vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

I've tried out using vine whips under 4.0, but they don't seem to entangle the defender. The whip is hitting (it always should because of the AOE, right?) because I hear the "whip sound" and see a reduction in hps (I think), but the entangle animation (a la tangle vines) doesn't display nor is the defender's defence lowered.

Anyone know how the vine whip is supposed to work?

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

QM - what was the intention with the change to the Wraith Sword?

Cause I've just finished up my third or fourth game using 5.0 and I'm surprised to hear so little in this thread about it? I tested it out with a load of SCs and its really quite weak now. On more than one occassion I saw militia (militia!!) survive hits from the new sword. I was astonished!

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

that just sounds wrong, WRONG! militia being able to survive hits from any magic weapon with decent strength behind it is just plain wrong

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

it does 9 armornegating nostrength added damage. So you will always deal 9 damage if you hit regardless of strength and armor.

Reasoning behind this is that it´s sort of an ethereal blade(hence the name wraith sword) that has a life of its own, so armor offers no protection, but you can´t swing it harder with your strength.

So it´s a good weapon vs SCs/Thugs with high protection, but pretty useless vs masses of troops. The damage might be a bit low, maybe 12 damage would be a better value.

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

12 does sound a little better as an etheral blade should be able to take out regular people (still prefer my golems with astral weapon though)

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

Right. But even armor negating checks are opposed, arent they? So it would be 9dam +2d6oe vs 0prot +2d6oe. Which means you only have less than a 50/50 chance of killing a regular infantry unit with 10hp.

Im fine with it being no strength add, but its rough that you spend 15-20 gems on a weapon that cannot even reliably kill weak units. 12 damage would make it kill regular pretty well I guess. So yeah 12 or 13 dam would make it good vs chaff inf and ok vs elite inf. That seems ok.

And as for it being a specialized SC Killer... I dont really see how? Ok so its armor negating... but if you really want to kill an SC, an anti-SC with high str and Gate Cleaver or a multiplier weapon (like Herald Lances/Flambeau) will do far more damage.

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

exactly, just take a few commander, give him a gate cleaver, winged shoes, and burning pearl and ring of the warrior and send them at someones SC, with high attack and huge damage the sc is basically dead from the start, or you could stick a gate cleaver on a nataraja and give him a hell sword aswell, mega anti sc

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

well the thing that kills should be the fatigue effect, which stays unless the SC has some sort of fatigue recovery and eventually the SC should be overwhelmed by your accompanying troops. Specialized weapons should always be better than a weapon that is generally effective, so no problems with flambeau or herald lance.
The gate cleaver is a very good weapon, but earth gems are very precious and the att/def stats are pretty bad and it wouldn´t be as effective vs masses of cheap troops as the 12 damage wraithsword.

So hopefully the wraithsword will turn out to be a weapon that will be ok all around, but beaten by specialized weapons in their respective specialities.

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

wand of wild fire is showing up as a sceptre of authority in the weapon slot

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

This is not a mod issue, nor can it be fixed with modding.

On the vine whip, making it area of effect seems to have broken it's vine ability. Same with the star of heroes anti-armour ability. Next version should correct these by finding a different way to boost them.

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

Damn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif There goes one strategy out the window. AOE + entangle seemed like a powerful combo.

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

9+2d6-2d6 actually, but it will average at 9 damage.

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

Well... only if you are thinking about it only from the offensive point of view. I still remember the first time I put a vine shield on a tartarian and attacked a triton province. It's pretty close to the same thing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Sill

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

how about something that radiates heat with charcoal shield, vine shield and chi shoes/horned helm (to attack)

Re: vine whips in conceptual balance 4.0
 

Its been awhile, but the false fetters morning star got AoE in this mod? I don't think that worked, either.

All in all this is totally a great mod, and nearly everyone agrees since almost all mp games that I've seen posted use it.

Heroes in 5.1
 

Ouch! Is it really intentional that some "heroes" have a morale of _8_??? Broken Empire Ermor gets Zirru the Grand Thaumaturg who's fairly decent - but I find it hard to believe that any national hero is supposed to have morale 8. Unless maybe they're hobbits, or otherwise mentioned as being cowards. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Heroes in 5.1
 

no it doesn´t make much sense. He has a morale of 7 actually in the base game and I overlooked that incredibly low score when making the hero mod. Should be fixed to 13 or 14 if a new version gets made http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif . Thanks for pointing it out.

Re: Heroes in 5.1
 

Yeah, I checked it last night and even in the base game he comes with 7 or 8. Think it's a bug of sorts.

Re: Heroes in 5.1
 

Any idea on when an "official 5.1" may be finished? Q.M.? Not badgering, just wondering if it's in the works.

CB 5.2 released
 

The attachments on first two posts have been updated to the latest version. Readmes are still unfortunately 5.0 until Edi returns or someone takes up the project.

Highlights of 5.2:

*Boots of flying bug fixed

*Vine whip and star of heroes rebalanced, no longer AoE

*Hammer of the mountains now 100 damage unique artifact

*Minor nerfs to vine people (men and ogres slightly less prot, ogres and kings slightly less HP, kings cost slightly more)

*Treelords once again immobile

*Supplies and resources somewhat more common

*Amulet of vengeance, knife of the damned, star of thraldom, star of heroes, horn of valour, whip of command, and champions skull are all now trinkets

*Wraith sword is now 15 damage

*Wyverns are now 5 gems

*Demon Jester's AN weapon toned down to 1 damage

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

yay, new CB! i like the sound of hammer of the mountains now (it+golem+astral weapon=dead SC)

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

Sounds like some excellent changes. Thanks for the work, and all the discussion and testing that went into it.

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

Unless going against a 30+ defense SC - whiff! Whiff! whiff! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

Cool! Thanks Quantum - have a happy new year!

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

There appears to be a bug with resources in the new version. Troops that one should have enough resources to build remain in the queue. Watch this space for details, and for 5.3 (sigh).

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

I have not been able to re-produce the problem though, so until more people encounter it I'm just going to ignore it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

I had it happen again in a test game today. The problem may not be resource-related though. I found a loremaster site, so I of course recruited one. Loremasters only take 1 resource, and the province had 22, but the Loremaster didn't show up until the turn after he should have. Perhaps its actually gold calculations that are being interfered with in some way?

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

or perhaps something such drained your gold in such a way that he was unable to be produced? (i dont see how though since you pay for him during your turn)

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

Unrest wasn't over 100, was it?

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

Not sure if this bug is associated with this version of the mod or not, but the Totem Shield appears as Leather Shield in the text part of a commander when when it is equipped.

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

IIRC that's an old error in DOM itself.

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

never noticed it (dont have a big thing for trinkets)

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

I got a totem shield from a random and wanted to try it out... you get all sorts of cool stuff when you take Turmoil3 Luck3. Once I got two "you found an item" events in one turn and they were Dwarven Hammer and Soul Contract http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

a free soul contract. you lucky dog

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

Ooh... I'll tell my Story of Woe, once more!

Post#323415

It includes me losing the turn I get two Great Treasures, with a full deck of SC equipment already forged, and without Arch Devil as I was few castings of Summon Imps short, and then lacked a booster. Robe of the Magi would have been REALLY useful if I hadn't died out that very turn! [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img] http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

I think the most pressing issue is that a gift of reasoned vanhiem moose only has 2 misc slots. what are they carrying their bows with!

I have reasoned it out, they should get mounted commander slots, with an extra pair of hands and a head, the reasoning:

The one driving the moose would be the one an enemy would need to take out to take out the entire moose. (or the moose itself) thus the unit would benefit from the driver's armor, just like a knight or mounted commander does. however, since there is a passenger, they should be able to hold a second bow (as the do) and wear a second helmet.

dang it I want a kick *** black hearted moose assassin!

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti...

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

Heh. Got a staff of the elements once, and often things like staff of storms. Turmoil / Luck / Magic is great fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

Indeed. Pity Ulm can't benefit from it... They could really use the constant rain of trinkets and gems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

is the moose stealthy? if so a black hearted moose would be fun (give it some precision items and 2x black bow/etheral cross bow/bow of war :p)

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

it is stealthy, but it only has two misc slots and nothing else, as it rests in CB 5.1 anyway

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

yea, i still want my feeble minding instant killing moose assassin. i think they should make a recruitable moose commander, stealthy or not (i really want to load up on bows of war and FLAMING ARROWS :p)

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

Could always empower the moose assassin with air or nature so it could cast Aim / Eagle Eyes after you GoR it. Not to mention prophetizing it - with F9 the kick and antlers would both get the AP bonus damage. Maybe F9W9 prophet moose assasin. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

No realli! She was Karving her initials on the møøse
with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given
her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and
star of many Norwegian møvies: "The Høt Hands of an Oslo
Dentist", "Fillings of Passion", "The Huge Mølars of Horst
Nordfink".

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

Vanheim's Asynja is back to her old A2, rather than S1 N1 as in previous versions of CB. Is this intended?

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

V5.0, there was separate mods that could be turned on for nations, etc, but V5.2 there's only one file containing everything. Isn't there supposed to be separate mods still?

Also : Turin's hero mod had Arco's Orokestes with a small (10 or 20) forge bonus, which he doesn't have currently. (Anthromachus lost his immortality at the same time, but that's back now.)

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

The Orokestes change was intentional, I just didn't see the thematic argument for a forge bonus. Asynja was also intentional, though I'm still not entirely happy with her.

The split mods are still available in the same place, they are updated to 5.2, IIRC.

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

well I gave the orokestes the forge bonus, because it says n his flavour text that he had a long search for knowledge and learned a lot of magic, so more efficient item forging fits.

But the main reason is that the forgebonus makes him an interesting hero. Base game he is just another mystic with priest levels. The priest levels are mostly useless and lots of one path magic makes him most useful as a researcher. So he is just plain boring.
With the forge bonus he will play an important part in your game, because you will want to figure out how to best equip him with boosters to forge your important items and he will generally play an important role. So he suddenly becomes interesting.

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

and then give him a dwarven hammer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: CB 5.2 released
 

I'm with Turin, even though I usually don't like to play Arco. Without the bonus, he's little better than any of their other mages; with it, he's.... heroic, and you're glad to get him.

That "Glad to get them" feeling was what I really liked about Turin's mod. I'd almost rather see them split back out, and load Turin's heroes separate from CB.

And hah! Two days ago, www.dominions-2.org only had the 5.0 version of the split CB mod - I DLed it and looked inside, but now it's updated. Thanks, whomever.