Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

Very interesting. I will take a look at Urdheim. It sounds good for a scenario project.

Any other mod nations besides this Urdheim and Amos's that you would consider as being too powerful for a lone vanilla nation?

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

I believe Mushroom Kingdom is overpowered, I was told Magoserium is overpowered, the non CBM version of Hoburg Kingdom is pretty much overpowered,... I would argue Haida Gwaii is also slightly overpowered and so is Sylvania, arguably.

There are others, have a look around. I try to avoid them generally speaking so I'm not an expert on them. Shovah actually might have better knowledge of such nations.

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

On a scale where LA Man is 10, and LA C'tis 13...

Sylvania is 15.
Angelic Crusade is 20.
Urdheim is 25.
Stigian Corruption is 300.

I was greedy, I wanted to win. But I am also a coward so I run away. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

I also looked at Stigian Corruption, and damn, this mod has incredible graphics.
I wish the author would make an effort to balance it against regular races.
It is nowhere near balanced against overpowered nations, either. And I dare say
that the 37 defense is a simple bug. The defense and protection values on that
particular armour seem to have been switched. :-) But even if they were switched
back, it would still be nonsensically good.

But I have to admit Sombre is absolutely right. I believe that with good diplomacy
Sylvania can survive in a world that includes the like of Magoserium and Angelic
Crusade. As a matter of fact I think Sylvania is not particularly weak against the
latter. But against Stigian Corruption? No way.

Is Amos still active? Do those who have had contact with him think that he may
apply his incredible artistic talent into some balanced mods?

And now I am off to test Stygian Abyss in battle. I wonder whether the graphics
will look as good as they do against a monochrome background.

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

Angelic crusade isn't hugely overpowered?

I haven't looked at them in detail but I was under the impression they were pretty damn crazy. For instance their pretender is H4, immortal, fireshielded, awe 4, fear 3, pathcost 20, dominion 5, healer (100%), flying, forgebonus 50%, causes eyeloss, fire poison and shock immune, standard 20 and max normal and magic leadership.

If you gave him dom10 anyone striking him would have to pass by huge awe, eyeloss, a 10 point fire blast, fear (+3) and ethereality. That's before buffs. Oh and he's att 14 def 14 base, with an aoe6 weapon called Wrath that does armour negating damage and has a nasty secondary effect.

Let's have a look at Urdheim's best god. For less than half the price of the above god you get,... immortal, flying, siegebonus, cold immune, (poor) ampibious, poison immune, poison cloud 15, fear 10 (!!!), D3, dominion 2, pathcost 50, 180 base hp, base 13 prot, att 18 str 28,....

I don't think he's that outclassed. Fear 10 plus whatever you take for death and immortality means you can just drop him on armies and watch them all run away the second he kills one of them, which he will with his stats.

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

Heh. The Angelic Crusade Pretender you describe costs 455 points. Sure, you can
build him. And then you're either stuck waiting for him to show up, or you end up
playing a nation with really crappy scales, and that's without any magic paths.
And the troops of Angelic Crusade may be strong, but not "out of this world,
freaking insane, gifted with incomprehensible stats" which is what Stygian
Corruption troops are. No, Angelic Crusade is a nation that would take some
finesse to play, especially if you want to be viable in late game.

As for Urdheim, did you see me mentioning them when I talked about a world where
Sylvania could survive? Yes, they are grossly overpowered. Nikolai insulted hem
by putting them at 25, but then, he had chosen them, hadn't he? Still Urdheim
are not in the same category. Urdheim does not have units with defense 37 (WTF?)
human warriors who are given defense 17 (just because they are so elite)
berserking tramplers with encumberance 1, regeneration, and immunity to mind
attacks (because of course tramplers are so underpowered that they really need
these three weaknesses removed) Even their deformed freaks have strength 23 and
berserk +3, twice a human's hps, twice the attacks, recuperation... for the
well researched and very appropriate price of a human elite.

Urdheim's units are quite underpriced, and his summoners are too numerous.
Stygian Corruption's units do not belong in Dominions III.

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

Guess Amos has changed them since I last downloaded a version of the angelic crusafe mod, because in the version I'm looking at the Demiurge pretender is 350 points. I don't think you'd need good scales when he can basically fight entire nations on his own :]

I'll admit I didn't look over the angelic troops too closely, but I did take a look at their commanders and I find it hard to believe you'd really need good troops if you had a few of those badboys. I assumed they were of roughly comparable strength with Stigian Corruption to be honest, but it seems it's not really the case. Still very powerful though.

Urdheim might not be in the same class as Stigian corruption, but I can imagine them actually putting up and fight and being able to take part in a gangpile on a stronger nation. Sylvania? No chance. They have overpowered pretenders and looking at the mod games so far it seems some of their troops are rather overpowered as well, but they aren't on the level of Urdheim or Angelic Crusade and those may well be two of the weaker nations picked so far.

Just so everyone knows, I picked Stigian Corruption completely at random from a list of Amos' mods. I wasn't going for the most powerful/broken one or anything like that; I just liked the name. If Stigian Corruption is way stronger than anything else, I can simply pick another Amos mod. They're all very interesting and weird.

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

Is this game about to start?

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

I think Peter meaned that with dominion 10 you specified. I also think that for a really good game, some balancing needs to be done. Not volunteering :-p

By the way, in the duel Sylvania vs Angelic Crusade we fought, Sylvania won. Both times, with Pantocrator and without, and with players switched, too. We are playing on lunch break again - Urdheim and Sylvania VS Stigian Corruption on Panganos.

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

Pantocrator?

Yeah with dom10 that pretender would be pretty pricey. It's still completely broken though.

I guess your duel would suggest Sylvania can take part in a game with Angelic Crusade level mods. They are themselves rather overpowered (I nerfed them, but perhaps not enough, in my CBM version). Is Angelic Crusade merely the runt of Amos' uberpowered litter though? And what about magoserium and Mushroom kingdom?

Are you teaming up against an AI Stigian Corruption? I doubt the AI will actually be that good with the nation - it would take a human to exploit their crazy stuff.


Finally, to be clear: I am NOT doing any balancing for this game - I did it with the other two mod games and I'll probably do it in a number of future mod games, but this one was supposed to be completely free from interfering, balance changes etc. That was pretty much the whole point - let people use some of the really cool mods that just aren't balanced for dom3. Specifically there has always been a lot of interest in Amos' nations.

If there's a demand, I can CBM balance any nation without 'ruining' it. I'm sure of that. So if people want a balanced version of an Amos nation, I am entirely willing to do it. It will take some thinking and messing around and a few releases I'm sure, but it's totally doable.

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

Im going to step down from this game - just to likely the nations will be way to unbalanced for me to enjoy the game.

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

Doh.

Maybe we should rethink this game? It's kind of falling apart at the moment. There was quite a bit of interest in a free for all mod game, but maybe people didn't realise how unbalanced it was actually going to be...

Those of you who are stepping down, would you be interested in the third balanced mod game, should it be made?

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

> Those of you who are stepping down, would you be interested in the third balanced mod game, should it be made?

Yes.

And some info. Sylvania and Urdheim beat Stigian Corruption below 20 turns. We could not play to end, but outcome was clear. Elves raiding&fading, the Stigian God won everything but could not catch all, the Stigian troops die hard but cost much, Harlekins deadly, but again, can't catch all... and both Urdheim and Sylvania rule on traps/shooty armies. And Stigian Corruption was player, not AI.

Balance is hard. I get a lot of respect for Sylvania. And Urdheim should be Uberheim!

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

I thought the whole point was to play an unbalanced game. If the combined mod works without bugs, let's play. Who cares; I'll take Homer's spot if you need another one.

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

Yeazh, I am still in, this game is going to be lots of fun. If people drop out and we need more, ask for more players. I am pretty sure there are people who dont mind an unbalanced game.

Unbalance creates its own diplomatic dynamic.

Having said all the above I do have to admit, I would like to ask Amos if he is still around ( not, right?) if that 37 Defense on the Stigian Corruption unit is what he meant or a typo, because it does seem like a typo.

I also think if someone is brave enough to want to play whatever nation they want, I say let them. As long as they are not going to drop out in 20 turns amidst whining about imbalance. They must be sincere and have some heart.

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

Admittedly, I have not looked at the nations chosen yet, especially not Sombre's choice, so I am still under the impression that even if one of the nations is more powerful than the others, alliances will even it out again - even if he has an impossibly powerful god, that god can't be everywhere at all times, can he?

Wikd, it seems you didn't get what this game is about, and that is to bash at each other with excessively powerful stuff, nothing like that mod that you picked. I warned you to save you the frustration in advance, and I'd still let you play the mod if you want, I just don't think you will have any fun in doing so. I don't understand how that advice is a bad thing. If a balanced game with mod nations is what you are looking for, I have already two games like that running and as long as there is interest I will continue to host games like that. Those are a challenge to everybody.

Okay, sorry for taking my time, I had to setup my system from scratch again, which took most of my week from me. The combined mod should be ready soon, now that I have Dom3 running on my new system again... Then you can try out if a combined effort from all of you could defeat Sombre's nation of choice or not, and then we can assess that situation. Please don't throw in the towel before that, this was never meant to be a serious game to be won by skill, anyway... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

Everyone on Sombre? We'll see if you can take me, bwahahahah.

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

Okay, sorry for taking so long folks, here is now the preliminary mod for the game so people can try out the nations in a game together: http://www.mediafire.com/?1ulr1nfienz

I put them all into late age. Unpack the file into your mods folder, enable one of the two mods in your game preferences (one has the 7 chosen nations, the other one has the Seraphim from Angelic Crusade as a bonus nation, too), then create a new game.

Because of nations with not too many new units like Insectoids and Magoserium, we have no problems at all with the descriptions for the seven nations that have been picked. That's why I added some other nation - if I include the Seraphim, for example, then only some nation descriptions are missing that you only see during pretender creation anyway. I have to say that these mod nations together are looking very very interesting, I think.

EDIT: Fixed the link http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/Injured.gif

Re: New Mod game: Amoscalypse Now
 

Now that I created the combined mod I finally had a look at the mod nations, too, and I want to comment on that Nephilim hype:

I don't think that the situation is as bad as Nikolai and some others make it sound. Yes, the Nephilim look scary. They have insane def, they have attacks with a Soul Slay as secondary effect. But that doesn't make them unbeatable. Sure, they are overpowered compared to a normal game, but so are the other nations, too. (Except Mushroom Kingdom. That's only in there for the giggles, I think its power level is about vanilla game) First of all, having seen it happen in games against other powerful nations in base game all the time, diplomacy is a powerful thing. If two or three people ally up against somebody, then usually he has no chance but to eventually lose. They can overpower him by numbers alone and make his economy go haywire, leading to his eventual downfall. Now, about those Nephilim. Yeah, they have insane def, they have powerful weapons, but they're not invulnerable. High Def means that you have to either a) swarm them or b) exhaust them or use other means of attack, like ranged attacks. They do have zero prot, after all, so they are naturally VERY vulnerable to ranged attacks. The Soul Slay effect of their weapons is intimidating, too, but at least you can MR resist it. If a Jotun hits you then usually you just die, too. So you say, they are sacred. They can be abused with an air/earth bless. That's true. But they're still very expensive. Look at their gold price. They're well worth the money, but it's a very limiting factor for them. Their national god is scary, too, funny thing is that he wasn't restricted to that nation so everybody could recruit it before... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I fixed that, of course. And then there is the downside: it's a blood nation with sacrifice dom. Their freespawn never heals. Lots of those other nations have way better freespawn, I think.

So to make it short now, I don't think that the Nephilim are that much out of the league like the hype made it sound. And no matter how powerful the individual units might be, they won't be able to overpower an alliance. So please calm down, have some test games (and not just against indies) and try to design a pretender for your nation for the game, yes? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

P.S.: As said before, Mushroom Kingdom is not as powerful as the others, IMHO, I'd say they could be used in a vanilla EA game. Those Seraphim that I added are what Amos considers the "most balanced nation" of his creations, too.

link fixed
 

whoops, bad link, it's fixed now... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: link fixed
 

Sensori agreed to play if he got this spell. So here it is.

---- Cillit Bang!

#newspell
#copyspell "Sulphur Haze"
#name "Cillit Bang!"
#descr "How do you do it, Allan? Do you perhaps drink Cillit Bang? This water is BANG! And my bird is gone! George, you still filling your water with volcanicity? And making Cillit Bang for breakfaaast!"
#restricted 73
#researchlevel 0
#precision 10
#path 0 1
#pathlevel 0 1
#pathlevel 1 0
#range 40
#end

Bang!

Re: link fixed
 

That must be some in joke I completely don't understand.

Re: link fixed
 

If anyone understands Sensori, they have not yet spoken up.

Re: link fixed
 

So you want to understand where that's coming from? Here!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hvBNBiE0lI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2AsmE3vuaw

But in this case, knowledge might add to your pain, especially if you don't find things that make absolutely no sense funny. And you know what the Vorlons say, "Understanding is a three edged sword"!

What\'s the status?
 

So, could I please get a response from those that signed up for the game if they really intend to play in this game, and in that case get pretenders until the next weekend?

In case somebody wants to drop out, no problem with that, we could get some other player interested in joining the game.

Re: What\'s the status?
 

I'm definitely in! I'll send in my pretender before the weekend comes.

Re: What\'s the status?
 

I'm still in Ich. Did you already provide an email adress for sending the pretender?

email address
 

please use this address to send in your pretenders:
http://i15.tinypic.com/6extwyh.png

Re: What\'s the status?
 

I am in still, will get my pretender in soon

Re: What\'s the status?
 

It'll be ready by the weekend.

Pretenders received
 

I sent PMs to the people that expressed interest in the game.

Pretenders received so far:

calmon / Insectoids
Sombre / Stigian Corruption
LoloMo / Magoserium
BigandScary / The Black Moon

Re: Pretenders received
 

Hey lch, I remembered the pretender that I wanted into the game!

Here's the crap:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> #newmonster 2450
#name "Volcano"
#spr1 ".\Amoscalypse\KoopaArmy\Volcano1.tga"
#spr2 ".\Amoscalypse\KoopaArmy\Volcano2.tga"
#descr "A volcano who wishes to eat Earth for breakfast after drinking too much Volvic revive, which filters down his handsome volcano rocks to create a wild mineral water which grabs life by the conkers."
#ap 30
#mapmove 0
#hp 500
#fireres 100
#coldres 50
#fear 0
#prot 30
#size 6
#str 30
#enc 0
#att 30
#def 0
#prec 15
#mr 23
#mor 18
#gcost 10
#rcost 10
#pathcost 100
#startdom 5
#weapon "Fist"
#weapon "Fist"
#mountainsurvival
#forestsurvival
#poisonres 100
#eyes 2
#shockres 100
#heal
#itemslots 12294
#immobile
#magicskill 0 2
#magicskill 2 1
#maxage 9000
#startage 1942
#magicbeing
#restrictedgod 73
#goodleader
#end</pre><hr />

If you think it's overpowered, tune it. ;p I still want it! I pretty much restricted him to two magic lines, water (Volvic volcano, water, obvious!) and fire (volcano, firey magma, obvious!), so me not making it totally immobile by copying Sphinx should be justified. Recoup is justified by lava "regenerating" old wounds. STR, it's a damn volcano. Att... It's a MAGICAL volcano that can see stuff. Defense 0, because it's a volcano. Resistances are justified by it being a volcano... And so on. It's meant to be put in the place of Mario, since I won't be using him if mah Volcano goes through.

And here's the picture files:

http://sensori.soldats.net/volvic/volcano1.tga
http://sensori.soldats.net/volvic/volcano2.tga

Re: Pretenders received
 

I really want to play in this game and lead the Blood Elves to bloody victory, but my personal circumstances and timing have changed and I have decided I want to hold off a month or two before starting a new game.

SO the blood elves are open.

My apologies if this ends up delaying the start of the game.

Two positions open
 

So, at the moment there are only four players ready for the game. We can get at least two others in. If you are interested, choose any nation that hasn't been taken yet (anything except Insectoids, Stigian Corruption, Magoserium and Mushroom Kingdom), then hurry and sign up now!

Re: Two positions open
 

I'll join, but is it mods from every age or just the early age?

Re: Two positions open
 

The era is more or less irrelevant since we won't be playing with any nations from base game, only mod nations. Download the mod pack that I offered for download earlier and see if any of those vacant positions interest you, in which case you can sign up with them. You can pick another modded nation, too, just like suggested.

Re: Two positions open
 

Alright, I'll play as Moork, from the "Black Moon Chronicles"

Re: Two positions open
 

You mean you'll play as "The Black Moon" from the 11 nations mod? Or something else? Please link me to the mod in question.

I hope you have had a look at the competition, by downloading the mod that I prepared for the original choices. The other nations are going to be tough! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Don't come running at me later, saying it's unfair! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Two positions open
 

It is "The Black Moon" from the 11 nations mod. It used to be the Black Monn Chronicles Mod in dom2. And I've played most of those mods and thought the point of this game was unfair matchups. Why would I whine about that?

Re: Two positions open
 

Since Neo Xekinimia is finished, I can start this game with whatever mod is already prepared. Could we get an update to the main post, lch?

One position open
 

Yup, I linked to the list of pretenders that I received above now. Very good, I'd like to only get one more player in now so that we have a little more action... Morkilus, pick any mod nation that is still free (Sensori gets Mushroom Kingdom).

Re: Pretenders received
 

So... I downloaded the mod and it looks like Angelic Crusade is open. Can I give that one a shot? I should be able to make a pretender tonight.

Re: Pretenders received
 

Yes, just send in a pretender and it's yours. I hope to get some more people in, but I'll start the game this weekend.

Re: Pretenders received
 

I may play with my slightly more powerful version of Zapath/Sombre's Necropolis (a little more protection for base troops (all still &lt; 10 and crippled/ghost form still 0), +1 heat, citadel as the main fort with dead cities for all other built forts).

My nation will still be underpowered compared to some of the other nations here (the one with Demiurge is silly), but I come in expecting to lose http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: have sent pretender and mod to lch

Re: Pretenders received
 

it looks like i won't have much time to play for the next few weeks, so i'm going to have to withdraw. sorry

Re: Pretenders received
 

I'm not sure when this will start but i'm away from Sept.27th-Oct.3rd so please wait till i'm back or take me out of the game. Its difficult/complicate to find subs for a not started game.

Re: Pretenders received
 

I guess I'll wait then. Too many people hopping on and off the game, I'll just start with what we have when calmon is back.

Re: Pretenders received
 

Wait, is it too late to join as Tasilondren then?

Re: Pretenders received
 

Thanks for waiting Ich. Actually you can start the game if you want. I've internet access here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Pretenders received
 

DryaUnda, no, it's not too late, but maybe chose another nation, one that Amos created perhaps. There are a couple of them which haven't been claimed or got available again. Just because the one you chose has no new graphics and is probably balanced for vanilla. If you want to stick to it, you may.

Just send me a mail with your pretenders and tell me what mod you used, I'll get the game up then. Including you, Sensori.