Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

How about signing and mailing a handwritten copy of the thing, with the only difference being you write "legal owner" instead of "original owner"?

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Mainly monopoly laws, or anti-trust as the Americans call it. Also unpleasent buisness practices.

In no paticular order it was illegaly nasty to IBM.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/01/ibm_ms_settle/
There was also deliberatly writing programs to break if IBMs Dr DOS was detected so programmes would only work on MS DOS. Not perhaps illegal, but underhand.

Commited serious anti-trust offences (Became a monopoly illegaly and then abused its position)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/11...eal_microsoft/
But got off when Bush got into power (allegedly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif). In any case the DoJ cut a deal shortly after the election

Oh and annoyed the EU by abusing its dominant OS position to force feed media player to customers. There are other cases still ambling through the courts.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/09/ms_wmp_windows/

There has also been a very clear understanding, if OEMs and system builders wanted to have Windows then on competing software could be bundled. This would be fine, but by this time ('98 ish) Windows was a defacto monopoly and so it would be commercial suicide not to sell PCs with Windows on. This is called 'Abusing a monopoly position.'

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Well do remember, you don't own any Microsoft OS, you lease it. That is what the EULA says, its leased not brought. I would imagine that produces all sorts of horrible legal problems, or at least expensive ones knowing lawyers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Seriously though good luck fighting this and I hope you do win. Never much liked HP, always seemed like a bunch of jumped up printer makers. A nice bit of embaressment and coughing up for being tight on new PCs would do them some good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

BF2 is not working in wine or cedega but it does work on other OS (PS2 Xbox). I don't think its going to Mac. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif BF3 will though. Looks like Star Wars Galaxies runs in cedega but not wine. Planetside is not yet working in wine.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

See? Most of the games I play won't work on linux.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Yes.
For ATI cards yes, NVIDIA no. Most of the games that have been ported to Linux run faster in Linux with NVIDIA cards (Doom3 doesn't if your CPU is the bottle-neck because they tried to take some of the work load off the ATI cards). ATI may make some drivers for Linux that actually work in the future. Linux is ready for gaming and stupid users in general. The problem is not enough people are running Linux. Why make a port to a OS if your not going to sell? Most people who have ported games to Linux did it so they could get some good dedicated servers.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

I read the thing more closely and the wording allows for GIFT or other method of ownership.

Any whoo, I have a copy of the document if any one wants to read it.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Well, back in the day there were lots of OS’s for small computers. IBM was running DOS which it got from MS. And MS did not steal DOS; they just made a very good deal to get it. People were not buying many computers for home or desktop use. It took a few years to learn to operate them and there were not a lot of boxed apps. Then Windows came along and people started buying personal computers. Then developers demanded 32bit support and better memory management, so Win 95 hit the shelves. But it was still DOS. NT hit the business world about the same time, and was more stable than 95, but not as easy to use and with few home user bells and whistles. The ease of use with 95 caused sales to take off, and prices began to fall. Then 98 and 98se came along as improvements of 95. But they were still DOS and had memory and driver issues. So then we got 98me which didn’t support kernel loaded drivers, but had poor legacy support and suffered from a lot of poorly written drivers from developers that were having to relearn writing drivers. And it had no way to stop you from loading DOS based drivers into the kernel, and were at the mercy of the driver supplier. At about this time, NT5 is ready to test, and someone got the idea to add bells and whistles to it so the home user would buy it. So then we got 2K which addressed the memory issues and got the drivers out of the root kernel once and for all and solved most of the driver burn downs. Developers had experience writing NT drivers, but there were still a lot of poorly written ones being pushed out. Also, it wouldn’t run a lot of legacy software. So the we get NT6 or Windows XP. It addresses driver problems by asking you not to install unapproved versions. And it will run most old software if you have the ability to read some directions and implement them. It also has lots of stuff for the home user and other stuff for the business world. Problem was that NT memory management was more or less maxed out and hacking had become main stream. Some of the best developers in the world were busy finding ways into other peoples computers. So MS decides to dump NT and bring a new OS to market. They asked the hardware world to make some changes, and started writing code. While this was going on, it suddenly got hard to copy write code. A single line of base everyday code could bring down a million lines if someone had included it in some other million lines of code. And the hardware peeps said no to almost every change they were asked to make. Although better memory management did see the light of day in 64 bit. So now we are about to get Longhorn. It has been forced to use NT core code because hardware is still x86, but has better memory management and much better driver handling. A lot of the new features have never gotten out of legal, and others will not be included because antitrust has done its best to pull MS back down the level of third world code shops. But it will be a step forward.

Start Rant/

IMHO, the world should have a standardized operating system and it should not be free. Every PC should run on it so that every user could operate every PC. And people should make money from it, so that there will always be people willing to invest large parts of their lives working on improving it. IPv6 should be pushed out asap, and with that done, hackers should be run to ground and harshly punished. Something along the lines of 10 years in supermax with meal time being bobbing for apples in boiling acid. The developed world should have fiber to every home and business. And the undeveloped world should be left the FUC alone. When they evolve beyond their stupid tribal methods of organization and draconian religious fantasies, we’ll welcome them with open arms. Until then, we should not pull the advanced parts of the world down to their level. You can buy a PC with MS OS and Apps for $500 US, and the money that is pilfered from UN aid packages to the third world would pay for an IPv6 rollout in three years. And while I’m on this rant, the USofA gave the world the PC, a user friendly OS, the internet, and the hardware and code to make it work. The rest of the world should shut the FUC up and not try to take it over. If they don’t like it, they should just cut the wires and put up something of their own. With their own hardware designs, their own code, and built in their own fabs. I’m sorry, but it just makes me LOL. If this ever happened, can you imagine what would come to be in Iran? The PC would shut down several times a day for prayers. Visit a porno site and the PC would kill you. Or what would the old USSR’s version of the internet have been like? Go to the wrong web site and there would be a knock on the door. Order a new PC and get on a thirty year waiting list. What about some more advanced countries, 8088’s and 14k would be the standard so long as it was all supplied by in country industry. And every summer it would all shut down for three weeks. And lastly, what if Billy G had never taken the risk, and we were still using whatever IBM had to offer. There would be a 100 OS’s each serving 1/2% of the market on proprietary systems and something from IBM that took a masters degree to use running on the rest. Well perhaps not that bad, but you can bet that we would have a lot less than we have now and we would be paying a lot more for it.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Calm down Themy. Seriously that can't be healthy for you. Whatever tablets the doctor gave you, take double the dosage. Or just stop taking them.

I'm going to take a stab here, but you've got an MCSE haven't you?

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Ye gods. That's horrible.

It would be like a state sponsored, "Floppy-disk" thumping religion which also has a license to print money.

A strong disincentive to innovate too, since any changes will threaten them and their free money.

PS:
As a matter of practicality, would these PC Police be trying to install DOS 1.0 on my Ghz desktop, or WindowsXP on my 16mhz 80806 box?
Or would they just be burning me at the stake?

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

I'm fine, just felt like spouting off.

No MCSE here, no A+ and no Net+. Lots of MCP's but I seldom do anything that has much to do with them. If I had my preference, I’d still be bending wrenches, which was my second occupation and something that I actually enjoyed. But old age and a blown out elbow dictated other wise. After the doc pinned, stapled, and stitched me back together, twice, he suggested that I find something easy to do. I had already taught myself the hardware end of it. And had some formal training on dc electronics back in the 70’s. So I took some classes on 2K and went looking for a job. I couldn’t get anyone to even read my resume, so I hung out my own shingle. Got lots of clients did lots of work and almost lost my butt after the 2K build out. So I sold my business and went to back work at a government agency as a volunteer just to force my foot in the door. Then to make things worse, the guy I sold out to couldn’t make his payments to the bank and I ended up getting 65% of it back. So to make a long story short, now I do 40+ a week for the state on a no bid contract and 15 to 40 more for A&K Ltd. More or less everything I really needed to know was learned on the job, and I brought the problem solving and customer support skills with me. I should take the last two exams and get my MCSE, but just don’t have the time. On top of the hours I work, there is a 120 mile a day commute. As I type this, the servers are grinding away on offsite backups and the printer is hammering away on verification logs. And since it’s almost the 15th, soon as the printer is free, I’ll start printing invoices for the dead beats that have yet to pay July’s billing. Then because tomorrow is pay day, I’ll be printing out checks for the 8 most over paid people in the known world. After that I’ll sleep till 4am and start it all over again. Almost forgot, I still need to put today’s tapes in the safe and set tomorrows exchanges up so the lazy *** currier can pick them up at 9:30-10:00 and then complain about all the traffic she has to fight. I don’t suppose you’d be in the market for controlling interest in an IT support business specializing in disaster recovery and SBS installations/support?

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

I agree heartily with a lot of that Thermo, but not all, especially one part. I bet there were people from a bunch of different countries who brought the world the PC, internet, and good OS. For instance, I bet there've been a whole lot of Canadians who worked in the US to help bring the PC, internet, and good OS http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif So don't be so hasty to cut us out! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

EDIT: Referring to the first rant http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Sady not. But in light of that story I can understand the need for a rant. Letting of steam is good for the soul. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

This seems in contradiction of my discussion with Ashton about the joys of repression and denial. As they say 'To each according to his need, from each from his ability.' Some things need to be let out and some things should be repressed, it depends upon the circumstances, as all things do.

"Nothing is more useless than a general maxim."

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Might have been some working at IBM (PC), but there wern't any at DARPA (First redundant wide area network) and none at MS (OS) in the early days.

PS: I guess I could have just said “America”. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Ah well, guess I've showed my ignorance again!

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Naa, don’t worry about it. I guess that’s what comes from sharing the largest open border in the world. The only thing you all need to worry about is global warming. First the killer bees and fire ants will crossover, followed by 40 million hard working Central Americans looking for the good life

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

In my experience, this has been blatantly untrue. For me, very few old DOS or win95 era games ever worked with XP compatibility mode. win2k has pretty much the same compatibility layer that XP does, though perhaps slightly less refined, which can be enabled by registering slayer.dll. The XP version seems to have just as much hit and miss rate as the 2k version. DosBOX or a win98 partition are the only ways to go for old Windows software compatibility...

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

I find XP and win2k to work well with some of my old games like Dark Forces.... however, sound drivers are something else.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

It's odd...there's actually very little distinction nowadays between Canadians and Americans. We essentially share...everything. Culture, technology, trade, language, religions, basic political systems, etc. We may as well just amalgamate and be done with it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif Actually, bad idea. Seeing as how Canada is larger than the US, but with only 1/10 the population, it'd be a little difficult to get fair representation in federal government. More likely is having Western Canada (Manitoba and all provinces west) separating from the rest of Canada.

Wow, I've really managed to get off topic. Sorry!

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Canada as part of the US would be a blip on the map.

Canada as it's own country is actually something to notice.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Yep, I agree with that too. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Flag_Canada.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Flag_Canada.gif[/img] It seems I'm quite agreeable today. And talkative. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Flag_Canada.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Flag_Canada.gif[/img]

Now if only the US would give us back the $5 Billion they stole from us with the illegal duties on softwood lumber, I'd be happy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

IMHO, the world should have a standardized transportation system and it should not be free. Every city should run on it so that every city would connect seamlessly. And people should make money from it, so that there will always be people willing to invest large parts of their lives working on improving it. More trafficking police asap, and with that done, smugglers should be run to ground and harshly punished. Something along the lines of 10 years in supermax with meal time being bobbing for apples in boiling acid. The developed world should have subways to every home and business. And the undeveloped world should be left the FUC alone. When they evolve beyond their stupid tribal methods of organization and draconian religious fantasies, we’ll welcome them with open arms. Until then, we should not pull the advanced parts of the world down to their level. You can pay $500,000 US for your part of the transportation system, this would pay for an subway rollout in three years. And while I’m on this rant, the USofA gave the world the Diesel-electric train, the model T and their blue prints. The rest of the world should shut the FUC up and not try to take it over. If they don’t like it, they should just close their ports and put up something of their own. With their own subway designs, their own trains, and build their own cars. I’m sorry, but it just makes me LOL. If this ever happened, can you imagine what would come to be in Iran? The trains would shut down several times a day for prayers. Visit a drug dealer and the train would kill you. Or what would the old USSR’s version of the roads have been like? Go to the wrong street and there would be a knock on the car door. Streets would take 30 years to build. What about some more advanced countries, steam engines and horses would be the standard so long as it was all supplied by in country industry. And every summer it would all shut down for three weeks. And lastly, what if Jay Gould and Jim Fisk had never taken the risk, and we were still using ferries and oxen. There would be a 100 train companies each serving 1/2% of the market on proprietary land and lots of train wrecks with the New York Central. Well perhaps not that bad, but you can bet that we would have a lot less than we have now and we would be paying a lot more for it.
God Bless America
War Is Peace
Freedom Is Slavery
Ignorance Is Strength

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

What about Macs, routers, ISP and digital-wristwatchs? If this only pretains to PC I will be happy to buy a Mac and put Linux on it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Do you not believe in freedom of speech? Do you not consider computer code a form of communication? Are you a fascist?

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

i see that you are trying to be sarcastic, but you are more correct than you would like to think. in the old USSR, it did take ages to get any public works projects done. roads ran up to a river, and continued on the other side - with no bridge!

In the middle east, railroads pass from oil wells to refineries, going through cities but not stopping in them. because they are wells and refineries that belong to the western world, and theres no use in spending money trying to develop the third world. you poke fun at the idea, but who the hell is going to fund a subway system in the Sudan? its not worth the time or money, and it would just be destroyed in a civil war anyway.

The world would stand to benefit from a standardized public transit system, and the US did pioneer alot of it. do you know how many different railroad gauges there are in the UK? you cant move a train from one track to another!

The computing world needs standards too. but free commerce dictates that the only standards we will have will be of the defacto sort. and our rails will never be standardized. and in the US, are rails will never be fully utilized because of the oil, tire, and highway industries that keep mass transit suppressed.

So there are lots of things that SHOULD be done, that never will.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

All countries have transportation problems. Open a map for Colorado Springs. We let the real estate agents make are roads! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif
Iran and Turkey have many railroads that were made even before oil was being refined. Oil is often moved by pipe line.

And USA railroads have always been standardized?

The GNU community IS making GUI standards. They ARE working with Mac and Solaris. KDE and Mac have been handing code back and forth for a long time now; they are both using khtml. Everybody is complying with the w3c BUT IE. As Thermodyne pointed out IPv6 is coming (slowly though).

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Well for starters the UKs had a 'Standard Gauge' act since the 1840s, with only the Great Western any different. And even that was changed over 1892 (Overnight. As in literally one nights work! Amazing what you can do with no H&S to slow you down). So actually all UK railtracks are the same gauge and have been for over a centuty. (The things you learn playing Railtoad Tycoon hey. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif)

The US didn't pioneer standard gauge, the NE US used standard (copied off the Brits I might add http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif) and the rest used random sizes, anywhere between 4ft and 6ft in fact. This was a problem when railroads started to meet up, so eventually late 1880s they went for standard gauge for all US rail, spending the next few years doing all the conversions. So in fact US rails have been standardised, again for about a century.

This doesn't bode well for you arguments Puke, if I'm honest. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Especially as computer hardware has standards, rock solid ones. You can buy any hardware from any company and it will work in your machine as long as both are on the same standard. How many other industries can say that?

Software is shakier, mainly as MS changes standards to make them more propietry. Internet Explorer is not standard compliant off the top of my head.


Finally I think Sir Tim Berners-Lee and CERN would have something to say about inventing the internet as we know it. Quite alot actually.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

No, Canadians would tip the narrowly balanced system to the left and we could finally have some things that other civilized countries in the world have had for decades, like national health care.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Is this topic still on technology, or have we completly abandoned the topic?

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

To-pic? What is this 'To-pic' of which you speak?

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

The 'To-pic' is what's above and to the right of your cartoony head.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Well we've never stayed on topic before. I don't see why we should start now.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

No, no, no, that's the corner of the post border.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Sir Tim was responsible for the www. That we love so much, not the redundant WAN. DARPA and a few universities sitting on a bunch of fed funded supercomputing developed the RWAN. Public side of it was to insure communications if the cold war went hot in a limited exchange. Private side and the reason that the Air force poured money into it was to influence the Soviet target list. When it went on line in 66 IIRC, most of the nodes were located in out of the way low target value areas. Data transmission was coded teletype. Later, the same wires carried the first binary data. Security was pressurized conduit. But soon after, the CIA/Navy developed a way to tap pressurized conduit, but that’s another story some of you may have heard parts of.

As for CERN, they have added a lot of functionality to the net, but they to came late to the game, building on DOD technology. Also of note would be that TCP/IP came from the DOD. If they had chosen to sit on it, we would probably started the WWW with IDP/SPP or DECnet, which was the high power network of the early 80’s DEC Pathworks was how Apple, DOS and Windows connected to it. And of late, the NIX community has started to use it again.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Security.

Take a 9x machine.
Install TCP.
Connect to Net.

Take a XP SP1 machine.
Install TCP.
Connect to Net.

Which box gets rooted?
That's right--the XP box.

Why?
Exploitable services exposed to the net.

Now put the two in the soft and gooey interior of a LAN. They'll both get 0wned. Why? File sharing was installed, of course, and being on the "protected" interior of the LAN, they don't have any workstation-level protection installed and thus fall to the next worm that gets through the LAN's eggshell exterior.

But Sivran, Microsoft issued a patch!
Ah, but patches, after the arduous Microsoft testing cycle, must also face the corporate testing cycle, delaying implementation perhaps long enough for the network to get 0wned.

Games.

Take an old game. Let's say Descent, or Descent II. Install on 98. Game runs. Joystick may be a hassle depending on model, but game runs. Install on XP. Game does not run. Compatability mode isn't.

"Up"grading.

In all seriousness, why should someone downgrade from 98SE to XP? What benefits do they get, that they cannot also get from 2k if they seriously need it?

They will still face the same spyware threats. They will still face the same browser exploit threats. They will still face email-borne virus threats.

They will not face the worm-without-user-intervention threats--9x is not susceptible at all unless file and print sharing is exposed. XP is susceptible, even if file and print sharing isn't even there.

Software still runs on 9x. 9x can be quite stable--the trick, I find, is simply not using IE, and avoiding memory and resource-leaking programs like some ancient versions of ZoneAlarm.

Multimedia still plays on 9x. Just need the codecs.

Everything is still in a familiar place, same as it was in 95. No silly rearranged menus or control panels.

You don't have to rent 98 like you rent XP.

Erm. Where's the advantage of XP again?

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Another "great" comparison based on observations tonight:
SJ's laptop:
166Mhz, 48 megs of ram, win 98.

SJ's sister's laptop:
1.5 Ghz, 512megs of ram, winXP.

---

Q) Which runs faster?
A) Neither. It was a trick question: they both have about the same speed and responsiveness.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

I only went up to XP because some programmes flatly refused to run on 98/ME, or ran awfully. I got Dawn of War which had a developer admited 'feature' that it ran awfully on 98/ME as the memory management was optimised for XP.

That aside I wouldn't of bothered, I'm still not convinced myself.

Oh and Thermy that's a bad argument, as you well know. Different people can invent the same thing, I agree it happened slightly faster because DoD released it but something similar (or perhaps better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif) with a couple of years. Lots of people were working in the field, inventors do exist outside of the US you know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Hey Sirvan, see post above, Buy a book, take a class, hire a pro. Because you don’t have a clue. First off, 9x can be exploited by anyone who can touch the machine. And any second year computer tech student that can touch it on the net. Second you should be securing XP before you expose it to the net. Third, you should have a hardware firewall between you and any high speed WAN. Fourth, LAN systems are secured with GP and are tightly locked down, unless the LAN manager needs to see post above also. Fifth, you get what you pay for. If you buy a single stand alone license, you can install XP on any single system you want, one at a time just like 98. The copy that comes preinstalled on the Compaq from CompUSA is a discounted OEM install, and not transferable. Read the fine print before you buy! Sixth, as to the 9X games you love, ever hear of dual booting?


PS: Here’s your sign.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Do you have any idea of the money that was spent to develop TCP/IP? Or how many people worked on it? Only the US or USSR could have done it during that period in time. There are very few people in the world that know everything about what it can do and how it does it. Most people don’t have a clue. How many of you know what is taking place at each of the layers, or what the layers are? I’m not trying to say that Americans are smarter than the rest of the world, and I’m sure that there were foreign nationals that contributed to the project. What I’m saying is the US had the technical foresight and the economic strength to develop it even though the original use was just to connect dissimilar DOD systems on a RWAN, and to insure reliable data transmission. As to having the same idea at the same time, smartest and best funded person usually wins the race. There are 100’s of network protocols, but none have been able to displace TCP/IP. It has just been too robust, too adaptable, and too deployed for any one to give it any kind of a challenge.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Sure we wouldn't be where we are today without the money chucked at it (of course as a defence project it could have been done far cheaper by almost anyone else. This isn't a dig at US defence contractors, it's a dig at the Worlds defence projects. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif))

I would definetly dispute the technical foresight part. It was a task specific job, nobody involved was planning for any big public use. Oh sure maybe the odd one or two lower down, but I'd bet none of the money men.

A final point, the best technical system regularly loses. Everything from Betamax and Minidisc through to hardware standards and fighter jets (TSR-2 **sob**). Marketing and politics normally determines it.

In this case as TCP/IP was used by the millitary and universites it had an unmatchable deployed base and couldn't lose.

Much like Windows actually. It doesn't matter what the future versions are like, the installed base is so high developers only work on the MS version (others if they have time, which they normally don't) and it's up to bodges and fixes to get programmes to work on other platforms.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

TSR-2, been a while since I heard anyone mention that plane. With the advantage of hind sight, it’d probably best that it wasn’t built. By the time it would have entered service, speed was no longer a viable defense, and it was slow by the standards of the day. Lots of countries were caught in more or less the same position at that time. Here, the B58’s were much more advanced, but found to be too expensive to maintain. They were pulled from service after a very short service life. And the B70 was probably 2 generations more advanced, but never saw production partly because of survivability and cost of operation issues. The plane that did fit the specs came a little later, but was not well received. The US fielded a few F111’s and Australia bought a few. England had already purchased F4’s by then, and screwed that up by replacing the engines with units of lower performance. And if ever there was a plane that needed all of the raw power it could get, it was the Phantom II. Then SAC bought a few FB111’s, longer range higher bomb load F111’s, as a stopgap until the B1 rolled out. But then we screwed that up by first delaying the B1 and then scrapping the high speed low altitude intake system which castrated the engine performance.

Another plane that fit the specs and was flying at the time was the A5 Vigilante, but the Navy also found the cost of operation to be more that they could stand. I guess it’s a good thing that Boeing and Avro built some damn good bombers, since their designs have both out lived several generations of replacements. The plane that the TSR-2 was going to replace also lived on for quite a few years. The US built high altitude versions of the Canberra were almost the state of the art for high altitude recon work, second only the U2’s and a hell of a lot easier to fly.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Well the RR engine was far better, as always http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif, than any of the ****e GE and Pratt and Whitley tried to call jet engines. The problem was that the F-4 was a brick and bodging a decent engine into it was doomed, especially as it was done on a tight budget.

To quote the designer:
"All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics. TSR-2 simply got the first three right."

Now maybe I'm crazy, but I do think that supercruise, Mach 2.5+ sprint is far faster than anything else out there. Especially the B-1B.

This, along with virtually everthing any Labour goverment has ever done, is reason enough for the entire lot to be put up against a wall and shot. And their parents just to be sure. Bitter and twister? Damn right! The systematic destruction of most of the UKs heavy industry and f**king the country over totally whenever they were let into power is all the reason I need to have them all killed.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Thermodyne, please do not quote huge posts in the future. Ellipses work miracles.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Man that was a read!

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

There are unfortunately many examples of great aircraft that were scrapped due to politics.

A classic example is the Avro Arrow (CF-105). In the '50's, Canada commissioned the creation of a new fighter-interceptor to counter the threat of new Soviet long-range bombers. It was feared the Soviets would send their bombers the short way to North America, over the North Pole. These fighters were designed to intercept, and destroy the bombers before they reached inhabited areas.

In 1958 after 4 years of production, the first Arrow was completed. However, shortly thereafter, the current government was voted out. The new government, for some inexplicable reason, killed the project, even after a few prototypes had been constructed. All prototypes, blueprints, everything the gov't could get their hands on was destroyed. If the Arrow was allowed to enter service in the Canadian Airforce, they'd in some ways be more advanced than the aircraft of the Canadian military today.

I've left a lot out of the story, but it was simply tragic what happened to the project, if you are familiar with it's history.

If you're curious about the aviation "firsts" that the Avro Arrow incorporated, take a look at This List , it shows the many innovations the Arrow had (remember the year was 1958!)

Some more interesting info on thrust:weight ratios:

Another webpage with historical, political, and technical information

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Wouldn't have been as fast the Lightning :p And that was a design prototype not the production model.

Still the Lightning was an achingly fast plane, by any standards. Some of the stuff that plane did was ridiculous, for a plane designed in 1954 to climb, out speed and out accelerate every other NATO fighter for most of its career.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Again, hind sight would tell us that it was the correct way to go. None of the Mach 3 fighters were built, and as it turned out, they were not needed. At about the same time, the US canceled the F107 and F108 fighter programs. And results of later designs like the SR 71 suggest that the original Mach 3 designs would have never have been completely successful because of unforeseen engineering problems. Also, the two questions that remains unasked and unanswered are how would it have been paid for and where would the titanium have come from. To build the SR 71, the US ran one of the largest ruses in history. The titanium for obtained from the USSR for the alleged purpose of manufacturing paint. Companies were set up all across the third world and the titanium was then diverted to the US. The F12 was also a victim of the titanium shortage, having to compete with the ballistic missile program as well as Gemini and Apollo which had the highest priorities. Only 1 YF12 was built, and the results of it flight testing have never been released.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Rudeness does nothing to support your point.

Physical access leads to an exploited machine full stop. Operating system does not enter into it. Remotely, a patched 9x system might could be crashed, but you'll not be seeing it get rooted by the kiddies and worms running around. Anything more and again OS does not enter into it: the attacker was determined and, as any second year tech will tell you, a determined attacker is going to get in.

I do not advocate that businesses keep 98, much less choose 9x over 2000, however if they have existing 9x machines in low-risk areas performing tasks that won't be done any better on a newer OS, why should they bother with a newer OS? Don't fix what isn't broke, right?

As for end-users they probably have even more reason to stick with 9x if it is doing the job for them. Why should they bother with the hassle of switching? Again, they'll face the same dangers either way, assuming those dangers even apply, and 9x does the job. For what I do with my machines, 2000 does the job better and so that is what I use. 98SE however did the job quite respectably and crashed or required reboot almost as rarely as 2000 Server. The last 98 box in the house--tasked with playing movies to the TV in the living room on the weekends--suffers on rare occasions not because of the OS it's running, but because of the ancient video card. It doesn't crash, as most people seem to believe 98 is wont to do at the drop of a hat. It just sits there, providing internet access to that end of the house and providing entertainment (who needs media center? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif). It couldn't possibly do its job any better if it were running XP or 2000. In fact, given the hardware in it, it'd most likely perform worse.

Insulting and talking down to those who still use 9x--hell my granddad still uses ME and has no problems--only shows your own arrogance and ignorance.

Use the right OS for the right job. 9x is just fine, even superior, in some situations. There are those situations where it doesn't matter, and in still others, yes it is inferior. That's a choice for the user to make. I'm sorry you can't seem to accept that.

As to dual-booting, why have two operating systems when one does most or everything a user needs equally well or with negligible difference?

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Again you post half truths and outright misinformation. Your first post is dead wrong. Physical access to an XP/2K system does not give you instant access to its information, where as 98 will allow anyone to logon and browse at will. And while the skilled hacker can root out any system, the majority of hackers are not that skilled. Less than .1% has that skill set and the low moral values required to put the skills to that use. And even the skilled ones are often stopped by modern domain security these days. Another correction would be that there is no such thing a properly secured 98 system. There hasn’t been a new security patch in what….two years now? And 9x is wide open to TSR’s. I won’t even bother to go into NTFS permissions or Group Policy; I seriously doubt you would take the time to digest the information.

To your second point I agree. But they should not be connected to LAN’s where sensitive data is stored. A 9x system can be bott'd with a script or TSR and used to compromise every system on said LAN. I am not a big fan of upgrading the OS’s on enterprise systems. The demands of newer OS usually require upgrading older system hardware to run properly, and the money would be better spent on new systems.

To your third point, no one is saying that 98 can’t fill a roll, and we are certainly not saying that your systems don’t serve you well, how would we know one way or the other. But, the average user will get a new OS when he replaces his equipment, 98 is obsolete and no longer licensed as preinstalled software on new systems. At no point have I spoken to the serviceability of your personal systems, I fail to see why you feel the need to defend them. But then perhaps you have good reasons that are unknown to us.

To your fourth point, I stand by my statement. Based on your first post, you don’t know what you are talking about, and it contains outright untruthful statements. And I fail to see why you brought your grand father into the discussion; it has no bearing what so ever in this exchange.

As to your point of using 98 in the right situations, that is true. But the situations are few. As a rig to run 9x series games on yes, because of economic constraints yes. But that is about it. And you’ll have to show me where I posted that I can’t accept people choosing to run 9x, I don’t recall saying that. To me it seems to be another untruth, this time veiled as if it was a statement I made. With the exception of 9x games or old down-level hardware, 9x is not superior.

And your last point makes little since. If you are keeping a 9x system just to run non NT compatible software, why keep a second system going? Unless of course there is another reason such as a user who relies on that system. I actually take it a step further by running more than on OS simultaneously. I don’t often advise this to others, as the hardware demands are more than the average system can provide.

My point is this, when looked at as a whole, XP is better than 2K or 9x. 2K can be adapted to standards that approach XP, but 9x can not. Longhorn will be better across the board than XP. But that does not mean that everyone should run out and buy it. I do object to people who have never used it crapping on it just because they think it’s cool to jump on the bandwagon and crap on anything new from MS. I will be glad to continue to debate the issue with you, but lets get more specific and leave grand parent and such out of it. Also, as of now, my opinion still stands, so here’s your sign.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

Thermodyne, you seem overly concerned with people hating Microsoft because it is trendy to hate it or because it is successful or whatever. This is blatantly opposite from reality for probably everybody that has posted in this thread. There are billions of valid reasons to hate Microsoft, none of which have anything to do with success or popularity.

Also, note that physical access to a machine guarantees compromise, period. It doesn't matter what is run on the machine, it will be compromised if the cracker means to compromise it. Noone said anything about "instant access." Guaranteed compromise has absolutely nothing to do with instantaneous access.

Re: Microsoft VISTA
 

People can hate anything they want, but they should be able to support their position.

As to access guaranteeing a compromise, I would have to argue that with you. But to keep this simple, why don’t you tell me how you would gain access to the data, then I tell you why it won’t work. And you get six tries, after that there is no data to get unless you are going to use some forensic recovery method. And for that you’ll have to remove the system which is beyond the scope of access.