Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Saddness, what's the point of it then? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Well, if the unfettered stage were as uber as it should be, I imagine parking it on the enemy capital or likewise importent province could have some effect.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Huge number of attacks won't work because creatures can't attack multiple provinces without Quickness. However, AoE attacks would work. AoE life-draining attack would be NASTY!

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Im guessing by multiple provincesyou mean squares http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif. And i know they can only attack one square, thats why he needs big fear, a nasty aura and possibly a damage shield.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

I don't think even that counts for the Eater. Before i'd summon an Eater for 50 gems i'd turn them into 25 death gems and get two Banelords or 50 longdead horsemen or heck, 2.5 behemoths. If you can summon the Eater, you can summon all of those as well.
I think it's a pretty good hint that a summon is really, terribly weak if you can alchemize the gems it needs and get something much better for them.
Ritual and non-ritual spells are hard to compare, but i say the eater of the dead is hands down the worst summon in the game and very likely the worst ritual.

That being said, the stealth idea is pretty good imo. Make the eater stronger at independent size (give it some more HP, and better regeneration, poison cloud etc. basically a natural thug if not SC) make it stealthy (and still grow) and reduce costs to 15 or maybe even ten. So, compared to ghost riders it has the disadvantage that you can't artillery cast it, and it needs to grow a lot before it has comparable strenght, but the advantage is that it stays in a province and needs to be killed to regain control. (and you could use it in an army too. Theoretically) Imo that'd be a lot more interesting than just turning it into a cost efficient standard summon. It'd be fun to have some kind of near-unstoppable rampaging monster you first feed up to decent size, then let it sneak into the midsts of enemy territory and let it loose.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

I definately like the idea of adding stealth and making it spawn additional eaters when it becomes unfettered. As far as I'm concerned, the nastier the thing is, the better! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Hopefully CB will make the eater properly fearsome.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

I would love to see the eater of the dead start off like it does now and grow to insane power levels after eating enough and breaking free.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

The eater is stronger than two banelords, 50 horsies or 2.5 behemoths. This I guarantee you.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

And less controllable, and easier to magic to death.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

heh magic resistance 18 if I recall so not that easy anymore.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Your guarantee is not so strong... I ran some tests on the eater of the dead. It's stronger than 2 banelords without equipment, but 40 normal archers with no help killed the beast with minor losses(less than 10). Not mentioned, but still an interesting measurement. Viewing the battle I estimate 30 archers could even have won.
Then I tested those 50 undead horsemen you mention which slaughtered the creature... another test revealed even 20 of the undead horsemen easily killed the creature with minor losses(less than 5).

Another weakness of the eater of the undead from my testing revealed that only one of these can exist within a game. If another is summoned then POOF the other vanishes the same as the DJinn. No testing was done on the behemoth.

The creature has been improved from dominions_2 yet my testing rates it's value at only 11 astral.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Stronger in fight if it has reached his higher forms, yes. Better as a summoning? No. By that time he's near being uncontrollable already. Besides, i wouldn't put my money on the eater vs. the horsemen too soon, with the poor protection of the eater light lances hurt. And if we're talking eater vs. another summon not overall usefulness you can just summon a wight or two and let them kill the eater with a baneblade.
And i defninitly don't remember the eater being a really awesome summon in Dom 2, though he should've been if he's supposed to be decent in Dom 3 with twice the cost.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Go play arund with it. It has a few tricks up it's sleave that is not readily apparent.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

It certainly has the ability to confuse newbies, and make them post frustrated threads on Dominions3 forum. So expect a steady flow of very short threads complaining about Eater of the Dead. It's a passive ability, and the effect lasts for about 2 years. * **

* assuming that Dominions4 is ever made, it will probably take about 2 years.
** unless the creature description is changed in one of future patches to make its strengths more apparent

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Well it turns out it was bugged, so go play around with it some more after the first patch.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

I think you should run some tests of undead horsies against some priests since that's what's going to happen to pale riders at that stage of the game ... I didn't mean to put all those units in the arena and say, "ROUND ONE FIGHT!"

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

You did not say 50 undead horses verses eater of the dead, 20 militia and 5 priests. Your guarantee was eater of the dead was STRONGER than 50 undead horses... this was WAY wrong. Before you start giving your guarantee I recommend examining your exact words.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

I don't have all the knowledge you guys do, but my first experience with this creature was a real let down. I'll admit I didn't really know what kind of role it was supposed to fill, though. I'll try again after the patch, of course. I wish I could remember what killed it, but it was something surprisingly minor. I remember I sent it into battle with my obelisk pretender by casting stygian paths. The pretender just sat and cast bone grinding and other mean spells, but the eater got killed before the obelisk won the battle.

I agree it could use an aura. Leprosy was a cool suggestion.

=$=

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Let it eat a bit first. Pillage your province if you want it to grow faster. It is somewhat broken and lack some of its fun specials, but that is fixed in the patch.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

It seemed to be pretty random. It also went to an independent province, and joined the defenders. Light infantry and Unfettered fighting side by side really warms your heart. That might be just the disease aura, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

That's good news... I pray this trait becomes available to the mapedit and/or mod commands.
[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon47.gif[/img]

I have doubts the creature is worth 50_astral... even after feeding it to full growth.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Well during my last test if another eater of the dead is summoned the original vanishes, that's an achilles heel most other SCs don't have cursing them.
The 50 astral gems is a very steep price for a single unit which will eventually turn independent. Even tho the creature has become more powerful, I doubt it's worth 50 astral gems. I will run some more test battles once the patch is released which will include the larger forms for the eater of the dead.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

So anyone tested it out yet?

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Not reported yet. I'll see if I find out anything, but I'm not good at balance.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

I have, I was unable to find anything making it significantly more powerful.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

What are those insignificant things then?

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

QM hasn't waited long enough or fed it long enough. He probably chickened out and placed it in an unpopulated province before it became unfettered even.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Nope, I fed it all the way to unfettered, and sent it into battle in every stage.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Quantum didn't notice it moving on its own.


It is VERY hard to kill the Unfettered. When it's moving on its own, you can't ignore it. However, it still has few very big flaws:

1) It only does trample damage. It has very low AP for a trampler. Further, it can get Limp. It just won't kill things. They'll rout, of course, but that doesn't give it any corpses.
It will have MAJOR difficulties fighting ethereal, high-defense and/or regenerating creatures. Because it WON'T kill things fast, it might hit the turn 50 battle limit, and rout, and die.

2) It doesn't kill population. Pazuzu, Lord of the Plague Wind, has disease wind. Eater of the Dead doesn't. Making Eater kill population would fit it much better than a high-level mage that won't be spending ALL its time in enemy lands.

3) It starts battles with just 352 hp. I think that's due to even the Unfettered's base HP being 180. It does regenerate up to 1000+ hp pretty quickly.


It does have few nice abilities, though. Wonder how it "gets up to 1000+ abilities pretty quickly"? Hmm...

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...66728-temp.jpg

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

I'm currently at work...
Any screenshots of the unfettered stage and/or other stages?


So this independent travels to different provinces on its own? That can be dangerous if it tunnels back towards its creator.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Does a trampler also use their normal attacks at the end of their movement?

=$= Big J Money =$=

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

No, they do not. So Eater's bewildering array of attacks is no use because it tramples.

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Not entirely true, as it would use the bewildering array of attacks against creatures equal to or greater than its own size. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Not many of those around though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

There are lots of size 6 creatures the Eater would be terrific against. Unfortunately, those will most probably avoid direct combat, and instead send smaller Bane Lords or Wights to do their bidding. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

tested it with patch and its no good for 50 astral...30 seems about ok as a price.

that it goes independent makes it unique, but destroys the unit kinda. by the time you can cast it (conj8) you can win the game in many other ways. and this ione just is thorn in your empire sooner or later. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif why pay for it?

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

Because it spreads http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Eater of the Dead
 

lol, no chance i could see it, it attacked 6000 undead when i tested it, would be more user friendly, if it would not attack the province first it came from, but rather a province next to it. And maybe some AI to protect its own existence too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif