Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

If you don't have anything against it (and if Illwinter won't get there first http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif ) I'd like to mod your idea into Dom 3 when the time comes.

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

Well, obviously I have nothing against it.
What's better than have my idea "come true"?

Although I would appreciate it if you notify me when you do that, so I can be part of the creative process http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (or if you don't like people getting in the way - observe the creative process http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif)

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

Sure, I'd need anybody to help me out with mythology, names and such anyway.

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

I'm not that much of an expert on the subject, but I'd definitely lend a hand. I'm sure the hebrew wikipedia will also come in handy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif (and if all else fails, I do have a bible teacher http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif (who is probably not going to like me much after my last test http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif [Which doesn't matter much, since as of tomorrow I am finished with byble http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif])
Also, I managed to find that post you were talking about.
Thank you, ability to preview messages in the search mechanism, and the comfortable easy to use search function of FF.
IMO my old description doesn't sound quite as cool as the new one, but that hardly matters http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

Well, I'm sure you know more than me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

So, now we just wait for the game... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

You can probably pre-work alot of it.
As far as I can see Dom3 doesnt "break" anything, it just adds to it. So you should be able to do a mod with descriptions, flags, and even most of the units. Then when Dom3 comes out you can look thru the added commands and yell "YES now I can fix that" to go in and make tweaks.

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

Well, that's true.

So, umm, Agrajag, do you have any idea what kind of units they should have, apart from "they should use copper weapons"?

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

I'm not so sure about that, Gandalf.
Wasn't there something said about changing the default resolution sizes of units?
That is, if a unit used to be 32x32 it will now be 64x64?

If that really is the case, then all artwork will have to be redone, in which case we are better we are better off knowing these things before we start.

As for units, to the best of my understanding most of the byblical armies were pretty much "militia class", there was no permenant army, troops were recruited when battle was looming, so I think the general "theme" would be very cheap units, with added "higher quality" units for balance and flavour. (I don't suppose you plan to make an accurate remake of byblical wars).

That said, in my opinion we should have several different unit "models" each with different armaments:
Milita Class (just a bunch of new recruits, unarmored, but 10 morale) with:
Sickle / Copper Short Sword / Short Spear / Scythe / Pitchfork / Club / Sling / Whip
Warrior Class (trained warrior, probably caravan guards and the like turned into soldiers, leather armor, 11 morale, better Attack/Defense than Militia) with:
Short Copper Sword + Small Copper or Wood Shield / Whip / Short Bow / Long Bow / Spear / Hatchet or Axe + Small Copper or Wood Shield
Holy Warrior (maybe something like temple guards, highly trained with copper/bronze armor and high attack/defense/morale, perhaps blessable) with:
Bronze Short Sword / Bronze Long Sword (no shield) / Mace (wooden shaft, copper head) / Spear
All with a Copper Shield.

Atleast that's how I vision them.

If I'm brainstorming, I might as well think of some commanders:
Levi-like(better name needed) - "High Society", the social elite, some priestly power (H2 or H3)
Judge/Warrior Judge - Those judges that bailed the Israelites out of trouble time and time again. Somewhat of a multiclasser, they have priestly authority (H3), are renowned warriors and leader (good stats, high leadership), but also capable of miracles (S1 for scrying-type mystical spells, or A1 or Elemental1 for pillars of fog-like spells)
Prophet - A true miracle worker, high priestly authority (H3 or H4) and versatile miracle workers (S1-3 for scrying mysticism and/or a few elemental picks for control over natural elements, maybe 1A1F1E+2?(elemental))
Religios Scholar / Son of a Prophet - Students of religion, little religious power (H2 maybe), perhaps stealthy.
Scout - Simple as that, probably even less well armed than other nations' scouts.
Warlord - Leaders-Tactitians, they are the ones who plan military moves. Decents stats and very high leadership, perhaps a morale boosting effect.
Maybe more as they come into my head, maybe less if you don't want them.

Heroes could be:
Samson Clone - Extremely high strength mini-thug (but probably no equipment at all, so not that useful)
Elyahu (Elijah in English AFAIK) Clone - A great prophet, H4 A3F3E1W1, can cure afflictions..


That is it for now, my mental well is dry, hope you like my ideas. (And even if you don't, these are just ideas, we don't have to use them)

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

I must say that I aprove the idea of units with whips/sickles/scythes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Perhaps Judges and Warrior judges could be split into two, one more mage-like and another more of a renown warrior? Though multiclassing is fine by me, too.

Giving astral to the prophets would allow them to participate in Communion with the Judges, and that could be a critical advantage for a nation with very light troops. Astral + elemental pics sounds good to me.

The Levis and Religious Scholars are kinda overlapping...but maybe we'll figure something for them. Maybe an elemental random for the Religious Scholar? Mist-pillar making must start somewhere. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Standard would be good for the commanders, at least the light troops would be inspired ones.

I also like the hero ideas, but I think that Elyahu Clone could have Astral. Astral + Elementals is very Arco-like I know, but Astral also allows the Angel summons which are very fitting to say the least.

I like it so far, if you get any ideas forward them to me.

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

I like where its headed. But lets copy it to its own thread

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

Done.
Though I'm still not sure everything will be compatible. (Hint: This is a good spot for some IW post saying wether modding, including new graphical sprites from Dom2 will be fully compatible with Dom3, and if not completely, then where will the incompatibilities be)

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

Did you look at the C'tis sprites that were posted earlier? They were 64x64 pixels. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

IIRC old sprites were 32x32, which could spell trouble :/
There is a simple solution, drawing the new sprites in 64x64 and then resizing them to fit dom2 (while still holding on to the higher quality originals).
This would mean that it is harder to draw sprites though :\

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

We already have 32x32 sprites in Dom2 mods. They can be resized to be twice as big. If proportions haven't changed, they can be used. New 32x32 graphics can be made just as easily as they could be made for Dom2. The difference is that it is hard to do AS GOOD sprites as we get from Illwinter and from the artistically talented.

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

The problem is when you resize 32x32 to 64x64 you get really ugly sprites.
Think about it this way, for each "original" pixel you get four "bogus" pixels, so image quality can drop rapidly :/
That's why I think the originals should be 64x64 and resized to 32x32 solely for dom2.

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

AFAIK, the size of the unit's gfx remained the same for Doms 3. I received a private message from Kristoffer a couple of weeks ago. As you know I will make a fantasy based mod for Doms 3 [It will be a "vanilla" mod with elves, dwarves et cetera.]... so I asked him about unit gfx possibilities.
He said that the max. size of an unit is 128x128. I think that was the same for Doms 2.

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

The units can't double in size, can they? They are drawn the same size as they were, or about the same size, judging from the screenshots. I didn't notice any spell effects being too big in regards to the units, although I don't remember any spell effects with the old sprites (lighting was old spell IIRC, but had new gfx). Any way, I presume that the mod sprites from DomII will look exactly like they were in Dom2 after they are resized to be twice as big. This is exactly what happened to e.g. the old Ulmish sprites drawn for Dom:PPP when DomII doubled the sprite size. They are uglier than other sprites, but that's not very noticeable until you have seen the Black Forest troops and realize what Ulm could have looked like.

My point is that even though old sprites made for DomII will look uglier when compared to the new Dom3 sprites, they won't look any worse as they'd have looked in a DomII game - if I quessed it right. However, recalling the Dom:PPP -> DomII change, so I'm pretty confident on this. Even more so than usual, when I argue just to prove my point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Pre-Ordering.
 

Well, the maximum unit size was 128x128 in Doms 2. as well, am I correct? This is the max. in Doms 3. at least, so you can have 32x32, 64x64, 128x128 sized units.