Resistance

...hmm the more I look at all the stuff available there is tons of item loadouts which you can tweak based upon which school of magic you will be focusing on with your mage. And if there is a particular stat you want to boost too. I guess this would be a topic for a separate thread. Maybe something along the lines of suggested loadout for specific mage types vs. generic loadouts for any old mage.

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

I usually don't give non-melee mages any combat equipment at all. If I have mages sitting around the lab with nothing better to do, I might forge offensive equipment for regular commanders. They can't cast spells, and I don't want them to die in melee combat, so I might give them a bow, a summoning item, or a ranged spell item so that they can be useful. Generally, however, I forge for SC's, the Pretender, maybe the Prophet, and maybe some high HP summons who won't die easily. Mage lab time and gems are limited, so why give fulll equipment to some 10-HP national mage who could die any time?

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

Crystal Shield: I avoid it, as it has high encumbrance. Very useful for a Holy or Unholy priest to let them cast level-4 or level-5 spells, but otherwise not great...

I rarely use Dragon Helmets except for assassins or thugs. They do not grant immunity, and are worth 75 gold plus 1 forge-turn... half a good mage.

My choices (in order of importance)

Boots of the Messenger (except for Earth mages who get Earth Boots)
Girdle of Might
Lucky Coin
Amulet of Resilience... only for heroic / national hero / pretender / empowered mages, since it costs 10 gems
Rune Smasher, when appropriate

Boosters - Bag of Wind, Winged Helm, Thistle Mace, Skull Staff, Earth Boots, Blood Stone, etc.

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

If you have really awesome mages, who you need for crucial spells it makes sense to equip them.
for example a caelum high seraph with air 4 water 2, equipped with:
staff of elemental mastery(fire resistance),
dragon helmet,
100% lighning resist armor
boots of the messenger
bag of winds
amulet of antimagic

is pretty hard to kill, so you can be sure that your army gets that fog warriors buff.

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

I always thought the flambeau was the best weapon out there, far better than lifedrain swords in most cases. Before you say: "Wait, flambeaus are specialized anti-undead and demon weapons, not useful in most cases"--notice how many undead and demon troops/SCs there are out there in most games. Um...like all of them except AQs?? If people fielded a more balanced group of SCs, and/or an actual army on occasion, then the flambeau would only be so/so, but this just isn't the case. You see Bane Lords, Wraith Lords, Vampires, Devils, Tartarians, Ice Devils, Arch Devils galore. All of these, no matter how well equipped, will die in 1-3 hits of a flambeau, easy. Lifedrain is meaningless in this case.

Of course the flambeau is very expensive, as it should be. I'm not saying lifedrain weapons don't have their place. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Hell sword vs Wraith sword vs Blood thorn
 

I could see giving battlefield mages Boots of Stone or Rainbow Armor; the former gives Stoneskin at no encumberance penalty, and the latter has light encumberance plus reinvigoration and magic resistance. Some protection would be handy if you're getting smacked with something of moderately low damage like Rain of Stones or Blade Wind. Air-shield robes or talismans can also make sense.