Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Baltar could just be crazy. He suggested as much when his "Mind 6" showed up originally. The more we see the more I suspect it's true.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

So this elaborate story is all in his mind? And solely written to explain his eventual governance of the Cylons? I think not.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Who said Baltar will end up governing the Cylons? Was that in the spoilers somewhere?

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Black_Knyght: "Anybody else think that maybe this isn't a Cylon thing, but that someone, something, else is doing this ??? Some as yet unknown third party, perhaps ???"

Of course: the show's writers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

[Spoilers]

Seriously, though, the writers can pretty much make up whatever they want. A Cylon, for example, is supposedly anatomically indistinguishable from a human, yet he can transmit his entire "mind" elsewhere at the instant of death. Sharon/Eight can interface with human computers by sticking a probe up her forearm, but an X-ray apparently wouldn't reveal any connectors. The fact that Baltar has no detectable "chip" in his skull means nothing; Six might have extruded some of her artificial neurons into his brain (e.g. along the optic nerve) and "wired" him that way.

As for Caprica Six, her "Baltar" may be a psychological artifact resulting from a conflict between her programming and her experience. Creating a "mind" more or less as intricate as a human's is an incredibly complicated process; the Cylons may have failed miserably to forsee the consequences of direct interaction with humans. The only remedy may be Ctrl-Alt-Delete.

Incidentally, with Caprica Six and Eight going rogue and maybe contagious, the writers seem to be setting up a basis for peace between the Cylons and humans, and one possible ending for the current series.

Six of Twelve? Eight of Twelve? Why do I get the feeling that Jeri Ryan may guest star on a future Galactica episode? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Speaking of guest stars, what number was Lucy Lawless character in that episode where she played journalist interviewing Galactica crew?

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Number 3. As far as I'm concerned, the Cylons could have stopped right there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

I think its all just an illusion, a made up adventure designed to captivate audiances around the world with a story of human stuggle against impossible odds.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Indeed.

At the end, we will discover that everybody is still hooked up to the matrix, and the Cylons just let the humans think that they had escaped, so that they don't really try to escape.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

From the original series, I believe. I don't remember if he got full control, but he did boss around quite a few chrome-domes.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

As far as I know in the original series he was originally executed after the Cylons had no further use for him, however they changed that soon after and he became a sort of advisor for the Imperious leader who was hunting the Galactica. That Imperious leader was destroyed, if I remember correctly its base star was ambushed on the surface of a planet, and he became the leader of the cylons hunting Galactica, with the help of Lucifer, a Cylon assistant.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Well, aside from the fact that it wasn't clear whether they were actually following Baltar or simply manipulating him to find the humans, just because it happened in the original series doesn't mean it will in the new series.

That being said, it's certainly possible that the Cylons in the new series could try something similer. And Baltar is so screwed up he might actually fall for it. But that still doesn't mean he isn't crazy and his mind 6 isn't some psychotic break.

Remeber how his Mind 6 reacted to the 6 they found on board Pegasus. It was almost jealous of Baltar making any sort of connection.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Ron Moore has stated he'll no longer be mining the original two series for storylines and plot elements. No War of the Gods with Count Veryevil Von Iblis, Cylon Spagetti Westerns, and Dental Chair Motorcycle Design from Doctor Zee.

With that laid out, time for spoilers....













Caprica Six's Baltar is definately a facet of her own mind. Her feeling of remorse about the destruction of humanity has taken form in the only human she loved - Baltar. Unlike the Six in Baltar's head, Caprica Six's Baltar hasn't revealed anything Six doesn't already know.

Six in Baltar's head, on the other, has revealed precise information about the Cylon's, Cylon religion, and so forth. On the other hand, Baltar could be really that brilliant and be making logical conclusions that play out in the Six delusion.




But I feel the more important question for BSG right now is how long until Pegasus looses this commander. They've already chewed through 3.

Also, we know that Gina's nuke will be used soemtime next episode or shortly after the start of season 3 against the Colonials, but RDM has stated Pegasus won't be destroyed any time soon repeatedly.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

It's obvious they won't lose this one. I mean it's Adama's son! I am sure he will have several near death experiences while being the commander of the Beast, but he has faced so many of those already it is just part of his life.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Good. Those "time-loop" episodes are pretty cheezy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

You'll notice those flashbacks in episodes aren't really flash backs. they're time loops. See, Doctor Zee is soo pissed at being fired and his dental chair being reposessed, he's creating time loops in the new series.

But for safe measure, I'd recommend spacing all dentistry equipment in the mean time - lest Doctor Zee gets his hands on one and builds another flying motorcycle.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Rumor has it that there will be no new episodes until October. I guess it is because NBC may be picking up the series. I for one hope this is not true. I have a feeling if it moves to NBC that they will destroy the show much the way FOX destroyed Firefly.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

I think NBC's been in there from the start. After all, don't they own the American Sci-Fi Channel?

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

I think you are correct. I don't necessarily mind NBC being involved per se, it's just that I wouldn't want to see them switch the show over to that particular network. Shows seem to go downhill after making such moves. But who knows? Maybe BSG will thrive on a big-time network such as NBC. Time will tell.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

You guys didn't hear? BSG has been cancelled, they decided too many of the characters are just out of touch with the youth of today. The new series? BSP (Battlestar Pegasus.) They are basicly going to retool the show, keeping some of the younger cast and have it be like "Friends" but on a starship......

I kid you not.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

I think I may have to find a really really big hammer if you say that again... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

I'd use a spoon instead. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Shades of Bobby Ewing ! We are experiencing a dream secuence !

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

You think that's what this is? It's kind of cheesy if that's the case. Sucks we won't find out till July.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

To jump a year in time ? Too much could happen during then - to many new adventures available to give a year up .Baltar falls asleep and a year passes ? - to gimmicky not to be a dream

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

And what's up with Adama's porn-stache? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

IMHO, it�s a dream ending. If you were looking closely when the nuke went off, it took out a big portion of the fleet. Which based on the head count could make their survival a moot point. And I can�t see them letting their guard down that way. They would have posted pickets all along the frontier to warn of approaching Cylons.

OR�.it could be a money thing. If money is tight, they could spend next year filming a gorilla campaign in the woods of west Canada and cut back on the rendered space scenes. They wouldn�t be the first tv show to do something like that.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

He's always had one - he can grow it in 3 days !

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Thermodyne: "If you were looking closely when the nuke went off, it took out a big portion of the fleet. Which based on the head count could make their survival a moot point."

Well, they gave the population of "New Caprica City" as about 39K. Allowing for skeleton crews on the orbiting ships, the nuke could have taken out nearly 20% of the fleet.

Thermodyne: "And I can�t see them letting their guard down that way. They would have posted pickets all along the frontier to warn of approaching Cylons."

Uh, we ARE talking about the Colonial military here. You know, the people who gave Baltar a functional NUCLEAR WARHEAD when all he needed was the plutonium, and then didn't even put a 24-hour guard on the NUCLEAR WARHEAD, even with at least one known Cylon on the loose, and didn't check on him from time to time to make sure he still had the NUCLEAR WARHEAD. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Strangely, though, the ships in orbit did seem to have their FTL drives spun up and at least one jump pre-plotted; they got out pretty fast when the Cylons showed up. With the dumbest humans marooned on New Caprica, the fleet is probably more likely to reach Earth now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif My guess, though, is that the series will focus on the New Caprica concentration camp, run by the now-benevolent Cylons, as a kind of "Hogan's Heroes" type show. Starbuck will play Hogan, and the Quisling Baltar will be the unfortunate and ineffectual Klink, running the camp for the Cylons. I suspect some poor Centurion will play Schultz, occasionally declaring in a robotic monotone, "I see nothing!"

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

So if we take the 39K number, what would the effects of surviving a nuclear war and several close proximity fission detonations have on them? That�s a lot of stray neutrons ripping through their DNA. Between the birth defects and the die off from long term radiation illnesses, would the society survive?


As for Baltar, how long would he be in office if he crippled the fleet? The story line would indicate that it would not be long. Not with the Cylons a jump away at any given moment.

I hope this is just a tease for next season and not a cost cutting measure. I for one do not care to watch this current bunch of bozo�s fight a terrorist campaign against the Cylons. And if it is a cost issue, then I guess most of the Cylons we see will just be humans posing as Cylons. Budget cutting has been the death of many a scifi series.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Typically scifi shows requiring location shots cost nearly twice as much as bottle episodes. Humanity is in a sorry state with a year of Baltar in the helm. plus it should be noted we have been jumping around on the timeline. At "Flight of the Pheonix" we stood at 3 months since the miniseries, Cain in Pegasus said it had been six months since the miniseries. Baltar's election took place roughly nine months since miniseries.

A full year skip, while killing a lot of storylines, does sadly make sense. The idea is to show that humanity has fallen back off it's guard again thinking the cylon threat had passed.

However, I still think this BSG was a waste of 90 minutes. Seeing the Orii ships in action in SG1 was a far more exiciting episode. (did you know if you stand one on end, it looks like a giant tooth?)

But lingering questions from Galactica

- The Brother Carville Duo's fate. I suspect rock-paper-scissors gets old after 380 days.
- Helo's Sharon's fate. I suspect she's in the brig given that Helo is replacing gaeta and that Adama will reveal her baby's fate to enlist her help.
- Tom Zarek and his motely crew of felons, rapist, and terrorist's fate. Richard Hatch is too money-grubbbing to loose galactica... AGAIN.
- Cylon/Human Baby now that the cylons are everywhere.

Did anyone else find it amusing the two cylon priest models were both really athiests?

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Almost forgot, Now that Adama has is moustache back, does anyone think he'll get the Wonderful Icecream Suit back so he can go drink red wine, eat a greesy burrito, and hit on the bar owner's wife again?

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

New episodes start in JULY on the sci-fi network.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Hmm, they are taking a break, I guess. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Love that series.


Btw. how many seasons does stargate have so far?

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

I believe Stargate is up to 9 seasons going on its 10th this summer.

I was rather put out by the way they rushed through the BSG final episode events. IT seemed like there was a lot more to see over the course of the last three episodes that we did not get to see. Time was rushed, and a lot of the story was lost with it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Baltar Bad.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

If you watched the teaser - voiced over by Six - it stated that new episodes of BSG will be in October. Atlantis and SG-1 will return in July.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Confirmed from scifi's network drones, BSG's 3rd season will be delayed for an october 2006 launch.

RDM has been under pressure to wrap up storylines this season plus the last half of the season since Ressurection Ship pt2 has been suffering in the ratings because of it.

I actually think holding the series to october is a good idea, they resume filming in a couple of months and I assume RDM wants the characters to age a bit instead of just cosmetically adding more hair to everyone.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Missed that.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

If the show is sufforing in the ratings its because of some of the very things I mentioned in the other BSG threads. Oh well, I still the show even if it does seem to have somewhat lost its self.

I think they are sufforing from "What do we do now?" Syndrom.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

One of the blogs from the creator/writers was that they went to a full season of shows. I.e. from 13 episodes in season 1 to 20 (or whatever the number is) in season 2.

He was stating that he felt the quality of writing went down due to the increased volume of shows that needed to be completed.

I haven't looked back at the BSG discussions on the forum because I typically have been watching the shows a week or two late because of my schedule and didn't want to read a spoiler.

That said, I did enjoy this season a great deal. They continue to write themselves into corners and then find a way out. Of course, every guest star is now a Cylon, until proven otherwise.

I also thought at the end of the next-to-last episode that we were going to end up with Starbuck stranded on Caprica *again* and was waiting for Sharon to put a couple of slugs in Adama. I think I would have preferred that to the handlebar mustache.

About the last thirty minutes being a dream - I don't think that the writers would do that. The only dreams we have had have been mixed flashbacks (Roslind) and obvious fabrications (the Chief's suicidal dreams). Dreams have been surreal and short. There is often music transitioning them to "let you know" that they're headed out of reality.

I think that the flash forward to one year of occupation on New Caprica is real. I think humanity will have to pick up the pieces again. Though I am a bit sorry that they didn't talk about going back to Old Caprica as a campaign item. My feeling is that that sort of information could have saved Roslind's presidency, even if she decided after consideration to not act on it.

As far as Baltar's presidential aides - Mr. Gaeta (who has always had a respect for Baltar's acumen)... and the blond and brunette ("Don't you ever knock?" - gotta love Gaius).

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

What kinda robbed the viewer of a sense of wonderment was when Roslen (sp) told Adama about the Tall Blond women like the one that accused Baltar of being a trator then dissappeared. To many fans that episode, the one where Baltar was accused by a 6 of being a traitor was really dream episode. The one in his head was teaching him a lesson, and now we all know that it was not a dream episode, that in fact it was real and that really damaged the show. It took away from the series in so many ways that it cannot be described in print. It was a bad call, that I am sure they will in some way fix later on.

The show goes on to be interesting. They did a lot to set up the political nature and under ground of the fleet only to throw all that away now. There has to be a greater plan in place or else we were just taken down one path, and then bam, sent in the oposite direction. I do not like shows that do that without a clear course.

When season one ended, it ended with a brillant cliff hanger. The first part of Season 2 was outstanding. The second half was not so good.

But I have faith in the RDM, and look forward to what he and his writing staff come up with for season three.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

When Pegasus showed up and had "Gina" 6 locked up as a Cylon, the Galactica crew all recognized her as a suspected cylon model. That pretty much confirmed that the previous episode with the Shelly Godfrey 6 model accusing Baltar wasn't a dream. There really wasn't any indication that it was a dream episode though. I'm not sure why people ever thought it was.

The only real question was whether the Mind 6 was somehow communicating with the Cylons and was working with the Shelly 6 unit somehow in a coordinated effort to teach Baltar a lesson. Personally I think Mind 6 is and always was a construct of Baltars twisted psyche. Shelly 6 was simply another 6 unit that was attempting to sow discord among the fleet by exposing/discrediting Baltar. Shelly 6 would have probably known about the other 6 models mission before the attack and that Baltar was the dupe that allowed the colonial defenses to fall. But she wouldn't have known about the Mind 6 that's been torturing Baltar ever since. He just subconciously has her using dialoge that makes it appear she is involved in real events, when actually she's just reacting to them along with Baltar.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

I don't think RDM is stupid enough to do a dream-reset episode. The whole point of BSG was to get away from the reset-button sci-fi mentality and get back to dramatic, allegory based stories.

Also, in a prior episode before pegasus, a picture of Shelly appeared as a suspect cylon with the other known cylons on a desk.

Also, about Shelly's disappearance, I'm surprised to see everything but the most logical reason for her disapperance. I've seen debates on trekbbs and gateworld where people say she vaporized herself, beamed herself off, was really a hologram, etc. But the most logical reason is that she knocked out the gaurds (most likely with an aerosol) following her and slipped off the ship before they woke up and the two guards following her lied about it and said she disappeared into thin air which would be accepted as humanity doesn't know the full extent of cylon technology.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

The human cylon models have demonstrated super strength and super endurance. It's not a huge stretch to think they can run much faster then a human. The guards are following her a few steps behind and she turns a corner and steps on the gas. By the time they round the corner she down the hall and around the next corner. Maybe only a few dozen feet the way the passages on Galatica twist and turn. Once she loses the guards it's only a matter of blending in with the crowd, or hiding in the vent shafts until the coast is clear and she can sneak onto a transport. From the guards point of view she dissapeared into thin air, but only because they thought they were following someone who could only walk/run at a normal human pace.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Or maybe she just dissapeared into thin air ...

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

Thermodyne: "So if we take the 39K number, what would the effects of surviving a nuclear war and several close proximity fission detonations have on them?"

From the mini-series I got the impression that most of the survivors were already off-planet during the initial Cylon attack. The ones Boomer picked up from Caprica were at some distance from the nearest blast and apparently made it off before the fallout started dropping. As I recall, Galactica herself took a nuke (near miss?) at some point in the series, but since the electronics came through OK, the ship must be well-shielded from radiation.

As for Baltar's nuke, the FX guys produced a pretty good simulation of an atmospheric blast engulfing nearby ships, but that's probably not what would happen in RL. Extrapolating from what I've read, I think the warhead would probably vaporize part of the Cloud 9 ship. Within this "atmosphere" the nuke would probably produce the usual radiative and blast effects, but the fireball would be no bigger than the ship and would dissipate rapidly at greater distances. I suspect the nearby ships would experience more damage from fragments and radiation than from blast. No doubt the fleet's civilian ships carry shielding adequate to protect against solar flares; I have no idea if this would be enough to protect against a nuke at a distance of several miles. Anyone on the ground, of course, would probably see some nice auroras in the following days.

Actually, it occurred to me while writing this that the fleet might not maintain a cluster formation while orbiting New Caprica. Ships closer to the planet than the Cloud 9 ship would effectively be in a lower orbit and gradually pull ahead; ships farther out would fall behind. Ships separated laterally would actually be in crossing orbits. My guess is that the fleet would form line, orbiting the planet like a string of pearls. In that case, Baltar's gift to #6 might not take out more than one ship.

Thermodyne: "I hope this is just a tease for next season and not a cost cutting measure."

I suspect the writers were trying to deliver a real shock to the viewers: fast-forward a year and then leave our heroes in an apparently hopeless position (again). If so, it worked; I was screaming "Jump, you idiots! Jump!" at the TV as soon as the Cylons showed up again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif I predict the fleet will stage a heroic (and hopefully plausible) rescue operation using Sharon's talents (again) and plucky Starbuck's military skills on the ground, before resuming the trek to Earth.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

I just watched that episode again and the ONLY person from Galatica's crew to "recognize" her was Baltar. None of the Galatica crew ever saw her aside from Baltar.

People rightfuly suspected that this was a dream episode, or in Baltars case, a psycotic (sp) break because the Six model in his HEAD, threatened him, then vanished from his thoughts at the exact time that he was accused by a then supposedly real 6 model of being a traitor. After he repented and gave himself over to "GOD", the supposed real 6 vanishes, the evidence against him is provem false, and the imaginary 6 returns.

It is widely, and again rightfully concluded, that the whole thing was a mind job. The six in his head was teaching him a lesson.

To now come out and say otherwise means that the Six in his head is something far more than an illusion and actually has physical abilities that can manifest themselves in the "real" world outside of Baltars delusions.

It was a mistake for them to erase the mystery of that episode by confirming that it was a real happenstance. Leaving the viewers to wonder about Baltars mental state was a far more effective method of developing his character than the avenue they just took in the final episode of season two.

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

My memory on that wasn't precise. It wasn't in the episode when Gina arrived as I thought, but I am pretty sure I do remember the scene Klivino mentioned where they had 6's picture on the desk with the other cylon models.

I guess that's one way of looking at it, but I don't see it that way. Inner 6 could be simply taking advantage of a situation that she has no actual control over and making it appear to Baltar that she is manipulating things. Much the same way that people will have bad things happen to them and they start to think that God or fate or the world has it in for them. When actually it's just a random occurance, or the consequences of their own bad actions. Baltars psyche is simply more complicated then the normal negative paranoia. Insteaed of thinking to himself, "Why is this happeneing to me." he's got this hot blond only he can see saying, "This is happening to you as a punishment for you lack of faith." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: BSG Discussion
 

I wouldn't mind having said hot blonde in my head. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif