Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

Great mod Sombre, and I loves the Trog summons. I like that they look diffrent from Dom 3 normal trogs as well. Five out of five stars for graphics!

I think Wauthan gives you much better feedback than I ever could. I do agree with him on the Avernite mage. Really don't use them that much personally.

I'm still playing around with them but this is one of my favorite mods out there.

Keep up the good work.

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

Maybe the crystal souls old age could be them starting to go a bit crazy after being rocks for so long? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

Edit: Endgame progress report. The AI didn't last long with only this mod running.

1. I've recieved my first and only hero and it turned out to be a 3 nature mage. That's not a good thing balancewise. This means that I can eventually cast most nature spells even without empowering. As I said earlier the Soulguard have a tremendous synergy with Gift of Health since they got 100% regeneration. Not a gamebreaker of course but I would recommend that this hero gets 1 nature, 1 death, 1 air and 1 fire instead.

2. The Nephil Shamans are simply to good right now. Research is through the roof even without the easily available Owl Quills. Might perhaps be solved with a 20% random magic and an increase cost to 110 gold?

3. The trogs are barely balanced for their cost. Trouble is that they are fairly "meh!". Astral gems are more valuable then other gems and I find little reason to invest them in these guys. They need somekind of special ability to make them worth the cost. The Troglodyte Defenders are supposed to have "equipment second to none" yet they only have a basic battleaxe and platemail. I rather have fewer but tougher units with each summoning.

4. The Trog leaders are simply a waste of gems. Blood mages are not all that good this late in the game. They are too few and too weak to start any meaningful blood economy. My suggestion is that you rethink the concept of these guys. Avernums strength is it's tremendous versatility, and the nation doesn't really have any apparent weakness. The Trogs should thus be focused on a very specific use but I've no idea what that would be.

5. The Slith Warrior and Slith Warborn are a bit too expensive for their abilities. I think they could use a +1 on both attack and defence. Also the Warborn oughto be recruitable from all forts. They're not so good that this disrupts the game, and their slow mapmove makes it difficult to reinforce the fallen.

6. For the same reason the Slith Lord sees very little use. Perhaps you could drop the priest magic on this unit, decrease to cost to 65 gold and allow it to be recruited from all forts?

7. The Vahnatai Ranger is a very competent assassin for it's cost and upkeep. The sacred ability is a bit odd since it can't be blessed during assassinations. My humble suggestion is that this unit can only be recruited from the home province.

8. The Crystal Soul could use a few elemental immunities considering the cost. Are you sure that these chaps (shards?) wouldn't be more appropriate as high level summoned units? Their description seems to indicate that they are created rather then recruited.

That's all the critisism I can think of. Hope some of it have been atleast a little constructive. Many thanks for sharing this mod Sombre.

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

Ok I'll respond to the ealier post first.

1a. That's a bug. Forgot to give them maxage. Fixed.

3a. Letting Avernum go for 3 death 3 nature from recruits doesn't sound good to me. You mention later on that Greenpaws having 3 nature is unbalancing. They are a versatile nation but avernite mages don't need to be that good. Maybe 90 gold is a bit too cheap, looking at other minor mages of the era. Ok, cost increased to 115, percentage to 60 40. Picks remain the same. I still think they're a pretty usable unit if you've decided to pour gold into armies or you're saving up for a CS. They can give you access to more nature and death magic, after all. I have to put a cost on that. If they're not useful, then they can't be too expensive - they are supposed to be balanced against other mages /and/ within the nation. With the changes I'll make to the nephil shaman, they should be gold.

6a. Well now it's 7 guard, 7 archers per 10 points. I'm sticking with braves and nephil archers after 20 points - the braves just get wiped out usually, but hey that's what they're all about. Discourages people from pumping high PD (which kills SP games for the AI).

7a. I went with astral in order to restrict the player. You can spend more on other paths, but astral is strongly encouraged, because pretender or not, that's a crystal soul. I'm certainly not going to make bless an easier choice for people - I don't especially like bless strategy (it's pretty boring) and I made it something people /can/ go with, but not something I /want/ them to go with.

Re: Crystal Soul Age - it's purely aesthetic, right? I mean you can't be running these things into old age. They're effectively ageless as long as you don't click on the fatigue button.

As for the next post,...

1. Greenpaws is a thematic thing. I don't think she breaks balance (heroes generally don't) and none of the other heroes have 3 in a normally hard to get path. You were just lucky (you could have gotten slitherhooks).

2. Yes, I checked into the balance of these guys and they're too good. I've hurt their research with a -1 'bonus' in the next version, dropped the percentage to 50 instead of 70 and upped gcost to 110. Pretty solid nerf. They should still be useful though.

3. Trog balance is hard. They kept me alive in a game where I had very little territory and the AI had most of the continent simply because I could spam hordes of them using all the free astral pearls from the CS. In my experience trog warriors make a mess out of just about anything. I really, really don't want overpowered national summons, especially as the AI sucks at using them. As for the defenders - that equipment /is/ second to none if you're a trog. It beats fists and leather, that's for sure.

4. I admit I find the commanders even harder to balance. The trog lord and shaman I wanted to put at the head of any summoned trog forces, but the problem is you can't mod summoning units with leaders. I'm just going to drop their cost, make them very cheap. Trog commanders are effectively just there for people who want to play with more trogs and I'm unwilling to diverge too far from the standards set by the Exile series. Basically the trog spells are supposed to be more like teleporting in a heavy infantry force than nationl summons which net you crazy or special magical units. That's why you get numbers as well as stats. I've dropped gemcosts considerably for leaders and defenders, given defenders a little stat boost and dropped costs somewhat for regular trogs and warriors.

Khazi from 20 to 14
Lord from 8 to 5
Shaman from 10 to 6
Defenders from 25 to 20, now 8 summons not 10.
Warriors 20 to 18
Trogs 7 to 6

That's in the next version. I personally think it might be too good a deal considering how many astral pearls you get, but we'll see.

5. Well, they do get a lot of abilities and the warborn are very tough for recruitables. The nation is also supposed to be rather costly (especially slith, who are somewhat rare in the Exile series). Still, I'll drop costs to 15 and 20. Warborn are staying cap only to reflect rarity, with a tiny stat boost. This should encourage their use, without making the nephil warrior, brave or avernite guard redundant.

6. I'm not happy with him being a priest either, so I'll drop that and change the cost. I'm not making him available everywhere due to slith rarity (theme from Exile). He stays sacred. Minor stat boost to make him more thuggy.

7. Sacred simply because all Vahn are sacred to Avernum. The cost is going up to 140 - I'd forgotten it was still at 100. I don't want this to be an assassin based nation. Unlike the other Vahns they aren't cap only because they wander around the surface looking for trouble. Heh.

8. No way I'm boosting the CS in any way shape or form. They are still incredibly useful at almost any cost due to the gemspawning. They're staying recruitable because A) They are already around (lots of them in the chamber), you just need to get them to join your cause. And B) They are integral to the astral economy unique to Avernum, which starts from the very first few turns.

I appreciate the comments, as always. Hopefully these changes will improve the balance for the next version. I'm still very wary that the nation is overpowered though. Particularly with improved summons and cheaper slith.

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

Hahahah, nice! And thanks! I've put a fair bit of work into making it and it's always nice to get positive feedback.

I think responding to people's suggestions about balance changes is a big part of making a good mod too. It's very hard to see problems with your own nation while you're making it. You really need the perspective offered by players.

Other minor changes - Avernite mage gets ldr40. One less astral gem income from startsites. Startfort changed. Oh and no more spy or basic priest recruitables. They can manage without.

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

*cheers*

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

Ok, v0.9 with balance changes and a few other bits is attached at the front (or will be, in 5 mins).

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

I just downloaded it from the first post in the thread and tried it. Awsome... almost makes me want to play exile or avernum again.

Bug: The first two national summons doesn't work. They summon the wrong unit number. Haven't looked at the others.

#newmonster 2891
#name "Troglodyte"

#newspell
#name "Gate Troglodytes"
(...)
#damage 2810

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

Doh, thank's for spotting that. When I changed the numbers to make the game compatible with a couple of other mods I forgot to update the spells.

Ok that'll be fixed in 1.0 as well as any other bugs people post in the next couple of days. For now I suggest you reassign the spell damage values manually if you know how. I noticed the trog graphics have a couple of transparent bits too, which I'll fix.

V1.00 which will be the final pretty much, will be up within a week then.

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

Version 1.00 is up.

Numerous minor fixes including sorting out those trog spells and giving worthy heroes esque misc slots to the hero units.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.0 UPDATED
 

I can imagine a Geneforge mod, too. They would be extremely summons-heavy.... Three basic leader-types: Agents, Shapers, and Guardians but there would be others, too, like independent serviles, drakes, etc. And then there are the insane ones that have had a bit too much cannister juice. Too much fun!

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.0 UPDATED
 

This mod is a lot of fun. This nation is very powerful but I think it is neat for single player play.

I lucked out and picked up 3 heroes within the first year of the game. My strategy consisted of making tons of gem producers with my great scales and summoning troglodytes like woah.

I made my phophet the slith gladiator guy with the excellent regen, and he pwnd anyone foolish enough to step in my domain (65 hp with 8 candles).

Next time I play, I am going to try a different pretender setup. I am going to go 3 order 3 magic 3 growth, enough death for the mid range undead leaders, and enough nature/water for clams. My astral economy was unreal, and I can only imagine with clams to boot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif


Balance/ bugs-------------------------------------

Really, talking about mod balance is truly a matter of opinion in dominions, but one thing that did stand out was the power of the Trog khazi with 3 blood / 3 earth. In my game I did not have growth scale, so they picked up afflictions pretty fast from old age, but they seem very underpriced in any case for what they are capable of.

The only bug I found was a typo in the description of the starting commander. Ben needs to be replaced with "been".


---------------------------------------------------

Conclusion

This is really a fun mod. I am going to fiddle around with the unit numbers and the nation number so I can play this mod with my mods in the same game. I am curious to see if the AI has the brain power to pearl horde with this nation or use the summons properly.

There are a lot of different units to choose from, and I admit I was a bit lost when it came to the theme of the nation because I have never played the original game. It seemed like the Nephil could be developed into a nation of their own, as could the sliths, but I imagine this probably conflicts with the original games story.

The graphics fit in PERFECT. You did an excellent job of resizing and making these graphics work.

I love this mod, nice work!

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.0 UPDATED
 

Looks very, very nice!

[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Bug.gif[/img] However in 3.08, it is suffering from the two-headed bug from explicitly setting the unit slots based on the incorrect values in the mod manual, which now correctly end up with you getting two heads if you enter that number.

[img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Bug.gif[/img] The half helmet on the Avernite units isn't working.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.0 UPDATED
 

Yeah that 3.08 itemslots dealie means I'll have to update pretty much all of my mods.

Thanks for the bug report - keep them coming :]

Foodstamp - if you think that the nation is /over/powered rather than just powerful, then we have a problem and I'll need to go through the balance again. I thought that making the Crystal Souls cost 500 would make pearl hoarding with them at least slightly difficult, but maybe I need to either whack the cost up even more or otherwise hose them off a bit (maybe nix their research value).

The trog khazi is perhaps a bit underpriced. They have a cost left over from when they were somewhat weaker. Khazis in Exile were tough as all getout, so I think what I need to do is pump up their cost, particularly given the astral pearl economy you can get going with this nation. I might give them a random of fire/water as well, just for the fun blood summons - though this would be reflected in the updated cost.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.0 UPDATED
 

Actually I did not think the nation was overpowered. I just thought that the one trog caster was underpriced. This nation IS very easy to gem horde with. Even with order 3, sloth 2 I was able to turn out Crystals every turn after a certain point, and I was still able to grab casters every turn because I had researched Thaum.

I think the nation is a lot of fun, and balanced enough imo. I found this nation to be fairly weak when expanding early, it had an average/above average mid game, and a very powerful late game.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.0 UPDATED
 

Hmm. One way of stopping that might be to increase the resource cost of the Crystal Souls, making it hard to make one every turn, especially if you want to crank out national troops.

When I play with them I spam a lot of troggies too - that's what they're there for. They make really solid heavy infantry, although they tend to get ruined with afflictions after a few battles.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.0 UPDATED
 

The next version will be up tonight.

1.1 will fix the bugs you mentioned and sort out all the itemslots making Avernum 3.08 compatible.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.1 UPDATED
 

Updated, check the first post for details.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.0 UPDATED
 

Sorry if its been mentioned already but trog defenders dont have shields which they have in their pictures.

ps: try an S9N4 bless and heavy scales. Your vahnatai warriors work great with it(they can survive just long enough for their shurikens to decimate the enemy) and later on when you combine vahnatai warriors with trog defenders(hence the n4 bless to combat afflictions) you have a very strong army with great survivability and offensive power. You also have a very powerful late-game pretender, good scales and an army with great MR.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.0 UPDATED
 

Ok I'll reupdate the file giving the trog defenders shields momentarily. Hold to download until then.

It doesn't deserve a new version number just for that though ;]

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.0 UPDATED
 

Ok in the attached 1.1 file they now have shields. Good catch Shovah.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.1 - patch compatible
 

A new version may well be released soon.

In the meantime, here's a picture of all the units, standing around looking gormless.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.1 - patch compatible
 

Lemme test out the image tags.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...m%20lineup.png

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.1 - patch compatible
 

Wow! So many units. I increasingly realise this must have taken a lot of work!

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.1 - patch compatible
 

I've reorganised the preview a bit. It's attached and will be an image on the first page.

The next version might just be a CBM rebalance. I'm not sure right now.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.1 - patch compatible
 

I've updated the first post with version 1.2.

Mostly minor changes, but now the crystal soul recruitable commander doesn't give you any pearls.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.1 - patch compatible
 

MINOR UPDATE: Version 1.25 fixes an error I'd made with copystats and should give partial darkvision back to the Avernum units, something they lost in 1.2

So redownload people.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.1 - patch compatible
 

The avernite archer has only prec 9. Is that intentional? I guess he's supposed to fire a few rounds, but then enter in melee combat? Nephilim have "vulerable" in their descriptions.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.1 - patch compatible
 

Yeah, he's a human forced underground - his eyesight has suffered.

The Avernite Archer isn't a good unit, that's for sure, but not much I can do about that. Staying faithful to the sprite here.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.1 - patch compatible
 

Has anyone been able to thug out Crystal Souls? I'm not sure they're still worth 500 gold after removing the gem generation. Compare, for example, to Astrologers.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.1 - patch compatible
 

Well they're 400 gold in the newest cbm version, the one we're using in the mod game.

I agree 500 is too much, so in the next version it will be changed.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.4 RELEASED
 

Version 1.4 is here.

There are loads of tweaks and changes, a new commander called the nephil scout (he does what he says on the tin) a new graphic to replace the ****ty avernite captain graphic,.. what else,.. oh yeah darkvision works now. And I improved the Crystal Souls so they aren't such a ripoff now.

Attached to the main post. Enjoy! ORFEELMYWRATH.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.4 RELEASED
 

Oh and before you install this new version, delete the old one, because I've changed the directory and dm names, so if you don't you'll end up with two of them and that would be confusing.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.4 RELEASED
 

I've got NGF : bad nametype while right-clicking on the vahnatai ranger & mage in the recruitment screen.
Weren't slith warborn cap only before ? Or have various abuses broken my mind ?

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.4 RELEASED
 

Warborn were cap only before, now I've unrestricted them because Avernum was basically too cap centric. Besides if you can get Slith Warriors and Lords anywhere it makes sense you can get warborn anywhere.


As for nametypes - you're right. But it isn't my fault. It says in the new mod manual that nametypes up to 159 are available. This isn't true. 151+ don't work and produce crashes. I will upload a fixed version of avernum using nametypes 149, 150 momentarily. I'll also make a post in the bug thread.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.4 RELEASED
 

I have a soft spot for this mod. Maybe it's the archer kitties!

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.4 RELEASED
 

Yes, I'm currently playing SP with this mod. The unit descriptions are superb and really lend to an epic feeling of a nation(s) in exile. I'm not familiar with the books/comics that are the base for this mod and am learning about the nation from the descriptions and unit traits.

Its a really cool and well thought of mod and I like it a lot. Thanks Sombre!

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.4 RELEASED
 

It's actually based on games by Spiderweb software.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.4 RELEASED
 

LOL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Just found that out after googling a little. I am impressed with the exile series and have just complete d/ling the original.

Have any of you guys played one of the exile or avernum games?

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.4 RELEASED
 

I did a bit, but I never played enough to learn of the world much more than the backstory.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.4 RELEASED
 

I've played and enjoyed several games of the Avernum series.

This mod does a nice job capturing the feel / atmosphere of the games. (Though obviously the underground / desperation part is impossible.)

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.4 RELEASED
 

Unless a special scenario map is created on which exile starting province and the surroundings are all cave terrain.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.4 RELEASED
 

Well caves still don't produce darkness, so it would actually be kinda meaningless.

The Exile series of games are excellent and have been remade as the Avernum series. I advise anyone interested in the setting to give them a go, because they really are top tier RPGs.

Re: Avernum, The Awakening v1.4 RELEASED
 

It seems ver. 3.15 broke some things in the mod. I noticed the national spells are not available after upgrading. For example, mages that were order to cast "Gate Troglodytes" before the upgrade are reported after to upgrade as casting "gift of flight" and the nation summon spells are not available to cast.

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

I'm curious if this has been brought up before, but, apparently there is absolutely no magic in avernum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif. Because none of the spellcasters or the pretender have any magic set to them. I deleted and redownloaded the mod and it still comes up the same. Thoughts?

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

No idea how you've gotten that to happen. They all have magic for me.

What version of dom3 are you using?

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

3.15


Also, it somehow fixed itself. Everythings working fine.

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

Now that I got a good feel for the mod. Heres some thoughts.


The gate spells for summoning trogs. Wouldn't it be just fabulous if gating in trogs brought 10+ instead of just 10? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Get 1 extra for every extra level of astral magic. Perhaps to show the ability to keep the temporary portal open a little longer then someone not as skilled?

Re: New Nation(s): Exile/Avernum
 

While you're busily updating your nation mods, please don't forget about this one, Sombre-it's one of my favorites. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif