Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

The mod will be ready within 24 hours. Prolly less, now that I woke up again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

I'd have taken care of it earlier, but there are a couple of things at the moment that kept me real busy. My notebook broke down, seriously handicapping me, my host said that he is switching from Linux to Windows which required me to find a new Linux based host and move all my games over (done that already, now, though), and I'm going to a conference for a week starting tomorrow all besides normal work, so I'm busy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

I'll write PM's to the people when the mod is ready. We'll then start whenever all the pretenders are in, so on Monday in case all of you are fast with that or some other day in the coming week. Maybe somebody else decides to withdraw from the game, we'll see. Setting the game up can be done in a jiffy. Since I heard no objections except "please don't let me start in North Africa", we'll use the Uropia map.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

I have finished the new mod that we'll prolly use for playing. I'll now send out PM's to all the players with the information on how we are proceeding.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Awesome. Umm - what settings are we going to be at? Just read through the thread and never saw that mentioned.

Also - even with Insane 50, New Hoburg's Fallen Wizard pretender seems a bit much, especially for a blessing strategy - 35 points for lvl 2 in _three_ paths, gem income 2, and new paths costing only 20 points.

( Edit - Had mistaken New Ulm for New Hoburg.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Umm - also, Sylvania's Phoenix Guard still has a Fist for a weapon, instead of the golden bardiche they're supposed to have. Likewise, the Enchantress, Loremaster, and Priestess only have fists for weapons, which might be by design, but seems unlikely (as they probably should at least have a knife, eldar dagger, something).

Edit : And the lance Glade Rider doesn't have a sword like it should, only Light Lance and Hoof - should presumably have an Eldar Blade as well.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

I think I wrote in the PM that everything will be set to standard, and we're going to have 48 hours quickhosting.

It used to be even worse before, new paths at 10 points and lvl 3 in those three paths. Yes, it does open up very good blessing potential, but now you at least have to take bad scales to get it to full effect.

Please write a post on Sombre's CBM thread about this (or the mod thread), or provide a fix for it. I can replace the mod without problems, but I got no time to fix this myself.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Okay - found the problems and have fixed them, two modded weapons shared the same number (Dwarven Fire and Dawn's Edge), and one of the Glade Runner units didn't have all the right lines in its entry. I'm attaching a version that fixes only those things - I don't know if there's problems with other nations having missing weapons, spells, etc, caused by folding all the mods together.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

And, unfortunately, I see there's still a bug with attachments - server didn't process my zip file properly, so I'm not sure what to do here.

My fix was changing the weapon number for Dawn's Edge from 815 (shared with Dwarven Fire) to 829, and changing

#weapon "Light Lance"
#weapon 56
#armor "Elven Leather Hauberk"

to :

#weapon "Light Lance"
#weapon 56
#weapon "Eldar Blade"
#armor "Elven Leather Hauberk"

on the Glade Runner.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Okay - Sombre says that second fix is bad, because with the original lines, that glade rider is fighting with Lance, Hoof, _and_ Eldar Blade all at the same time. Looking at the unit's attack skill stats, it winds up being AT 4/10/6, so it is indeed better to remove a weapon, even if the description says, "lance and sword".

Not sure if you'd ever recruit the glade rider with lance then, since lance is definately inferior to the Eldar Blade. (But the unit does get a shield - still, I think it ought to have the Eldar Blade and not the lance.)

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

I don't mind waiting until those fixes can be done. No hurry.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Likewise - no hurry, but I think every player should go through a test SP game and check their units, give a once-over to make sure there aren't any glaring errors. No one can be expected to verify all the nations - but each player should have incentive to verify their own nation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Heh. After playing the hoburgs, I'm scared... because I am having trouble
figuring out how one stops a deluge of highly armoured, heavily massed,
crossbow shooting free troops.

Oh... I started a new game on the attached map. Two of the nations started
with only two land provinces next to their capitals. Another started on the
little sliver of land in the SW, with only three neighbors. Frankly, I
would not say much for Ulm or Teutanion's chances if they were to start
like that.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Yes, the Hoburgs are a bulldozer in the early game, no question about that.

I can top that: When I created a test game, two nations capitals were assigned to the same province by the game. That means that one of them was instantly defeated. I do want to assign starting provinces by hand and I take your recommendations, if you have them. But be aware that not everybody can start on the other side of the map from the Hoburgs... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

If you think those little pipsqueaks are tough, wait until you see what Kharam Dzu can do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Ha!! Vaeittiheim will clearly be the superior 'pipsqueek' nation! Course, it helps that we are backed by trolls. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

You guys are dreaming. I've been messing around with the hoburgs, and I have
yet to find any counter to a rush, apart from the obvious (SC pretender)...

And of course, the CB mod makes SC pretenders prohibitively expensive.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Have you tried beating them the Heim way, with three or more other nations allying up against them? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Hey wait a minute... Don't hurt the little pipsqueaks! We have no mid or end game strength at all! If anyone should be allowed to live it's the poor little hoburgs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif And we're the second to the last nation to be picked, so all those other nations chosen first has got to be better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Oh, is the game ready to run? Or are there still changes to the mod to be made?

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

And also:

!!Special One Time Offer!!

The kindly nation of Hoburgs would like to extend a proposal of a NAP up to and including turn 50 to the first 3 nations to PM us. Offer is valid only before the game starts.

No purchase necessary to avail of this promo.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

We do still need an "official" fixed version of the combinated mod I think, just so's everyone is playing the same sheet of music. We know what the fix for Sylvania is, but it needs to be put up for download.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

I'm ready to go whenever everyone else is.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

I'm not sure what change would be so drastic as to cause this. Certainly something like a PoD with with air magic or other item/buff combos can still tear through a lot of armies.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

No, actually what I am waiting for is your pretenders. I have received pretenders from

• Kharam Dzu (as do-it-yourself-version via PM)
• Vaettiheim
• Teutanion (but I'm still missing the password)
• New Jomon

so hurry up and mail me your pretenders. Come on, I explained to you what you had to do in the same PM where I gave you the download link to the Mod, so you should have read it and known about this! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

I thought some problems were discovered *after* you sent that PM, however, and that we were waiting for *those* to be fixed.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Having just downloaded the mod again, I can confirm that it still has the bloody problem with Dawn's Edge. Ich, until the players all have a version of the .dm file with the weapon numbers fixed, it can't start. Emailing pretenders based on a broken .dm file isn't really a good option.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

This sounds completely wrong to me; the only pretenders that were upped in price were the ones that encourage ridiculous blesses, and those most people set imprisoned anyway. Look at some magicless pretenders; those are SCs by definition and were actually buffed to an extent.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

I thought I sent my pretender to you a long time ago? Do I need to remake it because of the mod fix?

Jazzepi

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Actually, creation of the pretenders and patching the bugs that have been reported are two entirely different things, since none of the bugs were about the pretenders. What's inside the mod about slots and weapons of some units doesn't affect your pretender creation at all. So just create your pretenders and send me the file from your newlords folder. I will release a new version of the mod before we start the game with the bugs fixed that have been reported (as long as I can fix them), and we can collect more bugs until then, but there's no point in releasing an updated mod five times in a row in the meantime.

Yes, that's why I said that I have your pretender and you're in the list. But some others haven't, yet. Sylvania has sent me a pretender now, too.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Sorry, I'm retarded. I forgot I was playing New Jomon. I love their sacred unit, though I think they're useless for any sort of bless strat.

Jazzepi

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

That's one of the reasons (after the fact, maybe) that I did send what I wanted for my Pretender in a PM, it's easier to work with than a broken file

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

So, we ARE supposed to email pretenders NOW?

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

In the name of all that is good and holy!! Yes please email your pretenders now!!!




http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Tuidjy, yes you are. If you have any more corrections to the mod please list them inside this thread. Yes, Hoburg is supposed to be steamrolling you in early game, This is supposed to be a test game with a bit of fun for the players involved. Please also notice that I'm quite drunk (I had to type this paragraph like two dozen times)...

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Pretender sent!

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

> Yes, Hoburg is supposed to be steamrolling you in early game,

Frankly, I have never seen the fun in either steamrolling without any sort of
challenge or being steamrolled without a chance to fight back. With 40 highly
armoured, exceedingly well armed staring troops, and the ability to crank out 20
more per turn with just one province worth of resources, I consider Hoburg so
unbalanced as to ruin this game.

By the way, the pipsqueeks should not get a shot every two turns. If the big
and strong Middle Age Ulm warriors need three turns to crank up their arbalests,
so should Hoburg and Kharam Dzu. And of course, if you scale down a piece of
armour in all three dimensions, you should scale down the protection. If you
are scaling only in two dimensions, you should increase encumbrance. Don't
even get me started on why a midget on a pig should not have the defense of a
superhuman on an unicorn, or why free summons of elite quality ruin balance.

But whatever. I will try to enjoy playing the Reborn Ulm, and hope I do not
have to pretend enjoying being rolled over by midgets. By the way, in my tests,
it takes about 3.5 times the money, and 8 times the resources for Ulm to field
a force that can beat the Hoburg WITHOUT taking free summons into account.
With free summons, it's worse.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Well, if you're already struggling to find enjoyment in playing a game before the game's even begun, why bother playing it in the first place?

Frankly, you're depressing me, and you're making BandarLover cry.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Tuidjy, would you like to trade nations with me? For sure if I see you next to me I WILL STEAMROLL all over you.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

I swear I'm not crying. Something musta got in my eyes. Damn smoke.

Interesting side note (and WAAAAY off topic) I have no tears, which probably makes me the antichrist.

If Ich ever sobers up and can fix the minor flaws in this mod, we can get this thing started and see if Tuidjy's fears of rampant Hoburg steamrollers are founded.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

And one more thing, I can't find the free summons with the Hoburgs. Where do they get that?

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Yeah, I see this as a giant beta test. Let the steam rolling begin! I would suggest that if you aren't willing to accept a little unbalancedness since this is the first time all these mods have been put together in a MP environment, that you run as fast and as far from this game as quickly as possible.

Jazzepi

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

> Well, if you're already struggling to find enjoyment in playing a game before the
> game's even begun, why bother playing it in the first place?

1. Because I said that I would, and I would like to test the New Ulm.
2. Because I think that bringing up the perceived(?) unbalances before the game,
and proving that they exist during the game is the best way to end up with a
balanced nation.
3. Because I there is a chance that I will not start next to Hoburg.

> Frankly, you're depressing me, and you're making BandarLover cry.

Well, I am sure that BandarLover will extract his revenge if need be.

----------------

> Tuidjy, would you like to trade nations with me? For sure if I see you next
> to me I WILL STEAMROLL all over you.

No, because I want to play Ulm. And I know that you will roll me up, because
I could not find a counter although I played both side in a few games. A SC
works, but Ulm cannot really afford one.

----------------

> And one more thing, I can't find the free summons with the Hoburgs. Where
> do they get that?

One Officer of the Great Kitchen (or something) gets 5 soldiers of the line.
They are not completely free (the officer has upkeep, and so do they) but at
worst they cost 4g/0r to produce.

-----------------

> if you aren't willing to accept a little unbalancedness since this is the first
> time all these mods have been put together in a MP environment, that you run as
> fast and as far from this game as quickly as possible.

There is always time to run, especially when one is being chased. But before you
go looking for tar and feathers, why doesn't someone try to explain why it is
necessary that the hoburgs' equipment be so freakishly uber?

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

After further review, I am tending towards agreeing with Tuidjy. I would rank this version of Hoburgs somewhere around the vicinity of Helheim strength for the early game, providing of course that you optimize it for the blitz. Pretty strong compared to the vanilla game. Have no idea how it compares with the other mod nations though.

Some possible counters:

Early game counters: Trampling units, star fires, air shield bless, tangle vines

Mid game counters: Arrow fend

Late game counters: with only 6 hps, pretty much any type of battlefield wide damage will wipe the whole legion off. Foul vapors, Fire storm, poison cloud, fire cloud, etc. There are a few map spells that should be able to wipe off entire armies too.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Repeater crossbows make for good counters, too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

> Early game counters: Trampling units

I do not think that any of our nations have tramplers. And good luck getting
them in range. These are massed crossbows we are talking about.

> star fires,

No. Assuming the very best of luck, star fires will kill two midgets per shot.
This will not make a dent in the horde, and the mages will be in range.

> air shield bless

Very expensive to be effective, and works only on blessed. Furthermore, the
midgets are anything but easy to kill. Insane defense and heavy armour means
that in addition of the air bless you would need a fire bless. And an earth
bless, because the horde takes a long time killing.

> tangle vines

Very short range, no damage, and even with low strength, the midgets have a
decent chance to break out. There will be enough of them, unfortunately.

> Repeater crossbows make for good counters, too

Not really. He will be getting a kill with nearly every hit, you will be
getting a kill with about a quarter of yours. And his guys will be more
numerous, less expensive, will have a shield, and will outrange you. Good
luck getting anywhere as many hits, even with a shot every turn.

-----------------

In middle and late game, the midgets will not be a problem. They can do next
to nothing against thugs, and Evo5+ spells will eat them alive. But by that
time, they will have easily ruined 1-2 players.

And by the way, why is it that size one guys have higher strength and the same
health as humans? Dwarves this tough should be size two.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

I now have received pretenders from everybody yesterday except Sanguinia / Dragonninjaakira. I haven't heard back from him at all, does somebody have his email address? I'll PM him again and in case I don't get a reply I'll ask Morkilus to take over or clear the position for other players again. Another alternative would be to keep the Hoburgs out of the game and let LoloMo play Sanguinia, if he agrees and you're really that much concerned about them.

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

Yep, I can switch to Sanguinia if Dragonninjaakira doesn't play

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

I PMed dragonninjaakira's address to lch (hope you don't mind, DNA).

Re: Neo Xekinima - LA game of Mod nations (recruit
 

I'd really like to see the hoburgs make it into the game, even though they're supposed to be all-mighty. They don't have late-game goodness, and they're even shorter than my dwarves, so how bad could they be?

About to start the game - deadline this weekend
 

I can sympathize with the argument that playing against Heim-like nations can be frustrating. So if Dragonninjaakira doesn't reply to my PMs and email by tomorrow, LoloMo can play Sanguinia. LoloMo, please send me a pretender for Sanguinia when you have some time to do that.

Re: About to start the game - deadline this weeken
 

Need a player yet? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif