Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

I have played WoG in SP to check it [not the last version though] and just started MP game on it [turn4].

Twan made it and suggests to play on cumulative VP of 3. From what I know about mechanics of VP they are given at the first summer month of a year. And you do not need to keep them in a row, for 3 VP you need to have that province for 3 first months of any years.

There are I think 8 provinces connecting to the center island + water provinces around it [8 too, I think], co 16 including 4 gateways.

I don't know how many cumulative VP we would need for team-play. Oh, do not set any additional VPs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Gateway is just a name. There is simply long arrow connecting gateway to the center island. So a player doesn't have to go through plains but can go through caves instead.

P.S. I am not so heavily for WoG, I am just really a huge supporter of making the map as balanced as possible [I wish Twan set every indie province on the map to make it equal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif]. I know that not wrap-around provinces are not fair.


I haven't check the map Dr. P suggested, I have nothing against non-water maps, but it is just me.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

There are two different VP systems.

In one system, you have to control X VP provinces, and then you win.

In the other system, each VP province you control gives you one VP/year. I forget when in the year the VP accrue. This is the system that I (not to mention the designers) recommend if you want to control game length.

It's also a nice system because it becomes more difficult (albeit not impossible) to win in a single turn by ambushing a bunch of VP provinces at once.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Ok, Victory Points are settled then. I think 2 will be enough (map readme recommends 2-4). Think about the length: 6 teams charging to the center (one player needs the points, not a team), taking few years to travel there, at maximum. Then, the province will be always controlled by someone (if teammates organize, they will try to get the second point to the player from the team who got the first one) and after six years of center fight, if the game has not ended, each team should have a victory point. Next team to get one wins. Traveling included, this would be 8 years maximum, or 76 turns. So with 24h quickhost, it would take 76 turns max. And this is the absolute maximum IMO. I think that would not be too much.

Edit: is there a connection from land provinces around the island to it? Zeldor's post would tell that, but there seems to be no land connection. But there apparently can be, and if so, there should be connection from land, otherwise water nations gain an advantage.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

I might want to change nation choice for synergy with my teammate - will that cause any problems?

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Since you are not playing water nation that's ok.

And everyone else have this opportunity too. But for the water nations, it would be good that they remained.

When you have absolutely sure about your nation, start making pretenders already (mine is ready). Then we just need Llamabeast to set the game up.

Checked the center province connections: The Victory Province has a land connection from both sides. 10 provinces from you can access the province, as for total.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

FrozenFalcon:

I have just checked to be sure:

- 2 land connections from plains [one north, one south]
- 4 gateways
- 4 water provinces around it

The central island has:
- Sphinx 6E6A6D, with stone idol and gems
- Celestial General, with Hell Sword, Spirit Helmet, Jade Armor, Chi Shoes, Pendant of Luck, Amulet of Resilience
- Lord of War with Sword of Swiftness, Shield of Gleaming Gold, Horned Helmet, Boots of the Messenger, Amulet of Missile Protection, Ring of Regeneration
- few Crushers

[of course it could change in newer map versions].

And with team game I think 3-5 VP are better, counted for a whole team, not one player [so set a double limit for a player and end game manually if one team has enough VP].

P.S. If one player from a team dies and he had like 2 VP cumulated, does that team lose that VP or keep them?

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Oh, standard settings or a big higher [125 or 150] for gold? Just asking because I want to make pretender http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Hmm, FrozenFalcon's 2VP calculation is pretty cool. 76 turns is not too long at all. I can see that even 3VP would probably be fine (as it's unlikely that all 6 teams will keep on swapping control of the VP province).

It will be a crazy and bizarre game, with almost all attention focussed in one area. But while it will be a strange game I guess the VP thing will make it interesting and quite intense. Good work on converging on a decision.

Dominions will not handle the fact that teams will share VPs, so that'll have to be done manually, i.e. say you are going for 3 VPs, player 1 has 1 VP, player 2 has 2 VP and they are on the same team, you will just have to declare the game over. The game engine itself won't do that for you.

I can set up the game to accept pretenders whenever (don't need any details at all) - just give me a game name. FrozenFalcon - I heartily approve of your taking dictator status, excellent work. Good to get things organised.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

FrozenFalcon:

You forgot to mention that we use latest Worthy Heroes.

llamabeast:

I think 3 would be better, more strategic options.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Let's have standard gold.

We can settle it as 3 VP:s per team, points for dropped players count too.

I have the newest version of WoG, and I have the same connections to the center. The documentation says that the center is 9 territories away from a starting point, so my guess about 2 years for center is definitely above maximum.

As for battle for VP:s, it takes now 13 years max so someone will definitely have 3 VP:s. And this time will probably be much smaller.

So, it is possible that the game goes on for a long time, but it can end in less than 4 years.

I think we have all settled then, now just Pretenders and server.

And nation from Gregstorm. And all need to download the map and Worthy Heroes mod.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

You need to place nations manually on the map so teams start next to each other. And then we need to use that map, I think. Or just llamaserver? Cause you can get info about starting positions from map file that way?

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

I need to modify the map, but you guys don't need my modified version, only the server does. The map information is, surprisingly, encoded in the turn files the server sends out. Of course you need to download the map anyway so that you have the actual picture.

FrozenFalcon - can you give me a name for the game?

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Can you give us (since we are new) specific instructions on what to download, what to send, etc.?

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Sure. Um, I can't quite face finding the threads to link to right now. But the map is top of the Mods and Maps subforum at the moment. Download the attachment and unzip it into your dominions3/maps folder.

Worthy Heroes is further down the page in the Mods and Maps forum, but I think it's still on the front page. Download it and stick the bits from the zip into the appropriate folders.

I'll post instructions on uploading pretenders once I've created the game (just need a name).

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

World of Geometry
Worthy Heroes

First is the map, latter is a mod. You need to extract the first to your map directory at your dominions directory, and the latter to your dominions directory (it already contains the mods directory assignment itself so at least Winrar can unpack it correctly if you use the dom directory).

The mod needs to be turned on. It can be done at Preferences menu.

When you have your Pretender ready, send it to the host (Llamabeast'll inform us about the proper adress, I guess). You'll find it \savedgames\newlords\ at your dominions directory, it'll look something like mid_yournation_x.2h.

When the game is ready, you'll receive .trn-file, which you have to put a directory named as the game (at /savedgames, you'll have to greate a directory /epikbattel/ (typos intended) and put the .trn-file you'll receive from host there. Then, start dominions, select play existing game, play your turn and select save and exit. At the game directory, you'll now find a file that has the game name and ending .2h (for example, epikbattel.2h). This you send to host. Then host waits for all the files and runs a turn and sents the trn-files and so on.

Hope it became clear. Llamabeast'll fill out if I missed anything or was wrong / vague in something.

So, I've decided the game name will be EpikBattel. Let's set the Pretender deadline on friday of this week; I believe all who have signed have that much time at some point.

Llamabeast will tell all the adresses needed for playing the game; here is the monitoring site for his server, so you can see who have done their turns or who have yet to send their pretenders and so on.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Please remember that you MUST have the mod enabled while creating the pretender, otherwise there can be problem [I think it would reject a pretender].

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Hi Zeldor - can I just ask that you take down/mung the addresses there? I'm really trying to avoid getting got by too many spambots.

All the instructions for submitting a pretender, and later for playing turns, are in my FAQ (linked in my signature).

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Okay, the game is now accepting pretenders. To be explicit about what you need to do:

Firstly, you should only join a game if you've found there's a thread for it on this board, you've read it, and they're still looking for players. Then you should post on the thread saying what nation you'll be. To actually join the game:

- Make sure you have the same mods enabled as the game you're playing in (Preferences->Mod Preferences) although only mods affecting pretender design, such as Conceptual Balance, actually matter
- Go to Game Tools -> Create a pretender god in Dominions
- Go to the savedgames/newlords folder in the dominions directory, and find your pretender file (e.g. mid_pythium_0.2h)
- E-mail the file to: pretenders[ at ]llamaserver[ dot ]net
- Crucially, you must have the game name 'EpikBattel' in the subject line of your e-mail

A few minutes later you should get a confirmation e-mail, and if you check the website (www.llamaserver.net ) you should find your nation added to the list of nations which have joined the game.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Oh, sorry for that. Forgot about that issues http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Is that true for Worthy Heroes? I thought that was only the case for mods that modify the pretender itself? At least I thought I had read that somewhere...

Anyhow, how do you guys separate the pretenders with and without mods? Last time I started a MP game, I don't remember it asking for the pretender to use, it just seemed to pick one...

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Networkingguru:

Well, I think it is not worth taking the risk and as it is newbie game we should all make good habits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

You should know what name you give. But pretenders for the same age/nation are named like mid_mictlan_0.2h then _1.2h _2.2h and so on.

You can create a pretender if you play by network, I think. But with PBEM game exists only [well, almost] on hosting server. And he needs all pretenders to create the game.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

So does llamabeast have the start-location placement taken care of or do you want me to handle that? (I do this a lot and am happy to help.)

Have all of you finalized your nation choices?

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Gregstorm said that he might want to change his nation, but everyone else has decided.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

I'll be out of country w/o Dominions access from around Dec 21-29. Unless other people also plan to take a break around then, I should give up my seat so I don't slow down the game...

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Networkingguru is correct that the worthy heroes mod doesn't matter when making a pretender. Mods only matter if they affect the costs/availabilities of pretenders. Hence conceptual balance can screw things up. But worthy heroes is fine.

Dr P - if you wouldn't mind doing the start positions I would really really appreciate it.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

I will be too having a christmas-holiday at end of december, and I bet many others will be having holidays, so I think we can take a break from game then, is this ok to all?

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

I'm perfectly happy for a Christmas break. It'll take the pressure off people.

On another note, I'll change from Pangaea to Pythium.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Much better to have a Christmas break than force people off the game when we're so close to starting.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

I am sure we should have a break at least 23-27th december.

I know I will need to have a break from 17 to 18 or 19 cause I will be on a plane going home for Christmas. But we should have 48h hosting by then.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

how about we have a quickhost with no time limit during the holidays. That way, if anyone finds the time and wants to they can play, if not, not.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

It seems like a good solution. But I would encourage people in teams to play for each other if it is possible. At least before 23rd and after 26th.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

I like BigandScary's idea there. I will be gone for a few days as well (around the 20th - 23rd) and will not have access to play.

On another note, Niarg and I would prefer playing on a team together. Would it be possible to switch teams?

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Fine with me.

So I guess that means I will be teamed with otthegreat - Marignon

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

I'm going away this weekend so can we start on monday, I'll upload my god then.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

I'll fix the teams on the first post... I hope that this team swapping won't mean much extra work for Dr. P who arranges the player positions.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Um ... so what happened to a start on todayish. I don't really mind, I was too busy anyway, just hope something hasn't happened that I should know about.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

I don't think you've missed anything--I've been checking and it appears that Arcoscephale (ah that delicious unpronouncable name!) only just joined within the past few hours, bringing us to 12 nations. So I guess we can start soon... but I don't think anybody has fired the starting gun yet. Whatever that means.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Do we have the map ready with start locations? Or do we wait for patch 3.12? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Oh whoops, I've been ill and this game had slipped off my radar. I'll try to sort it out later today, but I don't know if I'll have a chance. I think Dr P didn't notice that we asked if he could sort the map out, so I suppose I'd better do it. Not too big a job.

Are teammates meant to be adjacent or opposite?

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Adjacent (As you see water nations pairing with land nations; this is the whole point of needing 2 water nations, so we can have 6 teams and each starting adjacent to their teammate).

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Okay, adjacent it is.

Sorry guys, I really won't be able to start this today. It'll be tomorrow night now. Apologies for the delay.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Yeah, my apologies. I was awaiting the confirmation that Dr. P had switched the teams over. Then I realized, after looking at llamaserver, that everyone was waiting on me, so I quickly made my God.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Damn it, seems that I have forgotten my password. I found a thread about it; it is not retrievable, but master password can open the turn. How does it work? Does the game have a master password? Of course, this could be restarted because we are still at turn one.

I am very sorry people, I thought that I had picked a password that I can remember but apparently not.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

You'll all notice I started the game twice - please use the second one. The first I started by accident with indies 8, which I thought was important enough to be worth a restart (since you would all have designed pretenders for indies 5).

FrozenFalcon - I'll send you the master password. It's not so dodgy to do so with a PBEM game since you can't peek at each other's turns anyway.

Everyone - FrozenFalcon will be the admin for this game, so if you want e.g. a turn postponing, please contact him.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

Thanks, llamabeast.

One more thing: as opposed of what I thought, there seems to be 2 victory provinces (this is due to server setting; I'm not sure if it is Llamabeast's decicion or not). This propably won't be a problem since they seem to be at equal distance from all players; this will only mean that the game will go on shorter time. But still, because of one VP per year, I think the game is going to last for a while.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

It's good to be getting started, though.

For the map, I've just renamed worldofgeometry.tga as worldofgeometry2.tga. I presume that's the correct thing to do.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

I think we may need to restart again.. there seems to be 3 Victory Provinces, and the third one is not balanced. Llamabeast seems to have mixed up the Victory condition settings.

I'll just go them in detail here so we won't need any more restarts.

When making the game, click "Standard Victory" and select "Victory Points (cumulative)". I think we agreed on 3 VP:s and they need to be for the same team, not player. So, Required Victory Points 3, Nbr of 1 vp provinces 1, all others 0.

The Required Victory Points 3 just ensures that the game cannot end before a team has 3 points, but it does not end the game if two players collect the points, so in that case, game will be declared as finished.

Gregstorm: yes. Llamabeast propably renamed the map so he won't lose the original version of it. We just need the picture of the map, but game wants that its name is the same as the map's name so... I may be needlessly complicated, but yes. Rename the picture.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

llamaserver wont accept my turn
says: "2h for unknown game"

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

When loading the game, you need to have the trn file in a savegame directory exactly named as the game: EpikBattel. I think that may be the problem.

But we need to restart nevertheless, due to the victory point mess-up.

Re: MA team game for new players, new thread
 

We cannot have more than 1 VP province.