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-   -   Alexander's Ever-Expanding Tome of Knowledge, pt 2 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=32458)

Horst F. JENS April 16th, 2007 05:42 PM

small tips: micro-managed Elephants
 
not so cool like the Kraken, but maybe useful for new players (got this from dom2 thread):

If you get Elephants or other big units, your main fear is that those beasts rout and trample over your own troops.
Avoid that by placing an nature mage in the square over (north of) the Elephant and let him cast Beserk.
Set the Elephant on "Hold and Attack". Note that the Elephant will attack as soon as become berserked. If possible, have an Astral mage in the same square as the Nature mage cast Body Etheral and/or Luck.
Cast any buff spell that has short range and Area of Effect of 1 square.

You can replace each Elephant with 2 cavalry units.
Place mages in the combat squares north and south of each Elephants, casting buffs.
Enjoy the sight of unbreakable, etheral (75% chance to avoid hit) Elephants trampling over your enemys.

MaxWilson April 16th, 2007 06:06 PM

Alexander\'s Ever-expanding Tome of Knowledge
 
Combine a D9 blessing with a Shroud of the Battle Saint and Evocation spells. Falling Fires and Cloud of Death are already great spells, but usually don't do enough damage to kill a unit on the first hit. If the casting mage has a high Death blessing, however, they inflict enough damage to afflict an enemy most of the time. Weakness seems to be especially common, with Cripple, Battle Fright, and Lost An Arm making a showing too.

If you take an E4 blessing the mages in question also benefit from the slight boost to reinvigoration.

-Max

Sandman April 16th, 2007 07:20 PM

Re: Alexander\'s Ever-expanding Tome of Knowledge
 
SCOUT FERRY

Construction-2 has got two breathing items, the ring of water breathing and shambler skin armour. Using only three of these, it's possible to send an unlimited number of scouts, spies or assassins through underwater provinces to land on the other side.

Give one scout the shambler armour and two scouts water breathing rings. Have them travel underwater until they reach a land province. Once there, give all the breathing items to one scout, and have him travel back underwater, whilst the other scouts disperse. Repeat as needed. It's time consuming, but efficient.

HoneyBadger April 17th, 2007 04:59 PM

Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
Niefelheim is a powerful nation with great troops.

By far it's greatest troops are the Niefel Jarls themselves-and they're equally deadly against living and undead enemies.

You can maximize this ability by choosing an Imprisoned Cyclops with totally negative scales (make sure temperature is set to cold, because that only helps you).

You can then add those points to Earth (10), Water (10), and Nature (10) for a practically unstoppable bless. The extra 7 points go right into Dominion (3).
Perfect efficiency!

Don't bother with regular Niefel Giants-atleast at first.
Build up your gold and buy Jarls only-you won't have much gold to begin with, anyway, but that should quickly change.

Also, kill off your starting army by any means possible, because they're a really big money-pit in the early game, and if you keep them around they may get you killed before you get your first Jarl (the longer you go without a Jarl, the more chances you have to lose your Temple or Lab to bad luck, and that'll finish you in the first turns of a multi-player game).

Your first Jarl should become your Prophet. Use him to expand your domain, and he can also help maintain your Dominion. If the Arena comes around early in the game (like within the first 10 turns), stick him in-he should be strong enough to beat anything else in the game at that point, except for a really tough SC Pretender, and if he wins, he'll get 3 stars of experience and a nifty trident for free. At that point, he should be able to tackle most neutral provinces by himself.

Keep buying Jarls-you should soon have enough gold income to buy 1 every round, if you're lucky. At that point, start leaving some of the Jarls in your home-provinces to pray and to research construction so you can arm your Jarls and maintain your Dominion. Don't worry about expanding your Dominion very quickly-as long as it's strongly maintained in your core provinces, you should be fine, and your poor scales will really hurt you in the long run, so out run them with swift expansion until you can inflict them on your enemies' home provinces with your Jarls.

You may want to avoid provinces with lizardmen at first, unless you need the province for strategic reasons, because their shamans are really efficient at cursing your Jarls. You can build a small force of non-Niefel jotuns for this purpose in the later stages of the game. Skin-shifters are ideal for this purpose.

You should also start building scouts and creating a scout supply-train by equipping scouts with an endless bag of wine and endles cauldrons of broth, each, and then attaching them to your armies. This becomes easy once your Pretender shows up, and forging these should eventually become his main job-after he's searched your Core provinces for magic sites.

Your Pretender also makes a handy defender SC in a pinch, if you equip him, but don't risk him without a very good reason, because he's your main earth/nature mage and he won't be much better than a well-equipped Jarl.

Expect some of your Jarls to become Cursed eventually. It shouldn't hurt them that badly-they won't get hit that often, but it's something to be aware of. Counter with the Ritual Spell "Gift of Health" (Enchantment 5/Nature 5) which heals afflictions on your troops, en masse, and grants extra HP-infact, stockpile Nature Gems (you'll need atleast 50) and research this spell as soon as possible after your Pretender awakens. Horror-marks are somewhat more dangerous. It's a good idea by late-game to protect your Jarls from assassins with regular Niefel bodyguards and to equip your Pretender with a ring of warning.

Look for neutrals that give you sacred troops-especially sacred calvalry-they'll help diversify your forces, which can make you stronger, overall.

Eventually, you'll have more provinces than just Jarls can defend easily, at which time you can put expansion on the back-burner and start consolidating your forces/ strengthening your borders-you can use regular Niefels, in moderation, to suppliment your Jarl-and building up a couple of stronger attack-forces to hit neighboring human nations.

Build labs and temples in your most strategically important provinces so that you can place multiple Jarls there, and then get the full benefits of their research and prayer. Fortresses will let you build boulder-throwers, javelineers, skinshifters and huscarls on the spot-expensive, but quick-it may end up saving your province from the longest and worst attacks.

When you've got a surplus of cash, put one Jarl in each of your border-provinces to help out your PD, and keep expanding. Your Jarls are actually better defenders than they are expanders/attackers, since they can move over 3 owned provinces in a single turn, but only 1 province they don't already own-allowing you to quickly dispatch reinforcements to troubled areas-a very useful ability indeed. Build up squads of 3 or more Jarls-possibly with supplimental Niefel troops-in centralized locations within 3 provinces of your borders, so that you can ship them off to relieve defenders in case of attacks. Afflicted Jarls should go here too, and incase of a massive border collapse, these locations can also serve as rallying-points and magic equipment stockpiles for specialty items, like Gate-Cleavers.

Don't buy non-sacred troops, unless you have a good reason! like buying mages who have paths you lack (fire, especially) and reacting to strong attacks. Otherwise, they're just cash-leeches, given your bless and the horribly bad scales you have.

Good scripted level 1 combat-spells for Jarls are Breath of Winter, Holy Avenger, and (for some) Air Shield.

Some good combat equipment for Jarls (off the top of my head) are: horror helmet, sword of swiftness, rhyme hauberk, hydra-skin armor, fire plate, dragon helmet, amulet of magic resistance, wraith sword, golden shield of awe, ring of regeneration, ring of fire resistance, pendant of luck, storm bow, midget masher, boots of the behemoth, lucky coin shield, amulet of rejuvenation, amulet of missle-protection, wraith crown, and hellsword.

When you've conquered the land, amulets of water-breathing should be easy for your Jarls to mass-produce.

Even if they don't have the very *best* equipment possible, it's a good idea to improve the quality of your Jarls on a quantity basis. If you can't make swords of swiftness fast enough, give them piercers or ice swords. You can save the better, more efficient equipment you can produce later on for your experienced Jarls with heroic abilities. Don't worry *too* much about saving gems for the end-game, while there are some higher end spells which will help you, the lower-end spells will help your Jarls a lot too, and the only one that's a real *need* is "Gift of Health".

Sandman April 17th, 2007 05:30 PM

Re: Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
I don't think that would work. Using Jarls to research is hopeless, you'll never get anywhere.

HoneyBadger April 17th, 2007 05:49 PM

Re: Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
Nah, Jarls are great researchers. They've got like 5-7 points of researching ability each, and they can forge skulls pretty easily. On top of that, they can arm-wrestle a dragon, so what's not to like? If you really don't care for them though, you can always use Gygjas-it's just kind of wasteful.

Shovah32 April 17th, 2007 06:14 PM

Re: Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
Lets pay 500 gold for 6rp a turn! yay us... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

thejeff April 17th, 2007 06:23 PM

Re: Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
Yeah, build Jarls as thugs and use the other mages for research.
If you're not sending a mage out to fight, why is Gygja wasteful?

Meglobob April 17th, 2007 06:37 PM

Re: Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
Well...Honeybadgers method is extreme but it is very sound in principle. I am basically following a similar strategy in a MP at the mo. Basically why recruit inferior units? Just recruit purely sacred troops and have a massive bless, then the giants of Niefelheim can walk where they wish and none can stand before them, hopefully!

HoneyBadger April 17th, 2007 07:14 PM

Re: Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
That's what I'm going with here, that you not waste gold on mages you can pretty much *only* use for research. Why not use Jarls to research for a while, and then have more Jarls around by the end of the game, since you can only recruit 1 mage-type a turn from your home-province anyway?

Why use that single slot for a mage that isn't also a Jarl? Yeah it's great to recruit other mages at other provinces for research-go ahead. But in your home province, you've got two choices, a Jarl or something *Other* than a Jarl.

Sombre April 17th, 2007 09:50 PM

Re: Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
Why buy 'inferior' troops? Maybe because they're cheaper and make better researchers.

HoneyBadger April 17th, 2007 11:48 PM

Re: Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
Niefelheim doesn't really need that much better research, though. I mean, 5 Niefel Jarls with really good spells and 35 gygjas aren't going to do a lot better than 40 Niefel Jarls with mediochre spells.

thejeff April 18th, 2007 09:41 AM

Re: Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
No, but 20 Jarls out fighting and 20 Gygjas back home researching will do better than 20 Jarls out fighting and 20 Jarls at home researching. Especially since the savings on the Gygjas will let you buy more sacred Neifel giants to go fight with the Jarls.

The better research will let also let you equip the Jarls sooner, raising both their effectiveness and survival rate.

Gygja also have different paths and can thus you summon, forge and site search more than with just Jarls.

Manuk April 18th, 2007 09:52 AM

Re: Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
Don't worry, honey badger is in a Jarl-Rage state.

Graeme Dice April 18th, 2007 12:25 PM

Re: Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
This is why you build a second castle and lab early on in the game, so that you can avoid wasting your commander slot in your capital province on things other than Niefel Jarls, while still building researchers.

EA Atlantis should do the same thing to get as many Basalt Kings as possible.

HoneyBadger April 18th, 2007 05:18 PM

Re: Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
I'm not in a jarl-rage state.

When I go into a jarl-rage state, I turn blue and grow to 30 feet tall. I start singing, drinking mead, and killing things with battle-axes and giant swords. You don't want me to go into a jarl-rage state.

You...wouldn't like me...when I'm in a jarl-rage state.

MaxWilson April 18th, 2007 10:22 PM

Re: Niefelheim *Jarl-Push* Primer
 
[cracks up]

-Max

HoneyBadger May 10th, 2007 03:16 AM

bump
 
I'm just going to keep on bumping this until someone stickies it.

Edi May 10th, 2007 04:23 AM

Re: bump
 
It's not going to get stickied, period. Want an easy permalink to it, make one in your sig. There are other threads that are more worthy of being stickied, but aren't, so this one is not going to get any special treatment in that regard.

SlipperyJim May 10th, 2007 01:25 PM

Meat-Grinder
 
I don't think this would work for multi-player, but it's great against the AI.

Get "in his face" by taking a province near an AI opponent. If this province is a "chokepoint" on the map, that's ideal! Then defend the heck out of that province. If you have decent PD, buy as much as you can afford. If you have any commanders that summon allies (maybe even freespawns!), park a few in the province. Build a laboratory and set a couple of mages to monthly castings of some sort of cheap summon.

Basically, the idea is that the AI will try a big push with all available troops to kick you out of your province. If you can resist that push, then you can grind up an insane amount of your opponent's resources. Then, each subsequent attack will be easier and easier to repel. While he's wasting troops by throwing them against your unbeatable defense, your armies can conquer other provinces to add to your strength. He's stuck at a standstill, while you're still making progress. Guaranteed win for you!

A human opponent will figure out what you're doing quickly, and the trick probably won't work. But the AI seems to fall for it nearly every time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

MaxWilson May 10th, 2007 04:22 PM

Re: Meat-Grinder
 
I'll mention in passing that another reason it's easier to defend a chokepoint than to attack armies is that you have easier access to gems for big combat spells (Flame Storm, Rigor Mortis, Shadow Blast, etc.).

-Max

SlipperyJim May 10th, 2007 05:29 PM

Re: Meat-Grinder
 
Very true, MaxWilson.

To clarify: The point of the meat-grinder is not just strong defense. That's good, but it won't win the game. The point is to keep your opponent distracted and wasting resources while you are making progress elsewhere. He throws all of his troops into the meat-grinder. You capture provinces, search for sites, and generally build your empire.

Then you return and crush him when you have an overwhelming advantage. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Needless to say, this strategy works exceptionally well if you can combine it with some other strategy (or strategies) to strangle your opponent. For example, heavy use of spies, blasting his provinces with hostile magic, raiding parties behind the front lines, etcetera....

HoneyBadger May 10th, 2007 07:07 PM

Re: Meat-Grinder
 
Well then, Edi, I'll just keep bumping it into infinity.

MaxWilson May 10th, 2007 07:41 PM

Re: Meat-Grinder
 
<Ahem> While I'm all for keeping the Tome expanding, bumps should probably include a useful tactic, whether it's original or a link to one posted in some other thread. Like the Fog Warrior hydras, for example. Or the scorched earth hydras in the same thread.

(Personally, I largely ignore the stickied threads because it's hard to tell when there's new material.)

Army setup tip: if you're having problems with cavalry munching your mages, set the mages on the extreme lower edge of the setup box, with a squad of units in front of them and a squad of units directly above them. Since attack-rearmost will only cause units to move forward and laterally, not backward, and since it's impossible to place units further down than the bottom of the box, any cavalry will always run into one of the two blocking squads. This is better than a single large squad on "Guard commander" for a couple of reasons: your mages aren't in the middle of the guards (vulnerable to javelins, etc.), and they're also further away from the attacks ("Guard commander" guards sometimes get right in the same square as the mage unless they're size 4, which won't block attackers from meleeing your mage). On the down side, you need a commander in the middle of each blocker squad to anchor it unless you want to risk "Hold and attack," which leaves you vulnerable to "Hold and Attack Rear." You might risk it if you used "Hold and Attack Cavalry," though.

-Max

vfb May 10th, 2007 08:13 PM

Re: Meat-Grinder
 
That looks like a great tactic, Max. Another advantage of the extra commanders is that they have a chance to eat up assassination attempts (rituals or actual assassins) that might otherwise target your mages.

HoneyBadger May 10th, 2007 11:12 PM

Re: Meat-Grinder
 
Bumbs for this thread inevitably *do* include a useful tactic. Maybe not by me, but this one, for example, has garnered 2 so far. I'm going to keep bumping it because I feel it's a very useful, important resource that everyone new to these boards should have immediate access to, and if Edi won't sticky it, then I'll just bump it as a "good deed".

Foodstamp May 13th, 2007 01:29 AM

Re: A few small tips...
 
Quote:

Meglobob said:
Quote:

Foodstamp said:
Quote:

Meglobob said:
In SP you can gain a advantage over the AI by buying all the mercenaries and never letting any AI nation have any.

Simply bid 1gp over asking price and they will be yours, everytime. When it comes to renewing there contract you after bid full price again +1gp, to 100% guarentee you keep them.

The AI it seems only ever bids the exact amount...

When you get a mercenary commander with a magic item, consider sending that mercenary to his death in the last month of his hire. Simply place him up front on his own and give attack closet orders. Have your own commanders in the rear with empty slots, with a little luck you will pick up the magic item off your former employees rotting corpse...

The bit about bidding 1 gold over the asking price does not always work. It seems to work 99.9% of the time, but in an EA game I just played as Kailasa, I bid on the amazon archers with the pegasus commander 1 gold over the asking price and was outbid. Other than that one incident, which happened a few hours ago, I have never had the AI outbid me on mercs if I go 1 gold over.

Foodstamp, I have done this 100's, perhaps 1,000's of times now in Dom 3. It's never let me down yet. Perhaps due to excessive Dom 3 playing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif, you were tired and bid under by mistake?

This just happened to me again. EA game playing as Agartha. I bid 1 gold over the demanded price and I am absolutely positive I did it correctly. Ermor outbid me and got the mercenaries. The independents were Asparides (spelling?).

I was thinking, maybe this has to do with other nations getting special deals on certain mercenaries that fit their theme?

Ewierl May 13th, 2007 03:51 PM

Re: A few small tips...
 
Quote:

Meglobob said:Simply bid 1gp over asking price and they will be yours, everytime. When it comes to renewing there contract you after bid full price again +1gp, to 100% guarentee you keep them.

The AI it seems only ever bids the exact amount...

I'm with those who have definitely seen the AI make higher bids on mercenary forces. It doesn't happen too often, but neither is it all that rare. I find that I can keep my mercs 95%+ of the time if I put my bid above the minimum by about 50 gold.

Ballbarian May 13th, 2007 04:33 PM

Re: A few small tips...
 
At 6 gold over the minimum I have never, not once ever lost a bid against an AI opponent. Not in Dom2, and not in Dom3 (not sure about DomPPP since I only played the demo). Keep in mind that this is on normal difficulty and it may be a different story all together on higher difficulty where the AI gets gold boosts. The only time I have ever lost mercs was when I forget to bid. (Doh!) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

UncleYee May 13th, 2007 05:52 PM

Re: A few small tips...
 
Ever since learning about the 1G over trick, I've used it religiously on the harder difficulties, and I've NEVER lost a mercenary except by my own forgetfulness. And I usually end up with all 5 of them for much of the game. But that's just my experience.

SlipperyJim May 14th, 2007 01:45 PM

Re: A few small tips...
 
FWIW, I usually bid about 10% over the asking price, and the AI never outbids me.

Edratman May 14th, 2007 02:31 PM

Re: A few small tips...
 
When I first started I just bid the asking price and found that I had about a 50% success rate. Then I changed my method to bid 10 to 15G over the asking price and seemed to always win.

Then I read this thread, was impressed by successes people had with bidding 1G over and adapted that technique. I started to lose about half the bids again. I'm now at 5G over and to date I am back to 100% successful.

Wrana April 9th, 2008 08:19 PM

Re: A few small tips... - bidding
 
Actually, I had myself outbid several times while giving about 10 gold extra on repeat contract. I mostly play Imp AIs, though (but don't remember whether it was so in these cases).

Aezeal April 9th, 2008 08:22 PM

Re: A few small tips... - bidding
 
ehm is it just me or is having 5 mercs for a large part of the game just a waste of cash??? better train your own troops if you are just having them running around right?

I always thought mercs where to trow into the fray for quick reinforcements without having to pay them more than 1-2 times

VedalkenBear April 9th, 2008 10:48 PM

Re: A few small tips... - bidding
 
Aezeal: That all depends on the mercs involved. For the cost, the Farstrikers are probably the best mercs in the game, and I will happily keep them around forever.

The various Inquisitor merc units are nice because they give you a H2 priest, which is sometimes not even recruitable by the nation, and allows for 2 armies to move around both bolstered by Sermon of Courage.

Almost all of the mages, IMO, are worth their cost. Especially if you want to diversify, getting (e.g.) the Illusionist is much better than Empowering someone in Air just to try to find more Air sites.

Edit: Oh, regarding the actual hiring of mercenaries, I offer 5g over their asking price, and the only time I can remember getting outbid is when a nation has an advantage with that given mercenary troop. E.g., Fordo Boggit charges less to Ulm, and so AI Ulm gets them quite a bit. I don't think the AI is programmed to bid the lower cost they could, and so they 'overbid' by (in this case) 80g, and nab them.

jimkehn April 10th, 2008 09:37 AM

Re: A few small tips... - bidding
 
I never use mercs against the AI. It's a rule I have about SP games. I never use the mercs. It kinda helps a little against the AI, but you still always win. It just makes the early game a little more challenging.

Wrana April 10th, 2008 05:27 PM

Re: A few small tips... - bidding
 
To the list of mercs I would like to keep forever I would add Renegate sage & possibly all mages of Metal Orders (the same reason - research bonus). It also allows to diversify not only magic, but troops, too. Especially if you need/want to grab some underwater provinces... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

NTJedi April 10th, 2008 07:00 PM

Re: A few small tips... - bidding
 
Quote:

VedalkenBear said:
Aezeal: That all depends on the mercs involved. For the cost, the Farstrikers are probably the best mercs in the game, and I will happily keep them around forever.


I would rate the Farstrikers as good, yet definitely not the best.
Per cost verses value the best would be Orion and his band.
Per overall game effectiveness the best would be the air mage which has the large group of slyphs.

VedalkenBear April 10th, 2008 09:32 PM

Re: A few small tips... - bidding
 
Mm. NTJedi, you have a point, but Farstrikers are quite possibly available from turn 1. I don't think Orion is available until year 2 if not year 3, and the Sylph Mage is VERY rare.

Renojustin April 11th, 2008 04:44 AM

Re: A few small tips... - bidding
 
I've seen the Sylph Mage quite often, I'd say in most games I've played.


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