Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Yeah LP, that's what I expected, random starts.

Just the luck of the draw. I started at 65, with 3 neighbours, one a plains. *sigh* --And then! I found out that Sauromatia started at 73 and Atlantis at 101 (sorry if that was any big secret, Sensori : ).

/rant on

There are 107 provinces on this map--96 land. Aethyr and I have 14 of them IN TOTAL. The other 6 players must be well spread out; you have around 15 provinces each to play with. Enjoy!

It was an amazingly crappy start for me--but just barely good enough that I couldn't cry foul until I found my neighbours, a few turns in. With my playtesting, and this MP game, I've already decided I *DESPISE* the Aran map, and will never, ever play in it again. Too much chance for someone getting stuck out on a peninsula with nowhere to go, or down in that crappy wasteland corner.

Also: random starts, imo, should NEVER be used for MP games. It really sucks to commit months of a person's time to a game--only to realize that you've got no room to expand in any direction. If an MP map has 8 players, 8 starting points should be picked out, and then assigned randomly. Much more chance of not being a waste of time.

I don't know if I've salvaged anything and created a game where I have a half-assed chance of winning. Only time will tell, but if I have done so, it was only by trampling over (literally ; ) Aethyr's game. Because of my crappy start, one of us--quite possibly both of us--had to have the game stripped from them.

/rant off

Anyways, just putting this out there as food for thought for future games. I'm still going to play this one through, and see how it goes...

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Anyways... thanks for the feedback- I see where you're coming from, for sure.

Actually, I am stuck on that peninsula- and barely secured a route outwards.

Though actually, I like Aran for these reasons. I like the extra tension and the idea that I could be eliminated at any time. I appreciate the risk of early elimination. I learn more from a quick vicious war and defeat than in a game such as BAG where I rot in peace for three years from a bad start position and timid diplomatic choices, despite having a large swath of wastlands and swamps available to me.

That said, check out Halls of Valhalla - my first post lets the players select either map, aran or paraganos. And if you get in there really _REALLY_ early, right when a new game is started up (before it gets its own thread) you get a chance to really customize it. I'm afraid though, that once gets its own thread, it isn't likely to change.

P.S. Games I'm involved in, I have an interest in Aran, I'll be careful to mention the map. For the other games, the ones I'm just administering, though... I'll use the thrice-modified version of Paraganos as the default when the players have no preference.

I am familiar enough with the map editor now to take on custom positions... but before I do that, I'd like to see each players:
1). Name
2). Nation
3). Province index # where their capital is
4). Rate position great, good, ok, weak, or horrible
5). If its a bad postion, mention what's wrong with it.

Ideally, I wouldn't have to wait, and would get this information now, so I could start thinking it over. Realistically, some of this information might not be the sort of stuff you want to let out there. Practically, I recently kicked off Forseti, though there aren't many takers for the settings of that one... so it'll probably be a while before I start a new one, anyways. OTOH, nothing is stopping me from organizing another 8 player one (that I will not be participating in).

To sum: in a week or so, when the information isn't classified, could you please evaluate your starting positions and pass that information on to me?

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

I don't mind sharing:

1) Aethyr
2) Sauromatia
3) 73
4) OK

While I agree with many of Indy's points: starting very close (relatively) to another player presents some challenges.

However, I think that thing that he's not giving enough credit to is diplomacy. When he chose to attack there wre several indy (no pun intended) provinces to be had. Additionally, especitally since he got the jump on me, I was willing to offer terms that were quite favorable. Instead, he decided that it was more beneficial to his cause if he eliminated me sooner rather than alter. I'm not faulting him; in his position I may have made the same choice. BTW Indy, I still have not conceeded that you are strong enough to break me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Don't get me wrong, I'd MUCH rather have 10-12 or so provinces to work in before an early encounter, but I also enjoy the dimensions that an early encounter and diplomacy bring to the game. Hope this helps.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not emotionally upset or anything. And simply starting near another player isn't really the issue. It's that I was only three provinces away from *two* other players, both of whom were placed in the only direction I could expand in--all on top of being handed a rather weak starting province.

It's like joining a wrestling match, then discovering I've been hobbled and had one arm tied behind my back--and no one else has. At least I've got a *very* good excuse if I don't win. ; )

And you're right, Aethyr, diplomacy was an option--but not a viable one, in my opinion. With Atlantis expanding around me from the northeast, and you due east of me, I literally had *nowhere* to go. All you would have had to do was take the provinces bordering your capital, and I would be cut off from the continent, with only around 7 or so provinces to my name. And I...highly doubted...you would be willing to cede one of those province to me. ; ) Since a war between us seemed all-but inevitable...I decided to initiate it under the most favourable terms I could.

One thing though, Aethyr: if I shouldn't have revealed your capital loc, I apologize. Maybe I'm being way overconfident, but I've already begun considering it mine. ; ) (I hope I don't look back on this and wince in embarrassment, in a few turns!) Didn't mean to exclude you when I apologized to Sensori, no intention of offending, and so forth...

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Do not worry. The blooddrinkers of Sauromatia wish all to know the place from whence their DOOM comes! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif We are glad that you consider our capitol already yours, please do come in. We have a feast that has been prepared especially for you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

The Witchkings of Sauromatia thank the Formor for generously lending us their land; you shall be repaid beyond imagining. We require no assistance against the birdlings, but we invite you to join us in picking their bones clean.

To the Alantians: you also may partake of this conquest; you will find us most generous in friendship and in the sharing of the spoils.

You will find us completely without mercy in war.

To the cowards of Caelum we say only this: We are coming for you.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

To all parties, I wish to say that the Fomorians are an honorable peoples. And we will honorably wage war soon.

We have reached the limits of our empire. Someday soon we will send either Sauromatia, Caelum, or Arcosephale a messenger informing you of war. We have not yet decided whom, and will listen to envoys, although our own interests will be the greatest priority. We expect both parties to abide by the terms of our non-agression agreement.

For example, if I send a declaration on turn six, the message shall be recieved in-game on turn seven. Hostilities shall not occur until turn ten. If they fight honorably, I shall show quarter if asked for, and fight honorably myself.

If, on the other hand, the other party attacks the turn they recieve the declaration, then I shall show the fools the true power of disease.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Coming for me? You have only one province left--and one that apparently Fomoria 'lent' you. Soon you will lose them.

Still, it will be interesting to see what you intend to do...

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Why, the unexpected of course. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

On another note, I will be on the road home at the end of next week. I will be leaving on the 20th or 21st, depending on the weather, and will be able to play again on the 22nd or 23rd. I will try to get to a hotel with an internet connection but there is no guarantee.

Is there any way we can do a quick host, without a time limit, during that time?

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Uhmmm... with llamaserver?
No. And yes.

I can't remove a timelimit. But I can extend it to something like 4 days, or I think I remember Llamabeast mentioning a fortnight (which I had to lookup in wikipedia, being American). Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what he said.

Think you'll have trouble meeting a 336 hour deadline?

Trivia Question:
What is one furlong per fortnight in miles per hour?
Quick! Is that in International, nautical, Irish, or Scottish miles?
Lightning round! Why is the nautical mile the only standardized mile that varies depending on your location? At least before 1929?

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

336 hours... yeah I think that would work http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I will let you know before I leave. I appreciate this.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

And so the Sauromatians, unable to recover from the swiftness of Caelum's attack, faded into memory...

Gentlemen, I have set myself to AI. Enjoy the game.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

... narr! I stalled. I would swear that I've set this host to thirty hours before... Pooh.
But no, its at 24, again. I'm setting it back to thirty, and suggesting we switch to a two-day cycle for our turns now, though I'll wait to be thirded before I go ahead. I can manage thirty just fine, though I'll have to be anal about checking to make sure it doesn't reset to 24 again. It probably had something to do with that turn mixup, and isn't likely to happen again. And I lost my renegade sage mercenary for no reason whatsover€.

[CLASSIFIED REASONING BLACKED OUT] I hearby declare war on Sauromatia and Caelum. If I can take either capital, it should greatly bolster my deficent economy.

Warning has been issued on turn 15, early summer, year two.
As Sauromatia has fallen, so shall I. Sorry, that didn't come out right. Anyways, I've bumped the game back to 30 hours, bumped it an additional 6 hours just this once.

The game will now host at 17:50 GMT on Sunday December 16th.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Caelum would just like everyone to know that we desire peace, and do not wish a war with anyone--even Fomoria. ; )

If that is what Fomoria wants however, then so shall it be!

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Ok, I'm leaving right now. If we could get a longer turn duration for the next three days, I'd really appreciate it. I hope to make these turns but I am unsure if I will have internet access at my hotels.

Thanks, Lazy!

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

What the hell, Lazy_Perfectionist hasn't been sending in his turns for the last... 2, soon to be 3 turns!

Did he quit playing without notifying us?

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Are you sure, Sensori? I haven't noticed any "xxx has staled" or whatever messages. --How do you tell when someone stales out, anyways?

I would be really surprised if LP just quit playing. He seems a dedicated player, what with the Valhalla thread, and so forth. And he has a rather sizeable army (80+ units, iirc) that he's been growing in his castle on our mutual border.

--On the other hand, this was the turn he was supposed to attack me, and he hasn't. I simply presumed he was going to build up a bit more first (a mistake on his part!), but maybe something has indeed gone wrong.

Still, this can be cleared up easily enough. LP, are you out there? ; )

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

You can tell it by, first, him never sending turns in before the timer runs out in LlamaServer. Second, you can tell it by going to Admin options and checking Staling data (same LlamaServer thing). You'll see Fomoria has 3 stales in a row, and he hasn't said a word about going anywhere or doing anything. Plus, he's the Admin, which means we can't push the timer off anywhere.

You won't get a "Someone has staled" news thing ingame. Only the staler gets that info.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

I cant play any turn over this weekend. if timer can be set it would be good to me

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Ah, thanks Sensori. Good to know.

Heh. Wow. Lanka has also staled out 3 times. --In fact, everyone in this game has at least once, except you and me. Strange...

LP has staled again. It's definite: LP is MIA. And he was our moderator. Since practically half the players will be absent over the weekend, I've sent an 'URGENT!!!' PM to llamabeast explaining the situation, and asking him to delay the hosting of our game. I'm hoping to avoid any further stales.

Who knows? Maybe the extra time will allow LP to return from whatever limbo he vanished into...

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Sorry, I didn't get the PM in time, but it looks as if everyone got their turns in on time apart from LP - who does indeed look like he might be missing. Hopefully he's just had some technical difficulties.

IndyPendant asked me to postpone the next hosting till 11pm on the 24th, and then put it on 48 hour timer. Does that sound okay?

PM me if anything else needs to be done. Don't want people staling.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Thanks, llamabeast. And no worries; I had sent you that message in response to LP staling out again, so you delayed the right turn. And that delay should be plenty, based on MartialDoctor's request.

The 48-hour thing was my own initiative, based on the fact that it's the holidays coming up. We can go back to 24 or 30 if everyone prefers.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

No matter how unintended Lazy's disappearance was, he has greatly detracted from the fun of the game by starting a war with a nation and then buggering the hell off. I'm seriously thinking about going AI because the game is, by no means, fair at this point, and it's solely due to Lazy's declaration of war and disappearance, giving Caelum an unfair advantage not only in the war but also in the whole game.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

cmon, the only favored nation is yours since fomoria was your main threath with their water breathing giants.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Well, I can understand Sensori's frustration--to a point. I did gain an advantage by LP's disappearance, that's undeniable.

However.

I also started at a severe *disadvantage* by my random starting position. Before LP went AWOL, I had pretty much resigned myself to using this game as a sandbox to learn some more from whatever mistakes I ended up making, before I went under.

At best, things have balanced out so that I now have a fighting chance at winning the game. And that's at best. Which if anything should make people happy; more challenge, better game, etc.

And Torin does have a point, Sensori; with Fomoria gone, Atlantis only has one other nation that can challenge you in the water (before late-game). Your position is actually more secure, now--particularly since I have no intentions of fighting any nation that doesn't attack me first. (For a while, at least.)

And, well, at the risk of offending Sensori with a bit of an elbow in the side...I didn't see him crying foul--*at all*--over my and (I've now discovered) Fomoria's unbelievably crappy starting positions, which initially gave the other players that 'unfair advantage' he speaks of... ; )

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

--Oh, and I have just finished sending a PM to llamabeast. Anyone have any objection to my taking over as moderator in LP's absence? I don't mind stepping aside of someone else wants the job.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Uh, obviously I didn't whine about your "crappy starts" because my start (if you can call "I gots a home province of a nation in the 15+ provinces I got at start, unfairly uneven start for meh" as a crappy start ;p), as a water nation in a game with a snaky sea, was crappy by default. The fact that my position is "secure" in the sea is a joke, since that never has actually won games for water nations and it's the same as me being almost unable to interact with the rest of the world cuz my troops suck on land compared to the rest.

And... After having killed Sauromatia you had a "winning chance" (you were as large as all other nations tbh), and you had two capitals which meant a gigantic boost to your gem and regular income. Now you have by far the strongest bid to victory and you will soon have 3 capitals which will make your gem/regular income totally insane, and you become almost twice as large as any other nation. All this WITHOUT A FIGHT. There's a slight difference there somewhere (as in between having a mere "chance at winning" and having by far the greatest chance for winning since you are by far the largest nation with least actual fighting), but I guess you just dun wanna notice it.

I wouldn't call a game where one nation gets to grow into gigantic proportions with no fighting a "better" and/or "more challenging" game, but rather a "retarded" and/or "not worth my time" kind of game. :p

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Yeah, sure, he was a "big threat" with giants that basically have the same ability as everyone else's units with water breathing items. They're poor amphibians after all. And you really think that a nation who gains ALL OF FOMORIA'S LANDS is less favored by his destruction than me? That's just... Uh... Not very bright. So if Arcoscephale, hypothetically, destroyed Lanka who wouldn't even fight back, that would somehow favor you more than Arcoscephale, too, I guess?

That just makes no sense.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Sensori,

Yes, Indy did get an advantage due to Lazy's drop... and I don't know why he dropped since he doesn't seem like to the type to do so. Something must have come up in his personal life.

Anyways, there is still plenty of game to be played. Just because something unpredictable came around that gave him a strong advantage, there is no reason to drop out. Indy has not won the game and it is far from over.

And, Indy, I have no problem with you becoming the new moderator.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

My apologies. I'm out of the game and won't have the energy to resume.

It's not technical problems, or game problems. Kind of got caught up in the holidays and family members both welcome and unwelcome.

I found it tough during regular days to find the energy to complete my turns and come up with strategies. When I've got an aunt across the hall snoring thunderously, and talking to voices only she can hear at odd hours of the night... I really should have said something earlier. And that's just a fourth of the time.

I'm sorry about all this.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Could you at least switch yourself to AI to speed things up...?

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Well, this much I can do, at least:

I've changed the timer to 48 hours, and I've changed the hosting time to happen in one hour (2:25 GMT). --I was going to change the timer to 28 or so hours, but Arco didn't get his turn in until sometime within the last few hours, so I'm not going to lower the timer from 48 unless I hear from everyone that they're okay with that.

I'll continue to monitor the llamaserver page, and move the hosting time forward once everyone gets their turns in, unless I hear from someone that they'd rather I didn't.

That should help speed things up a bit... ; )

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

I meant that if Lazy_Perfectionist could turn himself AI so we wouldn't instantly go up to the max time every time. That's all the speeding up the game needs really.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

After some effort, Caelum is finally reaching Const 6, and we are opening the table for trades. We can make pretty much anything that does not involve fire and blood. If there's anything you would like, PM me and we should be able to work out a fair deal. (I'm a big believer in win-win deals...; )

--IndyPendant.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Something's come up. I'm gonna need a sub, fastish. Gonna make a thread about it. If I can't find a sub, well, I'll have to turn Atlantis AI.

Wish me luck. ;p

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Sorry to see you go, Sensori. Looks like you found a sub, which is good. I hope that whatever has come up for you is a good thing.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Heh. That's gotta be a bit of a pisser for whoever cast that Mind Hunt on Ermor's home province...and fried my poor, innocent scout hiding deep in enemy territory...; )

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

We mourn your loss. But we are also a little offended that you prefer to our great capital as "enemy territory".

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

GG Martial doctor, that castle finally went down.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Yeah, that was quite a drawn out battle between us. Nice job holding out for so long.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Oh, and just to let you all know, I will be traveling over the next few weeks and may have trouble getting to my turns. So, if you see me miss a turn, that would be the reason.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

I have postponed Elli's hosting for an extra day to see if that gives MD enough time to get his turn in. I don't want to delay it later than that, since his post could mean that he won't be able to play at all for the full two weeks. If any of the other three object, I can bring it back down to host at the regular 48 hours.

It's still on quickhost, if he does get his turn in sooner.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Thanks for the extra time; appreciate it.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

I have written an AAR of this game since I lost.
the link is in my signature.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Bah. I'm chickening out of this post. It would have been a really cool one if it's correct though. ; )

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

I've extended the hosting by 24 hours again for MD, just in case. Not sure how much good it will do, though; he staled last turn, which means it's 4 days now since he's played a turn.

Again, I hesitate to extend our turn longer because I don't want to end up pausing the game for a week or something.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Ive read a post that he will be traveling a few weeks. perhaps he will miss many turns.

Re: Elli (Closed, Readying)
 

Yeah, I am back now... I hope that I my timing out hasn't kept you guys too much. I had no internet access for the last week and a half.

Hopefully these turns I have missed haven't made things too bad for me either :-)

War!
 

Hrm. We've dropped to the second page. Well, let's liven things up a bit.

Caelum dissolves our NAP with Arcosephale, and declares WAR! It is currently Turn 60. On Turn 63, we can each give our minions the commands to invade, and all is fair game!

--IndyPendant.