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Re: I have never won a sp game...
dont be so hard on your self! anyway your going to be on my team! no one laugh!
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
That general strategy might work. You just have to come up with a way to start conquering provinces before you get to Conjuration 7 and Lamias. I think Carrion Woods can conquer provinces even without a combat pretender, especially with high-level nature blessing. You took expensive magic, and received a good blessing, so you could as well use it! (before the population of your capital withers away and you cannot recruit any more living units)
You might also want to use more cheaper mages instead of fewer good ones for research, as magic scale gives more benefit to more mages. You should also search all your conquered provinces for nature sites, to get more gems and researchers. |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
Might well be. I haven't used them in a long time. I might have to try, though... That did sound like an interesting strategy.
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
5 gems for 13 creatures that have lifedrain+regen+come back as serpents when killed seems more than 'interesting' :p
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Re:pangea carrion woods
playing a game against the comp. I am pangea carrion woods
started in quite a good place built a fort or two in strateigic places (like choke points or river crossings) and was getting about 30 nature and 20 death a turn when I started with my 50 researchers spread out over 3 provinces to cast hundreds of v/o and with the ivy crown I was getting about.... 70-85 vine ogres a turn gave them to that ettin manikin (or whatever) gave him heart finder sword whip of command rod of the leper king horned helmet horror helm boots of long strides wolf pelt? ring of regen gave him 90 saggitarius/ mino taur manikins 30 vine ogres and make him a prophet! teamed him up with a carrion centaur and gave him 15 of those wooden construct thingies and a horde of mandragora+other undead and sent them on a rampage go to about the oak of all ages waited 1 turn so that build up a small defense there and replenish my lost troops next turn? ulm has built a castle in oak of all ages defended by about 100 black plate infantries 50 trolls 4 troll kings 30 mech. men and 5 golems! thats even before I saw how many other commanders there were there(harpy sout http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif) I was feeling bad in just one turn he had built a castle, and raised a huge defense and no one was close enough to help me reinforce my troops or position well I won in the end lost 8 v/o 2 lumber constructs and 50 undead thingies most of his army ran away though! I killed about quater of his army then he pegged it! then his army went on a killing spree and I was alwys one porvince behind them until... they stopped for a turn to be continued! |
Re:pangea carrion woods
gj, vine ogre spam is fun to try with kings (but crowns work aswell)
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Re:pangea carrion woods
How many turns did all that take ? I suppose 60+.. Vs AI it looks like total overkill to me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
The Naga/Lamia strategy is absolutely brutal, but it does have a _few_ problems... nothing insurmountable, though. The beautiful thing is that the Regeneration is a percentage, I believe, so Gift of Health is an absolute must for these... they regenerate all the damage they typically take every turn... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
It's not my favorite strategy, but it's definitely one of those that is rather easy to win with. Any of the auto-generating unit themes (Ashen Empire, Soul Gate, and Carrion Woods) tend to be easy as well. And don't forget, people, that Lamia Queens are, imo, one of the better conjurable researchers. And they get good paths, and if you are lucky it won't take much to put up Haunted Forest... that puts paid on Ulm at the very least. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Wyatt |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
33 turns... turn 35 now
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
Here is my newbie story. I had only played one game until I read this thread. It was Caelum as my first Empire (suggestions? good/bad choice for newbs?) I got hammered into dust. Reading this thread, I decided to play on that downloadable "Talis" map. As a side note -- THAT MAP ROCKS FOR NEWBIES! Ehem. Okay, so I went with Machaka, because everyone is saying Carrion Forest is pretty easy, etc. Also, I kept all the game options default; no easy research or ANYTHING to handicap the AI. I set up one opponent, an EASY AI Mictlan. I probably could have made it one or two levels higher, though. I used this Lamia Queen/Lamia strategy and I crushed them. They didn't even have a chance.
I was using a level 10 Nature only Dragon (50pts, woot!), so I could use my pretender to help in an emergency. I also took adv of his holy blessings, and started a 10 dark hunter army with my prophet. This was my main attack force for most of the game. At the end of the game (and only then!) did I build two forts near my enemy's front door and start pumping out troops to absorb casualties so my Lamias and Blessed Hunter Spiders could get their job done. Mainly armies made of light inf (I think), but also Spider knights for a little more staying power. From day 1 I was hiring Sorceresses for research purposes. I also had a Magic 3 dominion to help with this. Later in the game, this map had some sages I made use of, but I don't think it did anything because I had all my Lamias and Gift of Health already going. I did very, very little army recruiting in the beginning game, other than my holy regenerating, berserking spiders! I think I sent my starting troops to go with them, and maybe buffed them a tad. I know many of them ended up being 2 star grunts at some point in the game. I used no heroes effectively. I tried to; I even equipped them, but their attack AI along with soldiers was really crappy. Naresh, the real trick for me was definitely playing on Talis. If it weren't such a boring strategy, I'd do it again against a HARD AI and see if I can do it. I think I'm going to diss Machaka for a while, though. I don't really like them :-P. From what I hear about Carrion Woods, I'd like Pangea even less. My next several games will probably be astonishing losses, but hey. Anyway, if you ever want someone to MP, I'd love to. Maybe even a co-op scenario! That would be cool. =$= Big J Money =$= |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
bigjmoney try the thread calling all players were missing a player
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
Congratulations about the victory, and some points:
10 Nature Dragon isn't as good at summoning Lamias as 9 Nature (green) Naga. That one gets a Lamia summoning bonus, can use more items in battle and still has pretty good stats. The 10th pick of magic costs a lot, so Nature 9 would probably been enough. You would have gotten 1 lamia less pre summoning, and you units would have only lost the last point of berserk from their blessing. Machaka Hoplites are very good infantry, and Machaka Archers are very cheap. You can make lots and lots of them, and your Black Sorcerors can cast Flaming Arrows... You researched Enchantment any way for Gift of Health, and it would have only taken some extra gems, or casting Phoenix Power first, or lucky Black Sorcerer with his random in Fire, or research in construction and Flaming Skull (1Fire 1Death miscellanous item, boosts Fire by 1) to be able to cast it in all major battles. |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
I like!!!
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
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That's just not possible any AI did that in 35 turns... [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img] |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
thought comp didnt like castles
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
@shovah
Actually, the AI loves castles and tries everything to conquer one as soon as it is spotted. Saldy, the AI can't build castles, not in one and not in 10 turns! But it is quite good in finding earth sites which give one for free - especially Ulm. And oc. there are always those random events ... With high sites and richness setting, the AI has little problem building such an army... with a high (random) astral 'draw' on the pretender it's even quite possible it build those golems early |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
my naga gives my white centaurs +6 berserk in my current sp game :p
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
it is possible I have seen it and if I wasnt past it at the time I would of got a screen shot
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
I just won my first SP game, but it took a long time, from the comparisons I get to other big MP's... turn 90. I did spend plenty of time screwing around, and often forgot to set thing correctly just because I "had to see the next battle right away"... you know. Unfortunately the AI started to beat itself up towards the end, mainly by sending pathetic forces headlong into my 21+ PD. (I was playing Ulm). I had a terrible time assaulting Man's castle because of the mages who spammed me with dragonflies; but then it attacked into my beseiging forces and I could get my knights back around to knock out the mage. An army of flying amazons and their devil cohorts really helped me out in the end to clean up after the AI started a rampage; reminds me of the Eastern Front tactics in WW2: let them in, and cut them off. Every subsequent attack by the AI cost them due to those blacksteel-clad crossbowmen. I have a feeling such a tactic won't work in MP...
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
Longest game I have ever played was 357 turns (Faerun). The AI is unable to counter many MP strategies. Even fairly weak SCs (banelords and suchlike) can cause severe problems for the computer. Or you could play Ermor.
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
I find that against the AI I will either utterly dominate or fail miserably. As Ulm I don't actually think it's really nesescary to use a large number of summons. If you can get conjuration 7 there are a large number of options available to you. Riches from beneath is excellent for ulm, particularily with a number of fortresses, earth blood deep well and enliven statues. One of my number one goals when playing ulm is to find a province that can recruit sages. Although master smiths are not bad researchers sages are undoubtebly better and help ulm's reletivly poor research get ahead (or at least to break even).
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
Just had my first SP win as Ulm. 1 on 1 vs. C'tis.
I had a province that could recruit wizards which helped big time. I built up five powerful armies, about 70 troops each, and started an all out war. The very next turn my pretender was killed by a horror! I don't even know why! Needless to say I was shocked. I had planned a good portion of my strategy around my pretender kicking some hiney, so that threw a considerable wrench in the proceedings. The next 6-7 turns was chaos but the strong design of my armies payed off as C'tis's forces were brought down one by one. The AI pretender (scorpion king) routed two armies before he finally died in a satisfying puff of red blood http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif The best battle of the whole game was my "kinda SC" spy teleporting around and spawning undead with his skull talisman, horror helm, teleport shoes (forgot the name), cloak of shadows, and lucky blade. He routed an army of 30 something lower quality troops and a shaman. All in all it was fun but didn't really feel like a great win. My attack was fairly haphazard and weak now that I think about it. Also the use of province defence is a huge advantage to the human player. The AI doesen't seem to understand it. Any suggestions for a race to try next? |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
Sorry for writing a post this long!
What kind of armies did you build? Did you just recruit slow, lumbering Heavy Infantry of Ulm? Or did you accompany them with e.g. Archers? Archers, cheapest indies only costing 3 resources, can be produced in large quantities. They also probably won't hurt your Ulmish troops, unlike your own Arbalests! Did you use Black Knights? How many? They can be very powerful troops, but they are also expensive. Using few of them can help your armies, using too many drains out your money. How did you use your Master Smiths? Did you use Earth Power from Conjuration path? Did you make Earth Boots from Construction? What about Dwarven Hammers? Did you use Evocations? Magma Bolts, Blade Wind or Magma Eruption? Besides questions, here are few answers: The horror that attacked was either due to a spell (Send Lesser Horror, Send Horror) or from combination of Horror Mark. Magical province, Misfortune or otherwise bad luck. As Ulm, using your national units, there is a simple path that works very well: Production 3, Drain 3. A good castle is also a must. Master Smiths are immune to the research-lowering effect of Drain! For the other scales, you could go for lots and lots of money (Order, some Growth), or gamble for fortune (Luck, Growth for money, Order weakens Luck). While Ulm benefits from rainbow pretender, too much is too much. On the other hand, some combinations are invaluable to Ulm. Also, some Rainbow pretender can be used offensively even early in the game. Quickness, Eagle Eyes and almost any early Evocation can be deadly, and Quickness/Mind Burn is also very good. Cyclops with enough Earth for Forge of the Ancients can help Ulm immensely. It also works well with Enliven Statues, high in Thaumaturgy. As you are learning the game, I'd suggest that you return to Ulm. But trying a different nation first, so that you can see the power of some other strategy, can have a huge impact on how you play without them. You might want to try archers/crossbows strategy: Man has Longbowmen and the mages can cast Wind Guide, Marignon has Crossbowmen and the mages can cast Flaming Arrows, Machaka has very cheap Archers and can also aquire Flaming Arrows. Machaka also has Death, so they could benefit more from Enchantment. All three have cheap mages that can research very fast with some Magic. You don't need as many resources in these strategies, so don't take Production. You could even go for Sloth if you think you cna manage without heavy-armored frontline for the archers. Also, for pretender, take something different. If you had a cheap pretender, like Wyrm /Manticore with little/no magic, take something expensive. If you had a rainbow, go for single path mastery. Else, go for a rainbow. And you might try cheap Wyrm if you want to try having lots of good scales and a good fort. Expensive single-path mages, for blessings as well: Marignon, Man: Fire 9 Moloch. Machaka's spider would benefit too, but they already have lots of fire and I usually don't go for flaming spider fangs. Machaka: Nature 9. Now the Spiders are really bad boys. And they Berserk, so they won't run away. Cheap, single-path, for a weak blessing and possibly spesific spell or item: Man: Air 6 - if you use Wardens, they are protected from missiles. Your Mages also benefit. Man/Marignon: Earth 4/6 - Reinvigoration and sacred mages is a good combination. Man/Machaka: Oracle with Astral 4-5 - blessing isn't great, but Astral has lots of interesting spells. In addition, if you can afford Earth as well, you get interesting items and boosters with Earth/Astral combination. Machaka: Death 4-5 - blessing isn't very useful, but your mages already have some Death, and some spells can be cast more often (Raise Dead) in battle, others benefit from higher path (Undead Horsemen), and this really makes Enchantment useful for you. Try using mages in fights. Machaka has EF casters, they can do Magma Bolts. The other mages also have their uses, but you might be overwhelmed with the many directions available to you. As Machaka also has well-armored Hoplites, it is quite similar to Ulm in many accounts, you probably feel most familiar with it. PD is very weak, though, so you have to find other ways of defending your empire. Marignon starts with Holy Pyre, so you can use your mages or pretender in even the first battles. The troops have good weapons, but ony Man-at-arms have shields - and with you crossbows, this means they won't survive as well as your Ulmians. You can also go for for either Evocation or Thaumaturgy - Fire has pure damage, Astral goes through armor but is blocked by magic resistance. Don't forget Conjuration and Phoenix Power, nor Alteration! Phoenix Pyre can be fun, Incinerate is deadly, and you get Body Ethereal. PD is Crossbows, and very similar to Ulm, and also has priests in the case your enemy brings undead. Man has Longbowmen, which are very good. The melee units aren't very good, but at least they have shields. You also have limited Stealth capability - Monks are stealth preachers, Mothers can sneak, Wardens and Lord Wardens are stealthy... If you happen to find a Druid province, or even a Brigand's Lair, add stealthy archers. This works better with offensive blessing, of course. Man also has weak PD. Nature is quite supportive path, but Air has some powerful Evocations. You can go for many directions: Vine Men/Ogres (Mothers+Thistle Mace+Vine Crown is expensive to set up, but pays back), Call of the Wild, supply items, Firbolgs, regeneration... |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
Wow! Thanks for all the advice Endoperez.
To answer your Q's... I had drain 3, order 2, and 7 dominion since it said their priests are weak, which they are. My preists were preaching to a deaf audiance. The evil reptillians of C'tis dominated the dominion side of things. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Envy.gif[/img] Now that I think about it I also totally forgot to make a prophet! Definatly need to work on dominion heheh. In each of my armies I had mainly archers and heavy inf. supported by 10-15 black knights, a wizard and a master smith. Black Knights are some bad dudes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif Two of my armies had an elite group of knights that collected experiance on loads of indies. C'tis was mowed down by them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Infact only those 2 armies survived with any considerable numbers left at the end. Would have been a lot easier if my pretender's death wasen't so ill-timed. He (master druid) commanded an army of vine ogres and crushers and supported a golem. The golem still went on to cause some damage but in the chaos of war I forgot to get him another wizard for support and he died. Some wasted potential there. I'll probably make more golems next time. They seemed powerful if used right. I also tried to recruit every merc that had a big army. Often I didn't have the money to support them for long so I would send them on suicide missions just so C'tis coulden't use them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif One of the mercs was a really cool priest that banished tons of C'tis undead. He was a big help and contributed to the win for sure. At first I had master smiths research and look for magic sites. Then when I found the wizards I switched them to item making, lab building, and a few supported armies. I made a few dwarven hammers, tons of lanterns, armor/trinkets for my main commanders and spys. Didn't think about buffing their earth skill, should have done that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif I really can't remember all the spells I had. There are tons of them. I know I had a few buffs and some summoning spells that helped. Don't think I had much offense spells. My prentender had battle fortune which was nice but I only got to use it once before the horror took him. |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
if by golems you mean regular golems they are s1 commanders and therefor self supporting, dominion 7 is wasted for ulm since you priests can only bring it up to their low priest lvl so... im guessing the priestly mercenary was the inquisitorial one? did you pretender get horror marked by an iten you gave him or something? and just for the record unless the commander is a very valuable mage or such its not really worth giving them trinketsand such (unless its a bow of war/spell casting itme or some such)
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
Yes the golem was a commander, by support I mean someone to heal him and weaken the enemies, cast enchantments etc. so he is more effective.
I wasen't sure about dominion. I thought higher would make it spread faster or something. Yes I had the inquisitor. He died before the end but was really helpful. Don't have any idea what happened to my pretender! Don't know what sort of item would curse him but if it says it does so in the description I don't think I made any. I gave my commanders skull talismans and horror helms mostly. Probably gave them some useless weapons since only a few of them actually fought directly. |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
IIRC, higher starting dominion increases the chance for each temple-check to succeed, so a high dominion is useful for those without priests.
You need to remember, though, that dominion has to "fill up" before it can spread further, so a higher dominion score also means it will take your dominion longer to spread further. Atleast, that's what I remember from all the previous "how does dominion work?" threads... |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
On the other hand, Ulm usually has enough money to build a couple of temples. AFAIK, each temple would spread the high dominion, even if it would first have to fill up the province it starts from. Also, every temple stops enemy dominion from going further, even if the temple province's dominion can be lowered.
There is a great document explaining dominion in great detail. I think it's on www.dominions-2.org, but I don't remember even its name ATM. I think you did quite well in the army department, and did use your mages quite well. The fact that you used a support mage with a Golem was also very good. Just learn to use and look out for your dominion a bit more. It also helps if you know what priests can do for you, and knew little more of the Evocation spells, but that will come with different experiences. You're doing very well IMO, especially for a first win. |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
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Lifelong Protection and Soul Contract give horror marks, and some armors and artifacts do as well. I suggest you download Zen's Magic Item Quick Reference guide (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/Illwinter/d2/6.htm) as it lists some of the unmentioned side effects... of course, it also spoils some of the fun, so don't read things you don't need to read http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif A unit with horror marks eventually gets attacked by a horror, which is usually fatal, unless you gear it specifically to fight horrors (they have high defense, are ethereal, and ignore protection - lucky coin + fire sword are a good cheap combo that will often keep soul-contracted Jotuns safe from horrors). Horror marks can also be a result of magic sites and random events (IIRC) and hostile battle spells, though. Never put horror-marking items on your god, even if (s)he is very powerful; it's just not worthwhile. |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
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Going to start the next game soon. (plz no horrors, plz no horrors) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif |
Re: Game #2 is over
Game #2: Arcocephale vs. Mictlan at Siltrock (great map!)
I was going to go with Machaka but I decided what the heck and picked Arco. The combination of astral and nature looked fun. Picked Titan for pretender. Spent a lot on magic but specialized in only 3 schools. 5 dominion, don't remember the scales but I think I had magic 1. Decided I was going to get tons of spells and try some global enchants etc. After getting used to arco's units and making some armies I put up gift of health which was neat. Killed the dragon at Siltrock which was a lot of fun. Once I took his province and could train Trogs, Mictlan was in a world of hurt along with all the remaining indies. I don't know if it's just that Mictlan AI is weak or I dominated that much, but they hardly did anything the whole time except build armies. I made it a priority to take as much land as I could ASAP. Maybe that cuased them to turtle as they only took 5 indie provinces then entire game. The only thing Mictlan ever did that cost me was casting over my enchantment Eyes of God or whatever (for seeing all the provinces) I made it a point this time to have a prophet ASAP. Trained atleast 5 priests and built 4 temples. Did much better with dominion this time. Even though Mictlan didn't do much I think it would have been good enough to hold my own against a more aggressive dominion. Went crazy with research. By the time it was over I had atleast lvl 5 in everything except blood. Built 3 big armies, loaded them with support mages & went right at Mictlan. The whole show was over in about 5 turns from there. There was 7 battles, 6 of which I won. The battle I lost was a stupid mission to see if my golem could kill their prophet who was lightly guarded on an island. The golem didn't quite live up to what I thought based on the items I gave him. He lasted a looong but didn't deal near as much damage as I thought. All the other battles were very easy. Think I only lost 20 something troops all told. I usually set up battle fortune+weapons of sharpness and then launched into attack magic. Trogs are some bad dudes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif Spirit Helmet is nice too. Game was over at turn 49.http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/6337/arcbt17jx.jpg I hope the next game is much harder. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (and no horrors killed anyone this time lol) |
Re: Game #2 is over
congrats dude (that fight looks a little bit one sided though :p
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Re: Game #2 is over
yes, it was just a tad one sided http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
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Re: Game #2 is over
ever tried a golem with hammer of the mountain and a few attack boosters under cb 5.2? with astral weapons he does like 120 AN damage (ultimate sc killer if hes loaded with attack boosters)
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Re: Game #2 is over
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Re: Game #2 is over
how did you guess? but against some bigger scs its needed (or else they would flatten him)
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
Oh but I disagree, horror marking your god or prophet can be fun, and gives you something to do once you've stomped the AI and are experimenting. I'm trying to capture Ashen Angels and horrors. Problem is my arch angel and his guards kill them too quickly to to capture. I horror marked my PG (all 12+, natural, no wishes) because my cyclops looked so cool in the robe of the magi. I'm trying to find the right spell setup to capture the buggers. Wow, to have an army of AAs and Horrors! Unfortunately I've reduced my remaining AI opponent to the stoneage so I'll have to build him up so I can have fun with him again.
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
you can't capture them
I've tried, they disappear after combat, even if you hellbind heart them. Might work with enslave mind, (be sure to have lots of penetration gear) You can wish for them, however. even wished for horrors have something like a 10% chance of dissapearing after combat, from my experience. |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
wishing for a doom horror is fun (or king of the world if you dont like bad events) as is wishing for combat pretenders.
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
Fallen Angels are somewhat similar to the Ashen ones... and there's always R'lyeh and the Void Gate. Vastness is another nastty bugger.
EDIT: Replaced Voidness with Vastness. Thanks for pointing it out, shovah! |
Re: I have never won a sp game...
by voidness do you mean vastness? if so yes he rocks (especially with gift of reason cause then he has 2 misc slots)
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
a vastness is quite nearly a doom horror, but without the barbarian invasions
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
Bad Events?
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
Doom Horrors live up to their name... Whereever one is, bad events can occur. They do it on their own, regardless of your fortune/misfortune setting.
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
just dont summon them near a big cursable army
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Re: I have never won a sp game...
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