Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

Some threads (like this one) are haunted and haunting! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif
When you get started with the next winSPMBT update (if not already) and if/when you reexamine OP fire mechanics,can you consider the possibility of MG's OP firing tanks carrying tank riders?
Relevant discussion:
http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...o=&fpart=1

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

There's a simple solution. In real life, tanks rarely waste SABOT or HEAT ammo on targets like trucks and jeeps. Tanks could just be made to fire <i>only</i> MGs on thin-skinned targets. This way, main gun ammo is not wasted, and light targets are only killed when they get too close.

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

Two cents...:)
I've read the posts. I have to agree with Artur. I'd like to see some player input as to what targets are to be engaged by what units during op fire. But I would also like to see repair/recovery units....hehehe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

Thanks RAEME_Dave! There is always some hope...

Artur.

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

After reading thru this string I have to agree with arthur. I would like to see some attempt made to limit or eliminate the ability of using up your opponents Op fire with low cost units. I have to admit I am guilty of using this to some effect........I use BT-7s or other light vehicles......not jeeps or trucks........

I would adjust my playing style to adapt to the new changes which I believe would make an already fun game to play even better.

Also can you fix the assault gun vs turreted AFV's issue while you are at it.

Jadpanther(WW2 SP addict)

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

Many thanks Jad!

It is good to have the support of an Elite Blitz player!

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

I've seen pretty good arguments in this thread. And I've seen some pretty ridiculous, totally off-point ones. Finally, had to register to make my one and only post on the subject.

I prefer the period and the weapons of SPMBT to any other in the series at least ten to one. I looked forward to a Windoze-compatible version since I bought my first computer with it's completely non-SPMBT hardware. No one was more excited to download and try it than I. To this day, I absolutely LOVE the OOB hacking and editing.

But just before I signed the check I played a few games and suffered the greatest disappointment of my gaming life. The one shot - one kill approach to combat resolution is deplorable, but I could deal with that for a while. The lack of any control over my units' OpFire is simply a deal breaker. I played the heck out the game for about a week before the effects of that gigantic flaw completely killed any desire I ever had to play the game.

I caught some flak from friends who heard feel the same way about it. They had to listen to me rave about how the game was coming out and how I had to have a copy and how we all had to play it. All four of us downloaded it as only an interim "fix" until we could pull the new CD's out of the mailbox. All four of us played the heck out of it for about a week, played it almost as much for about a month; and now don't play it at all.

Could some sort of OpFire fix be given to the AI? Sure, with enough time and hard work. Would I want the job? No. I decided in the 80's that any sort of computer programming was nothing I ever wanted to even be near.

But so what? SCREW THE AI!It could always be an option to be turned "on" or "off". Making it so would be the easiest part of the job. But who cares? Even if the AI never got a better OpFire management routine, why should PBEM players have the game made totally unplayable for the sake of an idea that the AI should have as good a setup? Does that mean that it is unethical to use superior forces from a "better" country to beat up on the "poor AI"? Why? The AI is nothing more than electrons I bought and paid for myself. (OK, so actually I only to get to rent them; like air, water and beer, but the principle is the same.)

Arguments about if it is or isn't historically correct to have forces who are too stupid to pass on a tank to shoot at an empty jeep and whether or not it is somehow "wrong" for the human player to have something that the AI doesn't completely miss the point. The AI doesn't buy games. And neither do people who've found it unplayable because of the uncontrollable OpFire.

And as Forest said, "that's all I have to say about that."

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

Hi jd38011 ,

only three remarks:

1. The OpFire routine is improved in the WinSPWW2 (1.1b patch). Probably, whenever and if the developers will make a new patch for WinSPMBT, you may also enjoy the OpFire upgrade.

2. For the moment try to play with the reaction ranges of the units by setting multiple defending perimeters in such a way that the exterior one will deal with anti-infantry threats while the interior will defend against armored units. This way, your strong AT elements won't spent their OpFire on not appropriate targets.

3. Download the free WinSPWW2 version and test the upcoming (29th of July) ANZAC campaign because I am sure that there you will find all the challenge you seek.

cheers,
Pyros

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

I'm rather on Artur's side here.
Either the Camo team should claim that they don't think there is any problem with OpFire, but that's a hard stance to keep given than practically there *are* problems in 80% of the OpFire cases we see in SPMBT or SPWW2, else I would be glad to see the team have a more constructive approach than "it requires too much work/AI programming" and so on.

The "target type" ideas here are quite good - in fact that's how it works rather well in Combat Mission or EF/WF series. If the AI can't benefit of it because it's too long/difficult, we would at least solve the problem in pbem as jd38011 pointed out.

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

Just got an idea - what about sectors of fire? Say that you'd be able to set the vehicle at the end of the turn to face the selected sector and would OPfire just targets coming into it uless target's say under 10 hexes?
OK, can be achieved by limiting OP range and firing controlled shots just in the player turn. Would be harder to implement than it's woth it. Just been thinking loudly and it's late and I haven't posted here for a while anything so I'd post it anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

And never mind the bollocks, OP filtering is here!!
I understand it´s an unfair advantage against the AI, but it would absolutely improve PBEMs in such a terrific way. Thanks again Camo Team!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Regards
Robert

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

It doesn't give an overwhelming advantage, and scenario designers can filter ai opfire as well.

But yes, I was very suprised when this was announced a few weeks ago. I didn't think it would be possible.

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

I also would like to support Artur's proposal - I have had the same problem with OP Fire as other posters and it has often killed the enjoyment of the game completly as I only have time for short AI-battles. I actually over the years have played TACOPs more given its ROE setting and the ability to target types. In game I always end up turning engament ranges down to a minumum so I can direct fire, which of course is meanigless when i have limited visibility and a great target scoots by in the AI movement phase.

I also have to say that the Camo teams willingness to look at the matter despite the coding complexity is laudable. It is certainly a difficult matter but also, IMO, a decisive gameplay issue.

OTOH some of the comments posted here have not been as sensible as those from the Camo team. While some points, such as "out of contact" units engaging on their own targets of opportunity is a truism, it is irrelevant as this, too, is a great failing of the game engine (which however applies to ALL comerical games that I am aware of)that can hardly be expected to be fixed. To suggest however that any armoured commander in a prepared and concealled position will fire on dismopunted infantry and such at long range b/c "they might have TOWs" while in a potential tank-heavy enemy enviornment is just silly and has nothing to do with RL or any actual SOP.

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

you realize siddi, that for CD owners there is now bonus opfire filtering. you can turn opfiring at infantry to 100m or 50m.

Re: Improvement proposal I - OP fire draining
 

no, i didn't..thanks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif