Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

The beta will be out tonight or tomorrow.

It will include,....

Ogre Bull with club
Ogre Bull with ironfist and choppa
Ogre with Deathbelcher
Ogre Irongut
Gnoblar Fighters

Ogre Bruiser
Ogre Tyrant
Ogre Hunter
Ogre Butcher
Ogre Slaughtermaster

Gorger
Sabretusk

Some gut magic (but not all)

As you can see, a lot is missing. This beta is mainly so that I can get some input as to the general feel of the nation. Are they brutal a stompy enough and so on,... the graphics for those units won't be 100% finished either. The gnoblars for instance will use a placeholder until I can be bothered to sort 'em out.

In the meantime, here's a preview of the Hunter I just finished up.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...e%20Hunter.png

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

I'd love to try this out tonight. Sprites are looking amazing!

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

this looks amazing!!! cant wait to try it out.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Beta of the tyrant graphic. He's giving me lots of problems. Big git. Anyway, I'm not sure I like the look of a helmet on him. I stuck him next to a bull for size comparison.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...%20preview.png

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Beta 0.2 released.

It's missing big chunks and is riddled with problems no doubt, but it's up on the first page and you're welcome to try it.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Attaching a national preview.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Oh and I just learned that gorger summons don't work.

You need to go into the dm and replace the damage value of the two gorger spells with 2188, instead of,.. 2153 or whatever it was before.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

IMHO Ogres should be smaller than giants (I'm pretty sure that is how it is in warhammer) and their HP should reflect that (make it 20 not 30)

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Bloody brilliant, Sombre.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Eh, Dominions giants aren't really that huge. If you want huge, you have the niefels - I don't know much about the Warhammer variety.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

The warhammer variety, within the warhammer world, a very big. Certainly alot bigger than the ogres.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Yeah in warhammer giants are huge at least 5x as strong (in points/costs) as ogres.. but if we give the ogres 30/5 hitpoints there wouldn't be a point so I said something between humans and giants.

In warhammer they are about equal to troll.. dunno how much hp they have in dominions though.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

What do you mean there wouldn't be a point? WH giants translated to dom3 are size 6, not size 4 like the Jotuns. They'll have considerably more hp than 30.

Ogres in WH are also easily three times tougher to kill than humans. They have 3 wounds and 4 toughness compared with 1 wound and 3 toughness. I converted WH ogres to dom3 and gave them size and hp based on this comparison and on simple model size comparison. WH giants will be comparable with /maybe/ Neifels, but not Jotuns - they're in a much higher weight class.

These ogres /are/ smaller than Jotuns, but comparisons between the size and hp of those two units aren't much use. I'm not making WH units by comparing directly with dom3. I want to have my WH mods fit in dom3 and be balanced in dom3, but I'm not really trying to 'integrate' them and base my stuff on vanilla units. If I was, I'd give ogres higher strength than 14 or so - but any more isn't something I can justify, because WH ogres only have str 4, the same as inner circle knights or black orcs. In my mind, that means a gap of 1 or 2 str in dom3 terms is ok, but more than that and I'm ignoring the WH profile.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Yhetee size preview. Far from finished, I just fancied showing you how my graphics start out - as rough outlines basically.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...tee%20size.png

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

I finished off the Yhetee graphic just a moment ago and I realised that the attack sprite did indeed have a certain 'tude about it. So I knocked up a version with more appropriate equipment, for your viewing pleasure. Oh and the finished gnoblar fighter graphic is in there too.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...tee%20RAWK.png

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

rock on! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Next version will be out tomorrow. Will add finished graphics for the Tyrant and Gnoblars, a gnoblar trapper recruitable unit which grants some supplies, the yhetee unit as a summon with two spells to summon them and a gut magic spell or two.

Might get something else. Not sure yet. Possibly two Maneater elite units. Eastern Maneater will have Jomonesque samurai equipment, Western Maneater will have Empire style stuff. They'll be very similar, with one costing less resources for sloth style players.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

HAHAHAHA! If only I didn't already have a forum picture I was fond of.

By the way, one thing I really enjoy about this mod is the challenge of how you need a hefty chow wagon to keep those bellies full. Then I realized the kitties (summonable by the hunters) bring you food! Oh look, Fluffy brought an Atavi head!

^_^

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

You'll get the same kind of bonus from mobs of trappers, though they'll be pricier than gnoblar fighters.

I'm going to delay releasing this until Sunday because I need a bit more time to fiddle with graphics and I've been invited to a party tonight. RAWK!

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

I've finished the trappers, polished the Tyrant graphic (only a bit, he was damn near finished anyway) and coded the two maneaters.

I'm now working on graphics for them. I cobbled together two rough versions to preview, see if I can get a bit of input before the release tomorrow.

So anyway, East and West Maneaters. Just a rough outline as usual. I'll finish them tomorrow.

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...ets%20West.png

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Samurai and pirate eh? Cool.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Now it just needs a Kala-Mukha monkey-demon and an Agarthan Sentinel... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

He's not a pirate. Nothing nautical about him. The other one you could call a samurai, but he's more of a ronin.

I guess they don't make much sense unless you know something about Maneaters. They're mercenaries who travel all over the warhammer world and are influenced by whatever culture they end up in.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

He is totally a pirate! :p

Look at him, he's like the main baddy in Pirates of the Caribbean (whose name I have annoyingly forgotten).

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Ok he's a pirate http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

But a pirate OGRE. With mor 30.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Oh and bonus points to anyone who recognises the symbol on the Eastern Maneater's back-banner.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Ok, the latest beta is up. Go to the first post to get it.

Attaching preview image to this post. Will then display on first post.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Preview looks very nice (although can't play it at the moment). Graphics are really awesome.

A couple of graphical comments if you don't mind (on the understanding that they'er all excellent anyway): The fourth guy down on the left (gnoblar gnoblar ogre OGRE) - his left hand looks a bit funny somehow. Kind of wasted. Don't know why. Also, maybe it should move in the attack sprite.

Why does the eastern whatsit have a red face? It kind of looks like he has antennae too, and I keep on seeing him as a telly tubby.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Thanks Sombre http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Why are the maneaters so expensive though? 100 seems too pricey. 40-50 would be ok, but 100?

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

llama: That ogre has a choppa in his right hand and an ironfist on his left. I could make the ironfist move in the attack sprite, but I've learned that spending too much effort on something people barely see outside of the preview isn't a great idea. I might redraw it if people think it looks fruity though. The Eastern Maneater is wearing a red kabuki mask. I could tone down the colour I guess.

Boron: If Maneaters were 40-50 I figure no-one would build anything but Maneaters. They are supposed to be rather rare, expensive and and situational units, not stuff you crank out every turn. What I might do is decrease their resource cost (they're basically mercenaries after all). I will decrease the gold cost if people don't build them though.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Does dominion spread just like with Mictlan (i.e. blood sacrifice ONLY) or do prophets and temples work? My dominion grew a bit faster than I had expected, with only sacrifices in my capital.


I'm still trying to figure out how to play this nation, and really the game in general. At first I took the titan for an early SC rush, but then I wasted him researching...only to realise that researching isn't very important for Ogres. Likewise, I piled a bunch of blood magic on him...not too useful there either. I think I'll take another powerful Pretender and maybe try a bless strategy too. I don't want to take a stationary Pretender (seems contrary to the whole "nomadic" thing) and I don't want to take one of the human-sized ones either (too weedy for a nation of Ogres).

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

I wouldn't try a bless strategy, because you don't have any sacred units, just two sacred commanders.

Dominion spreads with temples, prophet and god as normal with the nation. They can sacrifice too, but they can't preach (Butchers are priests in a sense, but certainly not preachers). So they're like Marverni or Lanka, only without preaching.

I took an awake rainbow mage in my most recent game with the Ogres and she did a little researching, just to get some construction, but she was basically there to forge some stuff later and most importantly, go find some indy mage sites. As soon as you have them, you can get the research going and if you have magic scale use Butchers to help out. But you're right, Ogres aren't research friendly at all. What they are great at is stomping stuff - if you can get some maneaters, tyrants, ironguts and a mass of bulls together with 3 or 4 slaughtermasters dropping Bullgorger, Toothcracker and Trollguts on them, you can trash almost anything (though high def sacreds may mess you up). I had several tyrants who were thugs with only a little bit of equipment extra - don't use them on their own, just mix them with the troops and tell them to attack closest - they keep morale up and still do some nasty damage when the bulls can't hit things.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Forgot about that part....like I said, still learning the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

Good advice though, thanks.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Been playing as these guys.. And well im doing pretty well i've lost some battles since they are always starving and have a hard time hitting some stuff but overall they seem pretty balanced combat wise.

But really the nation donno seems to have nothing to do really.. I build a few ogres tell them to attack closest and move the army and my turn is pretty much done..


You think about maybe giving them access to just a bit of earth.. Just for bit of magic diversity for some thugging out of there thugs cause as it is currently you cant get them much equipment . Give there playing a bit of variety and more of a chance in Mp..

Donno if that jives at all with the Warhammer world.. But just a suggestion ..

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

What to do?

Outside of combat; summon Gorgers, Yhetees and Sabretusks, desperately try to find some indy mages, use your pretender's magic to forge things, try to get your research going.

In combat; use your gut magic, gnoblar screeners, flanking, thug scripting, mixing in standards, maximising deathbelchers etc - usual combat stuff.

In the early game you'll do a lot of fairly straightforward province stomping. The trick being to use gut magic to make sure your ogres stay alive and hopefully affliction free, to rack up the exp. I don't think it's any more boring than other nations in this respect. You really shouldn't be starving your troops though. Sounds like you need to send hunters with them. In the next version the sabretusks and trappers will give a better supply boost to make them more important.

They're still in beta so they'll get a bit more complex, with scrap launchers, a bit more gut magic maybe and some more summons. But basically they are a straightforward race where the complications come from keeping supply up, combat strat and the very real danger of being obliterated in the middle / late game. You really have to have a very strong early / mid game with them, or you are toast, which leads to a bit of tension and a need to win every battle, imo.

So yeah, I fully admit that Ogres are about smashing face and that's about it. They have various ways to do it, but they will never change this basic plan - it just isn't in their nature.

Earth magic isn't totally out of the question, but it would be very minor - 25% chance of 1E on the slaughtermasters perhaps, representing their connection with the mountains / maw. This would allow for the forging of the earth/blood stones. Higher earth magic just wouldn't fit with the Ogres.

They'll get a sacred in future versions, but it isn't going to be one that makes you want to go dual bless or anything.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

O yea i summon stuff i like Yhetees but hard to get a decent gem income going.. Getting Research going has been really hard haha tho that was mostly my fault .

I pretty much ignore gnoblars after the first battle when they arent at full strength anymore they route to often. If i need some arrow fodder at the start i just put a few of the cheap ogre in the front ..


And i wouldnt say they are boring just didnt seem like they had alot to due compared to other nations.. Eh i didnt even notice the higher than expected supply bonus from the hunters i just assumed it was the standard 10 . They will be accompanying the army's more often now and hopefully free up some gems from the wine bags. And boost to supply bonus for those 2 would help ..


Ah well the ogres are qutie good at smashing in faces .. And if you have more stuff in the works my comments might of been a bit early ..

And that was the kind of magic bonus i was talking about nothing major or even for all mages..

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

First things first: Solid job as per usual, Sombre. You Warhammer mods are easily some of my favorite nations to play, love the Skaven, the Empire looks like it could be interesting and really like the Ogres...cept for the error I keep getting for it.

I've read thru the post and not seen anyone else having the same problem: Whenever I try to view a battle, a get an error that crashes the game, './skybox1.tga was empty' error message. This was the only mod running at the time, AND I re-downloaded the mod but get the same message.

It's still playable of course, I only see it when I try to watch a battle report...but man do I want to SEE my ogres in action!!

Keep up the good work Sombre. I patiently await work on a Greenskin mod?

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Okin's doing greenskins I believe.

I didn't change skybox tga at all and I don't think that can really be caused by the ogres. Sounds like dom3 is corrupted, perhaps? Try running scandisk on it or reinstalling or something.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Just a comment : I found a funny strategy with them :
you put gnoblars trappers (those with supply..)with a hunter, and you end up with a stealthy supply troop, maybe a bit high on upkeep, but keeping your ogres healthy seems to be THE problem.
Sombre, if you don't stop modding, I'll send you some (french of course) player syndicalists, 'cause of the horrid testing rythm you force me to adopt.
Allas,greenskin doesn't seem to be ready yet, I should whip Okin harder. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif( he made me dream of a never ending Whaag..)

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Yep, the Hunters and Trappers can sneak around providing supplies. In the next version Sabretusks and Trappers will provide more supplies, to make up for the fact they eat them as well.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Hey, I'm pretty well a dominions noob here (with some knowledge of warhammer, which drew me to this mod), so you can keep that in mind for this post...

I was trying your ogre kingdom mod earlier today against the computer playing skavens and I thought you might like feedback on how that played out. I had read through this thread so I knew a rainbow mage was probably a good idea, I took a sage with 4 nature, 3 astral and 3 blood (which I forgot would be pointless), 2 order, 1 sloth, 3 growth, and 3 drain. That drain hurt. Ogre Hunters really helped out, I had at least one or two with every army for most of the game, but my ogres were still eating so much it was hard to go on the offensive in provinces where all of my growth hadn't set in yet. They were quite stompy, though those tricksy skaven clanrats and gutter runners were a bit difficult for most of the ogres to hit. I had a hard time using deathbelchers effectively, as a very small unit or two of faster troops would frequently waste all their shots. I don't suppose you'd be inclined to raise their ammunition to 3 to offset that a little?

Maneaters (dual wielding) were mean. Once I started getting very many of them, the skaven were pretty much toast. They were almost invulnerable to the swarms of independent archers and pretty much every skaven unit they sent at me, and with their attack skill and multiple attacks the skaven were dying in droves. Very thematically accurate, but wow... they had no chance. Until I started using them though the incredible swarms of skaven they were sending at me were really hard to kill off, as I was mostly relying on ironguts at that point and they just didn't have the killing power to fight that many units at once. I'm sure they'd be great against larger opponents though. I would very highly suggest not lowering the cost of the maneaters. But I was playing in a 300x gold game, so I'm sure they were quite a bit more prolific than they would be normally.

I think being able to spread dominion normally and do blood sacrifices might be just a liiittle too strong. I only controlled a little over half the (60 province) map by the time the game was over and with temples and about... 5 or 6 gut mages sacrificing pretty much every turn, the rate my dominion was spreading was pretty ridiculous and the skaven's dominion evaporated. I didn't check the game's length but it was probably less than 3 years. As it was, I didn't really feel that the blood summons were worth it compared to spreading my dominion like hotcakes. And after I got Gift of Health up and 33 of the second Bull Ogre unit could defeat 200 man armies taking 0-1 losses, I pretty much laid magic to rest. It felt a lot more useful to make cauldrons of broth than it did to make yhetees....

Ogre prophets with Unequaled Obesity and a nature magic bless are crazy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

New version coming out fairly soon.

The attached image shows my work on the scraplauncher and very early work on the size of the Slavegiant. Is it too big though? It does seem a bit too thick, because it's en enlarged ogre body right now, basically.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

After a bit of argy bargy on the IRC channel, I decided to scale the giant down a bit.

This is the size I currently reckon is right. There are a few other big chaps standing around for comparison. Note the niefel is size 5, not 6.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

New version will be up momentarily. Here's a preview pic.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - Warhammer Nation
 

Those look awesome Sombre!

Re: Ogre Kingdoms - 0.5 RELEASE
 

Ok it's now uploaded.

Ogre kingdoms still has a couple of unfinished graphics, lacks a bit of polish/testing and is missing all of its heroes, but its up there with my other stuff in terms of quality now. I think in the future it will rival Skaven, anyway.



-- Version 0.5

-- added ogre nametype 147

-- darkvision handed out, use of copystats removed

-- checked IDs against Skaven 0.9, CBM 1.21, Avernum 1.45 + others

-- made slave giants into commander units with no slots, improved their graphics


-- Version 0.4

-- Slavegiant, scrapapult, rhinox, pit fighter added

-- Gnoblar scout added

-- Anoint Mawtribe sacred summon

-- Many tweaks

Ogre Kingdoms minor fix
 

Oops.

There was a small conflict with my MA Skaven. I've fixed the download available at the start of the thread to sort this out. You'll need to redownload if you want to play MA Ogres and Skaven together. If not then don't worry about it.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms minor fix
 

Damnit.

I missed some more conflicts between skaven and ogres.

I've uploaded 0.55 now, which I'm 99% sure gets it all fixed. So redownload if you want to use ogres and skaven at the same time. Thanks.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms minor fix
 

I'm working on a hero at the moment. A slaver of living and undead who is himself a little of both.

The graphic isn't quite finished, but nearly there. It's attached.

Re: Ogre Kingdoms minor fix
 

Very cool. How is he going to attack dragging those slaves around? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif