Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

I'm back from my trip, but I'm not re-enabling the timer until the Jomon replacement is sorted out; arghaii, could you please send me a pm with your email address so I can modify the lists?

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

Oh, joy. What do the community rules say about new
players and old treaties? The last thing I need
right now is a new enemy where I had a peaceful
neighbor... and I made a lot of concessions to get
that peace.

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

Although a sub is not bound by old treaties, I think most people who do sub are usually open to accepting the terms of treaties negotiated by the original player. At least having a sub and this possibility is better than turning the abandoned position over to unpredictable AI control.

Even so, the original player, had he remained in the game, might have been up to some treachery and might have planned to backstab his own ally, so a sub can not be bound by pre-existing treaties, especially when the terms seem particularly onerous.

With that thought in mind, I have forwarded arghaii's email address to each player so that they can make contact and inform him of any pre-existing treaties. There will be time to do this before he makes his first move, which he tells me he will do later on today.

Bear in mind that a sub may have no way of confirming the terms of earlier treaties, either, and could be vulnerable to false claims by unscrupulous opponents. In the long run, each player will develop a reputation among the MP community based on the way they handle their diplomacy.

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

No worries... We renegotiated. It's easy when the treaty benefits both.

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

The timer is stopped again; solo must leave the game due to circumstances beyond his control. I am looking for a sub.

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

Unfortunate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Btw, thanks a lot for the great game.

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

Very advance notice - I will be out of town April 19-23. I suggest a timer stop even if I'm not still in the game, as I won't be able to fix things if someone else needs a break while I'm gone.

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

Greetings, new neighbors and friends! The new Council of Panii has removed the misled old rulers of Pangaea, and looks forwards to a time of peace and cooperation across the face of Parganos.

And speaking of advance notice, I'll be away for a few days at the start of April (probably 2nd-4th). Also, very slim chance that I'll be away for next weekend, but hopefully I'll be able to stick to the schedule. As I told AJR when I offered to sign up, I do have the occasional predictable break, but I only expect sympathy if and when I let you all know in advance http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

The last few weekends we have been turning the timer off, and frankly,
I was hoping we would make it the rule rather than the exception.
Especially now that I remember why I stopped playing C'tis once upon
the time although I had no losses with it... Scripting ten flavors
of death mages before every battle soon gets old.

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

Just as a reminder, I'm going away from now until wednesday evening (eastern US time). So, if the timer would stay off for another 2.5 days, I'd appreciate it highly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

I'm going to be away from saturday (April 7) to tuesday (April 10). I will probably be able to get turns in on saturday before I leave and tuesday when I get back, so it's really mainly sunday and monday, but I would appreciate a timer stop for those days.

I will also be gone the following saturday (april 14), though I will be around both friday and sunday.

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

Sigh. Pangea is either a cunning genius or is unbelievable lucky. Or am I just an idiot? I think the latter. My SC fell to dust with all his precious equipment before he could even strike at an enemy and half of my battle mages were blasted into oblivion by my god. But he got what he deserved: he was shot next round by my own crossbowmen. But what do you expect of half-blind cavedwellers.

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

I am sorry for holding the game up. I really need the time for
diplomacy. If everyone else is fed up waiting for me, I'll send
an empty turn, because my choices of actions are REALLY opposites.

Peter of C'Tis

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

Cupido...

As for war in the north, I have no better idea than you why it's going as it has been! This is mostly a big fat legacy army from the old player that I'm wielding.

As for war in the south, I'll call myself a cunning genius http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

A possible long-term problem - I'm going to be moving in early June. It's quite possible that the game will be over by then - at our current pace, we should be past turn 100 - but if it's not, then we have two choices:

* Someone else could take over hosting while I'm offline. If this happens, I will find a sub for myself (assuming I'm still in the game).

* The game goes on hold until I can get the server up at my new place. This is likely to be a week or two of downtime; it's a question of how fast I can get internet hookups made. I will be happy to do this whether or not I'm still in the game.

This isn't something we need to decide on immediately, but I wanted to give advance warning now that the move is certain.

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

I vote the game goes on hold while you are moving. I hate changes, and
hosting has been perfect so far. It can only get worse...

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

We'll figure it out when the time comes closer, methinks. Who knows, we might even have a clear winner by then!

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

Btw, I'm going to be away Saturday midday to Sunday evening this weekend. Hopefully shouldn't slow things down much though!

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

Guys, I am sick as dog. High fever and teh works. I would rather wait
for a dya to take my turn... I hope you do not mind. If it rolls over,
well... I'm messing uop anyway.

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

As I said earlier, I'll be out of town this weekend; I'm leaving today, and I'll be back Monday night. I expect to have limited net access, so I should be able to get a couple of turns in at least. I may not be able to fix the server if anything breaks while I'm gone, but it's been behaving well thus far.

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

I'm back, and I believe we're currently back to normal schedule with no one away (although I still haven't finished going through the giant piles of mail in my inbox). However, the server will be down for several hours tonight for software upgrades, so the timer will remain off for another day or so.

Re: Parganos game for 6 players (signing up)
 

OK, the server is back up now.

The filth that is Man
 

The vile nation of Man has moved its hordes against the empire of C'tis.
Here is a short history of the despicable practices of Man.

While Mictlan's warriors were engaged against our troops, Man strode, unopposed,
into northern Mictlan, and conquered more than half the empire. When they had
gobbled up what they needed, instead of honoring their alliance with C'tis,
and actually contribute to the victory, they let Mictlan retreat and regroup.

Not content with just letting down their first ally, they had their diplomats
negotiate with Jomon for a common attack against C'tis. Once Jomon was
committed, Man stayed within its borders, betraying their second ally, and
leaving them to their doom. Doom that has since struck.

At the time they betrayed Jomon, Man made everything possible to make us believe
that their dishonorable behavior was mostly due to misunderstanding, and Jomon's
actions. It shames us to admit, we were taken by what I believed was sincere
apologies, and failed to act against Man.

Due to their brilliant, but disgustingly vile politics, Man has grown in strength
and now is moving against C'tis, with no declaration of war, or just cause.
He will enjoy a lot of early success, as unfortunately our back is just as open
as it was against Jomon in the beginning of that war.

Nations of the world. Man is the most powerful nation right now, and once he
conquers northwestern C'tis, and takes the capital, he may be unstoppable. I
honestly do not believe that there is any way in which I could prevent the above
from happening. I will fight him, but in the next five turns, I will not be able
to oppose his hordes in any significant way.

Unless we want to reward Man's revolting behavior with victory, it is time to
put our differences to rest, and strike now. We know that Man is a fearsome
opponent, and we do not expect anyone to come to our help openly, but anonymous
spells can make their progress into C'tis quite costly.

Let us all show Man that vile treachery does not pay!

Peter, head scribe for C'tis

Re: The filth that is Man
 

A nation of lying lizards, C'tis truly is.
Jomon attacked C'tis after receiveing an ultimatum of surrendering our provinces and razing our temples.

Jomon may fall, but no lowly lizard may ever call Jomon a treacherous nation.
Jomon kept to its peace agreements through endless lamentations from the kingdom of C'tis concerning how fragile their infrastructure is and how weak their war against Mictlan has left them.

One thing for sure, after the last war it won't take you five turns to stop the next attacker. You just cannot stop them. Your troops are diseased and afflicted with all kinds of maladictions due to famine and black magic.

We believe that the next chapter of this story will be... "Vultures prey on a wounded lizard".

Leander Jomon

Re: The filth that is Man
 

Could you please point out where we have have called you treacherous
or accused you of lying or breaking an agreement? Our only accusation
against you has been that while you were supposed to be helping us,
you were effecting a domain push in our east. The ultimatum did not
call for surrendering any provinces, but only to destroy the temples
that were destroying our income.

And do not forget that this ultimatum came only after Man stated that
you guys were allied and coming after me. Even then, we did not attack.
We did not even invade you until you started a scorched earth policy
against the population in our northern provinces, as opposed to honorably
fighting on the front lines. As for honorable commanders like your
prophet, it is with regret that we saw him fall in the last major
battle. If only the sauromancers had held their fire until our
enchanter had reached out to him...

As for who will stop whom, this remains to be seen. Our empire is
indeed weakened after fighting two exhausting wars and Man is fresh
and fat on unearned spoils of war. But my diseased and exhausted
armies have not lost an engagement yet, and I do not see Man looking
for an army clash either. All I see is cowardly hordes attacking
undefended provinces.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

Treachery! C'Tis has launched an unprovoked attack on the armies of Man

My armies were engaging in training exercises near the border with C'Tis when they were ruthlessly attacked by an Air Queen under the command of C'Tis.
Man has not attacked C'Tis or done any other action that would justify this kind of unprovoked attack.

C'Tis has the temerity to come on this forum and complain about my despicable and dishonourable practices? I am not the one who has launched an unjustified attack without warning on a neighbour. All of you should take note of this. All of you have a border with C'Tis. If he is willing to attack without warning or provocation we should all look to our defense.

As for the charges he has raised against Man - they are a pack of lies. I will not sink to the level of defending my actions on this public board. If anyone wants to know the other side of the story I will be more than happy to share the truth about what happened through some private means of communication. Send me a PM or e-mail and I will be happy to reply.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

Hey, all of C'tis' charges have been in-character, is Man not going to fire back with in-character propaganda of its own? C'mon, we wanna hear the juicy news!

Re: The filth that is Man
 

Training exerices, you say? Training exercises which
involved getting 1500 elite troops and probably 100
mages in a position where they could crack open three
castles in the next month? No resposible ruler would
have ignored this threat, and by starting to pull our
armies west, we allowed Jomon a respite that we can
hardly afford.

A squad of brave and reckless samurai managed to carve
a second Jomon empire out of Northeastern C'tis, and
the only reason that they are not facing a reaction
force are your training exercises. Your action were
threatening, your action harmed us, and the 'exercise'
my air queen provided for your army was well deserved.

We are certain that the only reason that our castles
do not lie in ruins is that you were afraid of being
attacked by your neighbors. Betrayers expect betrayal.
What they get is justice.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

Fact: Man has not attacked C'Tis
Fact: C'Tis has attacked Man

It's one thing to not ignore a threat, it's another to attack without provocation. I wouldn't have had a problem with C'Tis taking any number of defensive actions. I do have a problem with being attacked without warning or provocation.

You claim my action harmed you; My action did not harm you - If any harm was done in your war against Jomon it was your choice and therefore YOU harmed you. Besides, one of my scouts observed your armies continuing to push the attack against Jomon, so your claim that you pulled your armies west is simply not true.

Sending your Air Queen to attack one of my territories is not an 'exercise' but an unprovoked attack that is tantamount to a declaration of war.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

There is no point in splitting hairs and trying to prove that
technically my air queen attacked first. No one denies that.
No one denies that you are very skilled at getting something
for nothing, washing your hands, and walking away.

The 'exercises' were a provocation. We do not know whether
you only intended to derail our Jomon campaign. Maybe you
meant to invade, but were scared of actually having to fight
instead of tricking someone else to pay the butcher's bill.
Maybe you came to believe that others would attack you as soon
as you became engaged with our returning forces. Maybe you
even wanted to trick us into throwing flames and plagues at
your forces and retreat back under the Gift of Health.

We do not care, and we hope no other nation does. Through
skillful and disgusting maneuvering you have achieved a
position of power. It remains to be seen whether it will
survive any actual combat. The people of C'tis hope that
other nations see you for the threat you are.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

It's not that you attacked first; it's that you attacked, and I didn't.

I hope no-one is fooled by this propaganda into believing that I am the aggressor here. There is one simple truth to this situation: you attacked my province without warning or provocation; I still have not lifted one finger against any of your provinces.

I tire of the poisonous talk.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

Man set to AI. I'm off to find a less offensive game.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

Seriously? Jeez, people. Someone misrepresenting the causes of a war in in-game terms (ie, referring to nations not players) is pretty standard MP forum propaganda.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

And hell, those things rarely are actual personal attacks. They are an indicator of success more than that. It shows that C'tis instantly got nervous of you having troops on his border and started talking against you, even if it was completely innocent, which in turn shows that he fears you.

This is, actually, supposed to be a good thing.

But I really have no idea why he would attack with a Queen of Elemental Air, though, if the army was actually that strong. Sounds like a blunder to me.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

Ok, lets be serious here.

First of all, if moving 1500 troops and 100 mages to an undefended border is not
provocation, I do not know what is.

Second, unrest is being stirred in my provinces, and I would be exteremely
surprised if it is Jomon's ninjas doing it. They are too busy assassinating
my priests with variable success.

Third, my only western army was hit with Beconning, and while there is another
Nature nation in the game, I don't see why it would be weakening me.

And fourth, who the Hell cares who started the war... roleplaying is one thing,
and the C'tis Emperor has been a whiny coward the whole game, but it is clear
that Man and C'tis have to fight. As far as I am concerned, since Man broke
the alliance, I have never needed a reason to attack him. I just had a
multitude of reasons not to, no matter how much I wanted it.

Other nations will decide which side (if any) to take based on their
perception of the balance of power, and on the existing alliances. I
think I am significantly weaker than Man, and I did not expect Man to
receive any support, with or without propaganda.

I feel that I need to engage in both diplomacy and propaganda, given
that I am sitting in the middle of the map, bordering everyone (and
Jomon twice ;-) I do not think I have said one single factual lie the
whole time, and if something is subject to interpretation, I would
like to hear Man's.

Any chance this game can be salvaged? Can the AI be given to a player?
Man is the most powerful nation in my estimate, and setting it to AI
will ruin the game. I am sure that C'tis, Mictlan and Pangea (in alpha order)
can work together to defeat it, but if I wanted to stomp AIs, I'd be playing SP.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

> But I really have no idea why he would attack with a Queen of Elemental Air,
> though, if the army was actually that strong. Sounds like a blunder to me.

Oh, it was not one army. He moved four or five armies to most of our border
provinces. His armies were full of siege specialists and they were close enough
to crack three castles in one turn, and my capital in two. There may be a
way this coudl have been innocent, but there is no way it looked innocent ;-)

I sent the Air Queen on top of his army because I needed her in a neighboring
province one turn later, wanted his army to waste gems, and wanted to do some
damage. And frankly, I knew I could not stop the castles' takeover no matter
what, so I wanted to show some fight ;-)

By the way, if the Air Queen had not interpreted "Attack archers" as "Attack
undead, illusions, and anything but archers, even if they are standing next to you"
she may have won. As it is, she killed about 60 men (25%) from a army led
by 10 mages and routed.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

Wow! There I was, lurking and enjoying the banter, and poof! It's over. What a disappointment. I guess the players remaining in the game may be even more disappointed.

I've gotta agree with Ewierl. Tuidjy's propaganda was not only most certainly in character, it was an entertaining read.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

I guess I see it in a different light given the context of very heated communication and name-calling that occured earlier in the game over e-mail between Tuidjy and myself.

After a serious personal (and it was most certainly personal) conflict the comments take on a different light - especially when the previous trouble (which was a misunderstanding) is something I am blamed for in these posts - like our earlier disagreement (and my subsequent 12 month peace) was trying to abuse the situation. I find that offensive.

I guess you guys seeing only one part could think this is just banter. I don't believe it to be so. It sours the game (for me) to have these kinds of things said.

I wish you guys well and I'm sorry if Man being AI screws with the game. Honestly I think the AI is not that smart - you should be able to succeed against me pretty well I should think. Plus which the numbers of troops under my command on C'tis's borders was hugely exagerated - not even close to 1500 and 100 mages. I had 4 army groups, each with 200 troops and a handful of mages. So maybe 800 on the front lines and another 200 or so elsewhere.

All that to say, I think you guys will fare fine. The AI doesn't know how to deal with a well-planned human attack.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

The problem is more that the AI doesn't do diplomacy. Do we have a master password with the power to put in a sub instead of AI? Or is the AI decision irreversible?

Re: The filth that is Man
 

I don't believe I can reverse a switch to AI, even with the master password (in fact, as far as I know the only thing that the master password allows me to do is set a player to AI). With that said, I may be able to back things out manually - I have all of the turn files saved - but I don't have Man's password for a sub. st.patrik, would you be willing to give me your password?

Re: The filth that is Man
 

Ok, what is the status on the game? Are we looking for a replacement?
I think it is worth stopping the game until a player can be found.
This game has entered a very interesting stage, and an AI will completely
ruin the very fluid balance of power.

-----------

And as for the accusations, I, as the player, believe that the original
alliance's meltdown started from a misunderstanding, but I also see that
Man only profited from the following events, and C'tis only suffered.

And I have to say, misunderstanding or not, 'My ally is getting too strong'
is not an honorable reason to break off an alliance. Neither is 'My
ally misrepresented his strength', especially as I offered to reveal my
archived turns after the game ended.

I also think there was NOTHING wrong with my propaganda. It looked as if
I was being attacked, I had nothing to throw in the way, and I needed to
make Man at least fear an intervention from the other players. I did my
best to make him believe that I was going to hit him with fire and disease,
and he pulled back under the Gift of Health. For all I know it worked.
I got two turns in which I may be able to reinforce my capital.

The real diplomacy was done on an one to one basis, and the public posting was
mostly because I felt like putting the 'Help me because he'll be unstoppable'
message in role-playing terms.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

The problem with you guys is that you talk too much out of character. If you could just completely forget that you are sitting on a chair in front of a computer and just behave and interact as if you were actual rulers of actual factions all this situation would had been avoided.

The fact that I was a replacement to an existing nation and that my predecessor had a silly strategy did lots to decrease my playing satisfaction.
Now that I see people dropping the game, I can tell you that it's not helping to improve it at all.

However I trust that we have a good group of players and that we may organize more games such as this in the future.

Re: The filth that is Man
 

(I'm holding off on my turn for a bit until I can sort out what's going on with Man, one way or the other)

Lets pause the game
 

Seconded. Lets try to find a replacement for Man. The game just would
not be fun with an AI that position. It should not be TOO hard to find
someone to take over a leader in a game, if only to play with a well
developed nation...

Re: Lets pause the game
 

Agreed, I'm happy waiting for a replacement.

Re: Lets pause the game
 

Is anyone looking for a replacement? I admit that I have not been.
Do you think that it is worth it writing a very good description
of the game as of now, and posting it in a separate thread? I am
unwilling to let the game die. Damn it, this was going to be interesting.

By the way, did Man reveal his password to the host?

Re: Lets pause the game
 

I will write this up and post it. I apologize for not doing so sooner; I had been waiting for a technical reason that no longer applies. (Thanks for posting, btw; I had meant to post this earlier tonight, but I got caught up in a baking problem).

Re: Lets pause the game
 

And we're going again; please get your turns in as soon as possible.

Re: Lets pause the game
 

Oh, and I see 3.08 is out; please play your turn BEFORE upgrading. I will go to 3.08 once this turn is finished.

Re: Lets pause the game
 

We're just waiting for Jomon now; I pinged him by private mail. Hopefully once this turn rolls over we can really get moving again...