Re: How do you fight the Niefel giants?
 

So I'm playing an SP game on the lovely Faerun Adventure map. Thirteen Mighty AIs versus little old Lanka.

Would you believe that I'd never played Lanka before? Man, I'm enjoying those evil little monkeys. :evil:

Anyway, my nearest AI opponent turns out to be Niefelheim. The AI even picked a N9B6 bless, which is pretty decent. (Not perfect, because Niefelheim certainly doesn't need more Strength, but pretty decent.) And I'm playing with the Better Independents mod, so the AI actually did a good job of recruiting Niefel Jarls & Giants.

The Niefel giants were scary at first, but my F9-blessed monkey demons took 'em down. And then I sieged his capital so he couldn't recruit any more of them. The castle-storming battle was pretty funny, because the silly AI put his Green Dragon pretender in the middle of his remaining Niefel giants. Green Dragons are not cold-immune. Needless to say, the pretender cast one spell, shapechanged to dragon form, and then fell unconscious. :doh:

My point is: Fire. Niefel giants are vulnerable to fire. Either swarm them with F9-blessed sacreds, or roast them with serious Fire evocations. Melt the big snowmen!

Re: How do you fight the Niefel giants?
 

And if you aren't a nation with strong fire mages or sacreds that you'd want to give a F9 bless?

Re: How do you fight the Niefel giants?
 

Curl up in a little ball and hope the giants don't notice you?

Bribe them to look in another direction?

Bribe someone else to look in their direction?

No matter if you have a counter to a rush or not, being rushed is going to slow your growth curve, its just a question of how it affects the rushers growth curve at that point.

Re: How do you fight the Niefel giants?
 

Well, that leads back to a number of other suggestions that have already been made. Paralyze, Petrify, skelespam, Soul Slay, and other forms of battle magic can all be helpful.

And if you don't have any battle magic worth mentioning? Raid the heck out of Niefelheim, then try to convince him to pick another target.

And if you can't raid? Um ... try diplomacy. Make some friends!

And if you can't make any friends? Go AI and try again in another game. ;)

Re: How do you fight the Niefel giants?
 

Creepily enough, this is the situation I found myself in. However, being a n00b I still have the AI set to normal. I find Lanka (or any of the monkey nations for that matter) a challenge, because I tend to use PD as something of a crutch since I tend to freak out when I don't have nice contigous borders. This game has been teaching me that they aren't necessarily important though, and I am slowly but surely winning, having wiped out Niefel and nearly destroyed Yomi and Agartha. I am praying however that Caelum, Ermor, and Ry'leh leave me alone till I am done with Yomi, Agartha, Arco, and Ct's.

Re: How do you fight the Niefel giants?
 

Actually, couldn't a Horror Mark spam have some effectiveness if you can trade some territory? Having never tried it or seen it tried I have no idea what the effect of a bunch of HMed giants would be, but it seems like it could be fairly effective.

Re: How do you fight the Niefel giants?
 

Hmmm ... has anyone suggested Flaming Arrows yet?

Re: How do you fight the Niefel giants?
 

I suggest you try the diplomacy before the raiding = )

Re: How do you fight the Niefel giants?
 

Personally I'd try the diplomacy first of all.. you can't really win against a Niefel rush.. you can just hold it back at considerable cost.. preventing that and hope to kill em late game when you (might) have more advantages/less disadvantages :D

Re: How do you fight the Niefel giants?
 

There have been several suggestions that the most effective counters against an early Neifel rush are either diplomacy or indirect attacks.

That begs the question: if you are Niefel, why resort to diplomacy? Other than limiting opponents.

Re: How do you fight the Niefel giants?
 

Well, niefel giants cost a lot, you'll surely won't have enougth of them to fight more than two or three opponents...

Re: How do you fight the Niefel giants?
 

To be clear, when I advised diplomacy, I didn't mean begging the Niefel player not to kill you. That's silly. The whole point of Dominions 3 is to cast down the false Pretenders and claim the throne of the Pantokrator. There can be only one!

More to the point, why would the Niefel player listen to your pleas?

You: "Um, could you stop killing me?"
Niefel: "Why?"
You: "No reason, really. I'd just like to live."
Niefel: "Right. Let me consider your point ... nah. Die!"

If you have something that Niefel wants -- and can't just take after he's done killing you -- then maybe you can bribe him into letting you live. Like you could forge neat stuff to equip his Jarls, maybe? That could work. But that's an iffy proposition at best, and I'm thinking that the Niefel player might just kill you anyway.

When I advised diplomacy, I meant you should talk to the other players. (Like someone with Fire magic, possibly?) Explain the situation to them. Explain how allowing Niefel to add your empire to his own will make him into a late-game juggernaut. Explain how it's better to gang up on the Big Snowmen and kill them now, and then you can divide up the spoils. Make an alliance. Offer bribes. Promise favors. Do whatever it takes to get some help. Niefel is very scary 1-on-1, but a decent alliance can take down anyone.

You: "Help, Niefel is killing me!"
Abysia: "Why should I care"
You: "Because Niefel will add my provinces and gem income to his own, and then you'll be next!"
Abysia: "Hmmmmm.... Any other points?"
You: "Um, wait, hold on ... I'll give you a couple of Dwarven Hammers."
Abysia: "Sold! Time to char-broil some giants!"

That's just an example, of course. Your specific circumstances will vary, but the principle remains the same. If you can't handle a Niefel rush alone, try to get help.