Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

That was my #1 beef with SEIV. It is certainly better in SEV, but since I can't claim a system other than by colonizing in it, it isn't 100% fixed.

Example - let's say I have a colony in System A, which links to System B containing no planets I can colonize, which links to System C containing a colonizable planet. Let's say the only route from A (or anyplace else in my empire) to C is through B. Clearly I'd be wanting to call B "mine". However, if AI enters B through another warp point and colonizes in it, now it's "his" and my colony in C is cut off. So, I'd still like to be able to claim B before that happens, thus precluding it.

Still, for the system ownership situation that applies 99% of the time, SEV is much better than SEIV.

I absolutely agree with this.

On the matter of seeing planets that so many people bring up - I actually like that because it slows down the land rush.

On the related subject of "seeing from memory", it looks from settings.txt like we have the option to set things by class, but I'd like the ability to set it by mobility. In other words to see things that can't move themselves like colonies, bases, satelites, troops, etc... from memory but not things that can move like ships & fighter groups.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

If you could claim a system simply by clicking on the map, wouldn't that mean some players would click on every system they found, thus overly limiting AI's with treaties?

(Don't actually know - Too many bugs in the demo.)

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

Then an Ancient Race could claim the entire galaxy during their first turn! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

I think it would be rather expected that you would claim any system you explored and which wasn't already claimed, as would the AI. I would that the AI could be programmed to launch a war of expansion against its (perceived) weakest neighbor if it ran out of planets to colonize within its own territory.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

I don't know - did that happen in SEIV? I mean, even though the AI wasn't constrained much by claims, there were Ancient Races and the ability to claim explored systems...

If it is an issue, the fix is easy... You could have to actually have a presence in the system at the moment of claiming - but by "presense" I mean anything including an exploration ship, not just a colony. Sure, Ancient Races would still have an advantage, but they already do - and if necessary that could be balanced by raising the cost of being an Ancient Race.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

You could claim every system you saw in SE4, but it didn't really mean much since it couldn't be a part of treaties. In SE5 it does mean something, so it makes sense that MM restricted territorial claims to territory you actually have a legitimate claim on.

As far as the exploration goes, people have pointed out that you should be able to see the planets, even if it's just with telescopes. That's true, if the other system is fairly close by, but think of it this way: There are a maximum of 255 star systems in a game of SE5. There are hundreds of billions of star systems in a real galaxy. So for every system that is connected with warp points, there are a billion that are not. Therefore, it stands to reason that even a "neighboring" star system connected via warp point might be so far away that you can't see the planets, only the star.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

You didn't have to explore a system to claim it in SE IV. (Having to explore a system first might have slowed down AI expansion, for one thing.) In multiplayer games, some people routinely claimed the entire map on their first turn, so as not to give away any information about where their colonies actually were. Other people didn't claim any systems, or rename planets, for the same reason.

And why shouldn't an Ancient race claim the whole map? They were there first, after all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

Or just as likely stopped posting because there's not much point hanging around a forum for a demo you didn't like.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

Well,

I've played with the demo a good bit more and it has grown on me, no doubt about that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I have some quibbles about the controls here and there. I really don't like the ship design where I have to release the component I have selected to switch between decks. The game should either drop the component when I click on something else or it should allow me to click with a component selected.

To make me traverse the screen twice to change decks is frustrating.

I offer that as an example.

I do like some of the menus, etc.

One thing I could not figure out, but that I thought was supposed to be one of the big changes for SEV was to have multiple construction queues on the same planet. I could not figure out how to do this.

I have always thought it a bit silly that one can't build a spaceship, a weapons platform, a facility, etc. concurrenty.

It would be like saying that the U.S. has to shut down all other manufacturing while we build a space shuttle.

There should be 4 queues on each planet.
Troops
Ships
Facilities
Units (or what ever it is called)

But over all the look and feel is growing on me.

I figured I should give a report since I started this conversation off.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

Just put multiple items on the construction queue and unused points will automatically bleed over to the next item.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

Hi Arthur,

But that is not my point. My point is that you should be able to build somthing on the ground (troop or unit) and something in the air (ship) and improve infrastructure all at the same time.

Having to do it in serial fashion makes things drag out...

I was really hoping for this in SEV

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

But exploration gives you a legitimate claim on it! You know, the old plant the flag and "I claim this land for the King of Bling" routine?

As currently programmed, the net in-game effect is that I still don't dare agree to treaties letting the squatters past my warships until I've got a colony in every system within what I consider my borders (or at least every one with a planet in it). I have to reserve the right to kill any colony ships I catch on my turf, or glass any colonies founded by ones that slip through. That limits the utility of the diplomatic system vs one where my legitimate claims would be honored by my treaty partners.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

It'd be nice if the space yard was.. a massive.. yard.. in space.. and had its own queue, seperate from the planet.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

You mean like a space station with a space yard component added to it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

I'm thinking something massive, with a planet SY construction rate, something too big to stick on a ship or starbase.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

Doable; an example follows. The values can be tweaked to taste, but what this does is make a 1,000kt unit that can be built, then sent into orbit, where it stays. The only thing it can carry is a single Space Yard component, and in combat it looks like a space station. I haven't tested it since the demo won't allow it, but it should work.

This goes into VehicleUnitTypes.txt (note the line maximum in space- this restricts the player from building a horde of these things):
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Vehicle Unit Type Name := Space Yard
Unit Texture Start X := 0.50
Unit Texture Start Y := 0.50
Unit Texture End X := 1.00
Unit Texture End Y := 1.00
Maximum In Space Per Player Per Sector := 1
Number Of Unit Capabilities := 13
Unit Capability 1 Type := Can Communicate
Unit Capability 2 Type := Can Be Scrapped
Unit Capability 3 Type := Can Self-Destruct
Unit Capability 4 Type := Can Be Fired On And Destroyed By Owner
Unit Capability 5 Type := Can Be Launched Into Space
Unit Capability 6 Type := Has Spaceyard Capability
Unit Capability 7 Type := Has Facing
Unit Capability 8 Type := Can Obscure Sectors
Unit Capability 9 Type := Can Be Deconstructed And Analyzed
Unit Capability 10 Type := Can Be Transferred While In Cargo
Unit Capability 11 Type := Cannot Move And Tracks Target
Unit Capability 12 Type := Can Be Mothballed
Unit Capability 13 Type := Can Be UnMothballed
</pre><hr />

This goes into VehicleTypes.txt:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Name := Space Yard
Short Name := Space Yard
Description :=
Code := SY
Vehicle Type := Space Yard
Maximum Level := 10
Tonnage Space Formula := 1000
Tonnage Structure Formula := 1000
Cost Minerals Formula := 500
Cost Organics Formula := 125
Cost Radioactives Formula := 125
Engines Per Move := 0
Maximum Model Size := 20.0
Vehicle TopDown Picture Index := 10
Vehicle Portrait Primary := [%EmpireName%]_Portrait_Spacestation.bmp
Vehicle Portrait Alternate := [%EmpireName%]_Portrait_Spacestation.bmp
Vehicle Portrait Default := [%EmpireName%]_Portrait_Spacestation.bmp
Vehicle Large Portrait Primary := [%EmpireName%]_LargePortrait_Spacestation.jpg
Vehicle Large Portrait Alternate := [%EmpireName%]_LargePortrait_Spacestation.jpg
Vehicle Large Portrait Default := [%EmpireName%]_LargePortrait_Spacestation.jpg
Vehicle Inv Portrait Primary := [%EmpireName%]_InvPortrait_Spacestation.jpg
Vehicle Inv Portrait Alternate := [%EmpireName%]_InvPortrait_Spacestation.jpg
Vehicle Inv Portrait Default := [%EmpireName%]_InvPortrait_Spacestation.jpg
Vehicle Inv Configuration Layout Primary := [%EmpireName%] Spacestation Layout
Vehicle Inv Configuration Layout Alternate := [%EmpireName%] Spacestation Layout
Vehicle Inv Configuration Layout Default := [%EmpireName%] Spacestation Layout
Vehicle XFile Class Name Primary := [%EmpireName%] Spacestation
Vehicle XFile Class Name Alternate := [%EmpireName%] Spacestation
Vehicle XFile Class Name Default := [%EmpireName%] Spacestation
Vehicle Texture Start X := 0.25
Vehicle Texture Start Y := 0.75
Vehicle Texture End X := 0.50
Vehicle Texture End Y := 1.00
Space Combat Maximum Speed Per Movement Point := 0.0
Space Combat Turn Rate Base := 0.0008
Space Combat Turn Rate Decrease Per kT := 0.0000005
Space Combat Turn Rate Minimum := 0.0001
Space Combat Acceleration Rate Base := 0.0
Space Combat Acceleration Rate Decrease Per kT := 0.0
Space Combat Acceleration Rate Minimum := 0.0
Space Combat Deceleration Rate Base := 0.0
Space Combat Deceleration Rate Decrease Per kT := 0.0
Space Combat Deceleration Rate Minimum := 0.0
Space Combat Banks When Changing Height := FALSE
Ground Combat Maximum Speed Per Movement Point := 0.0
Ground Combat Turn Rate Base := 0.0
Ground Combat Turn Rate Decrease Per kT := 0.0
Ground Combat Turn Rate Minimum := 0.0
Ground Combat Acceleration Rate Base := 0.0
Ground Combat Acceleration Rate Decrease Per kT := 0.0
Ground Combat Acceleration Rate Minimum := 0.0
Ground Combat Deceleration Rate Base := 0.0
Ground Combat Deceleration Rate Decrease Per kT := 0.0
Ground Combat Deceleration Rate Minimum := 0.0
Ground Combat Banks When Changing Height := FALSE
Number Of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Combat To Hit Defense
Ability 1 Description := Large size makes base [%Amount1%]% easier to hit in combat.
Ability 1 Scope := Space Object
Ability 1 Range Formula := 0
Ability 1 Amount 1 Formula := -20 + ([%Level%] - 1)
Ability 1 Amount 2 Formula := 0
Ability 2 Type := Ship Maintenance Cost Modifier
Ability 2 Description := Reduced wear and tear allow for a decrease in maintenance cost of [%Amount1%]%.
Ability 2 Scope := Space Object
Ability 2 Range Formula := 0
Ability 2 Amount 1 Formula := -50
Ability 2 Amount 2 Formula := 0
Number Of Requirements := 2
Requirements Evaluation Availability := 1
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement := 2
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description := Empire must have at least tech level 1 in Ship Base Construction.
Requirement 1 Formula := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Base Construction") &gt;= (1 + ([%Level%] - 1))
Requirement 2 Description := This vehicle cannot have any movement.
Requirement 2 Formula := Get_Design_Ability_Component_Count("Movement Standard") &lt;= 0
</pre><hr />

And this goes into Components.txt:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Name := Space Yard
Description := Ship construction component which can work on one ship at a time.
Picture Number := 8
Maximum Level := 21
Tonnage Space Taken Formula := 400
Tonnage Structure Formula := 1000
Cost Minerals Formula := 200 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 2)
Cost Organics Formula := 0
Cost Radioactives Formula := 500 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 5)
Supply Amount Used Formula := 0
Ordnance Amount Used Formula := 0
Can Be Placed On Vehicle Types := Space Yard
Can Be Placed In Ship Sections := Inner Hull, Outer Hull
Component Type List := Technological
General Group := Construction
Custom Group := 0
Number Of Requirements := 1
Requirements Evaluation Availability := AND
Requirements Evaluation Allows Placement := TRUE
Requirements Evaluation Allows Usage := TRUE
Requirement 1 Description := Empire must have at least tech level 10 in Space Yards.
Requirement 1 Formula := Get_Empire_Tech_Level("Space Yards") &gt;= (10 + ([%Level%] - 1))
Number Of Abilities := 6
Ability 1 Type := Space Yard
Ability 1 Description := Can construct with [%Amount2%] minerals per turn.
Ability 1 Scope := Space Object
Ability 1 Range Formula := 0
Ability 1 Amount 1 Formula := 1
Ability 1 Amount 2 Formula := 1000 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 100)
Ability 2 Type := Space Yard
Ability 2 Description := Can construct with [%Amount2%] organics per turn.
Ability 2 Scope := Space Object
Ability 2 Range Formula := 0
Ability 2 Amount 1 Formula := 2
Ability 2 Amount 2 Formula := 2000 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 100)
Ability 3 Type := Space Yard
Ability 3 Description := Can construct with [%Amount2%] radioactives per turn.
Ability 3 Scope := Space Object
Ability 3 Range Formula := 0
Ability 3 Amount 1 Formula := 3
Ability 3 Amount 2 Formula := 2000 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 100)
Ability 4 Type := Tonnage Repair Ship
Ability 4 Description := Can repair [%Amount1%]kT of ship tonnage per turn.
Ability 4 Scope := Space Object
Ability 4 Range Formula := 0
Ability 4 Amount 1 Formula := 200 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 20)
Ability 4 Amount 2 Formula := 0
Ability 5 Type := Tonnage Repair Unit
Ability 5 Description := Can repair [%Amount1%]kT of unit tonnage per turn.
Ability 5 Scope := Space Object
Ability 5 Range Formula := 0
Ability 5 Amount 1 Formula := 60 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 20)
Ability 5 Amount 2 Formula := 0
Ability 6 Type := Tonnage Repair Facility
Ability 6 Description := Can repair [%Amount1%]kT of facility tonnage per turn.
Ability 6 Scope := Space Object
Ability 6 Range Formula := 0
Ability 6 Amount 1 Formula := 150 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 20)
Ability 6 Amount 2 Formula := 0
Weapon Type := None
</pre><hr />

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

Phoenix-D,

That is just great!

Now we just need a mod that give each home planet one of these off the bat (unless the race chooses to not have space-realted tech at the beginning).

THanks

I'm pasting these to a text file for future use!

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

You might want to tweak the values and such- I didn't mess with it that much. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

HWs can't have these off the bat, as they're units. They'll also take up 1000kt of space, so unless the planet has that much room you won't be able to build them.

EDIT: Oh, and you'll need to edit the weapons as well; right now nothing can shoot at this since its a different unit type that none of the weapons have in their targeting lists.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

What's the Can Communicate ability?

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

Thanks for that Phoenix-D, im toying round with an idea for a mod and orbital shipyards were something I was after.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

"Can Communicate" means that it can make political contact.

In SE4, ships, bases, planets, etc can.
Minefields can't make political contact, on the other hand.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

Sure they can!

Its just very briefcontact.

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

Mines certainly do send a message, but even the smart bombs are not terribly good at making polite conversation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Growing concern - but optimistic
 

<font color="red"> R O T F L M A O !!! </font>


Ouch !!! Funny, and oh-so-true....