Re: Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!
 

Gabriella*, being a teen girl, had some views about the appearence of steppe horses. I have no idea how accurate they are but she had strong opinions on their supposed appearence.

*Gabriella is the illwinter intern who drew the Bogarus graphics.

Re: Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!
 

That would be very nice. In fact, one of my wishes for the next patch. Some graphics have been about the same since Dom 1. Void Lord and Illithids for one.

Re: Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!
 

The one that bothers me the most is the vampire count. He doesn't look too hot to me. In fact he looks a bit silly. Also longdead could be updated. Worthwhile since they are seen so often.

Re: Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!
 

johan osterman:

Well, what do you expect from a woman? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!
 

A word of warning. This procedure, which used to work in dom-II and older dom-III patches is not working anymore. When applied and when trying to play a turn hosted with 3.10 version and using the backed up exe the game quits with an error that the turn is of an older dominions version.

At this point I was thinking, hey good thing I've backed up my entire dom-III folder.
Wrong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

The game gives the same error:
"Nagot gick fel!
Dominions version is too old.
Get an update at www.illwinter.com
myversion 309 fileversion 314 nation 31"

It could be that I've stumbled on to a corner issue, but for me, I can't play 3.10 turns after upgrading to 3.14.

Re: Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!
 

Ok, my bad archaeolept. Your suggested procedure does indeed work.

I've continued to check the issue and found out that it was actually my fault: apparently for the games I've tested there was created a .h file of version 3.14. That's why they were not loaded correctly when using version 3.10.

The important thing is to be consistent when playing turns either with the older or the newer version.

Re: Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!
 

Checking an old game: The bug is gone, it's just not listed as being fixed.

Re: Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!
 

Great new material as usual. I think that the Bogarus faction adds a nice, new, deliciously bloody spin on the Late Ages.

Unfortunately, there seems to be a strange graphical issue that cropped up for me after installing the patch. Most unit graphics and other icons (including nation flags, forts, temples, etcetera) have lines along the outside, like where the edges would be on a box around them. Similarly, there seem to be "tears" that manifest as long lines both horizontally and vertically across the entire map. The lines make it look as if the map has been "folded" and then opened again, leaving creases. I think that the lines even show up on some of the main interface screens as well.

Is anyone else having this problem? I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere else on the forums at least.

Re: Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!
 

I would have to agree with Gabriella that those do look like good steppe horses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
they are squat and have more endurance than the bigger chargers uses for most European knights.
So therefore after initial annoyance, and after I realized they are supposed to be Russians. Then the fact that they use steppe ponies makes totally sense, since of course any good historian knows that Russia is on the steppe (i am historian by trade incidentally.)
And for those who don't know, the steppe is the huge grass plain that stretches from the Ukraine all the way to Mongolia, quite an awesome piece of geography. It is prime horse archer land historically speaking.

Oh also Illwinter, thank you again for such an amazing nation! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I really enjoy the thematic feel of this nation and all nations.

Re: Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!
 

I suggest taking a few screenshots (press PrintScreen/PrtScr, then paste into your favourite image editor) and starting a new thread. I know that small folds come from how Dominions handles huge maps, but it could be that the last patch changed that somehow. It'd be easier to determine if you can post some pictures.

Re: Bogarus Rises! Dominions 3.14 Now Available!
 

Thanks!

3.14 Bug Fixes?
 

Also doesn't say anything about T'ien Ch'i national anti-aging spell being fixed - it adds years to age instead of subtracting them!

Re: 3.14 Bug Fixes?
 

I may have missed this somewhere but, does this patch cover all of the previous patches or do I need to download them all in order?

Sorry, I am new to this...

Re: 3.14 Bug Fixes?
 

It should cover all of the previous patches.

Re: 3.14 Bug Fixes?
 

Just wanted to add that the graphics in Bogarus are really top notch and I like the fact they're a little different from the rest of the basegame graphics because it gives the nation a unique flavour.

Some notes
 

Firstly, the appearance of Russian folklore-based faction is certainly fun. Especially for those who know that there very few sources on this folklore, and those that exist are usually from later periods. I was certainly very pleased by Simargl (accidentally, it WAS sometimes depicted armed with scimitar!) and various lady birds!
However, some other things give impression that it's really a project for 2 (or more) factions from a different time periods. For example, Druzhina cavalry is certainly from a "heroic Age" (historically, it existed in 10th-14th centuries, and in legends it is mostly related to Knyaz Vladimir Krasnoe Solnyshko ("The Red Sun") - a character based on rulers of 10th - Vladimir Svyatoslavitch and 12th - Vladimir Monomach - centuries), while sectants such as Khlysts appeared after 17th century (accidentally, Skoptzy was quite another subsect, while the most famous Khlyst was Grigorij Rasputin - "lover of a Russian Queen", and also hypnotist and faith healer!) and never worked for church or state establishment (some sects even were pacifistic). So these should be features of different factions/ages (or sectant be heretics but this would be somewhat too powerful for stealthy troops). As for mages - historically Volkhvs and Znakhars were depicted as Nature-oriented.
I may try to make a mod on this theme, but in late age it may become too similar to late-age Avalon, and such duplication isn't much fun...

Re: Some notes
 

These are from different posts, and that's all that has been said about it. No idea whether the "van" in the name refers to Vanheim vanir or not.

Re: Some notes
 

It does. See the Vyedun and Vyedma units. Their descriptions reference the Vanir.

Re: Some notes
 

Nice! I hadn't noticed them at all. Are they available anywhere ATM, like magic sites or special poptype? I don't remember seeing them in the Bogarus recruitment queue.

Re: Some notes
 

Not available. They're Vanarus units.

Re: Some notes
 

AFAIK, Simargl was a fire God, who sometimes turned into a winged dog. 'Druzhina' is a word for a Prince's elite host of warriors and bodyguards, it was not exclusive to Vladimir. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif All Princes (Knyaz') had their Druzhinas.

Re: Some notes
 

Bogarus is an anachronism, but so are many other nations. It is composed of national romantic folklore, kievian armies, combined with a touch of later tsar age russia and orthodox (and sectarian) christianity.

It could probably be split, but since there are just three eras in dom3 (this has started to become a gripe for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ) i felt that all these parts had to go into LA Bogarus. I would not mind playing a mod in the lines mentioned above.

The folklore part will be more nature oriented in an earlier era, when the land was held by conquering vanir.

Re: Some notes
 

druzhinas existed before 10th century too, so no problem with that.

Re: Some notes
 

Certainly! Unless much later, than "serving Knyaz" appeared at Moscow court, of course... (but this is MUCH later).
But as you must remember, bylinas mostly include a very certain Prince (if you wish) as a character. Or do you remember ones mentioning others?
As for Simargl - there are really few sources. IIRC, it's of Persian origin and some ideas on its functions in Slavic/Rus mythology may be taken from Iranic sources... It's image was certainly often used as one of a guardian, that's for sure! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

To Zeldor:
There was no problem with it existing before - just with it not existing later !

Re: Some notes
 

I have to admit that the first time I saw the Simargl in Dom3 I thought of the Simurgh, which is a Persian-area mythical dog-bird.

Re: Some notes
 

To Kristoffer:
Thank you! Being somewhat of a fan of 16th century, I may be just a little touchy with this interesting age being mixed with earlier times... And while we were students, one of my friends made a model of Ivan Grozny monarchy in his fantasy world. It was much fun http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
And sectants are, from my own point of view, surely due to be given their own faction.. Maybe Cossack-based: as you may know, some Cossacks actually were sectants and some even migrated to Turkish empire in 18th century - only to escape to have to serve Tsaritsa and her "heretical" church! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Some notes
 

It would be interesting to see Polish husars if we allow later units http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The ultimate cavalry.

Re: Some notes
 

It would be interesting to see Polish husars if we allow later units http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif The ultimate cavalry with fear aura.

Re: Some notes
 

Thats because bylinas are centered aroud several heroes who lived at about the same time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Ilya Muromets, Dobrynya Nikitych and Alesha Popovitch, mostly. But druzhinas arent necessarily assotiated with that particular Knyaz, or any bogatyr at all.
Bogarus gave me impression of being mostly inspired by 12-14th century Russia (with some splash of Christianity, and sects from later time, as K. alredy confessed) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif, so Druzhina cavalry is absolutely not an anachronysm in it.
By the way. Knyaz "Vladimir Krasno Solnyshko" from these Bylinas is actually Vladimir I, around 960-1050, who baptized Russia. So everything makes lots of sense, to think of it.

Not much is known about Russian paganism, thats true. Christian clergy did its best to wipe all traces of pagan traditions, and they succeeded. But from what I've read, Simargl could indeed be borrowed from Iran in the ancient times.
Well, as I see it - Rudra was initially a God in India, and later there were many Rudras as his companions. Or, for example, the Beregini. Initially it was a name of one specific Goddess; there was just one Bereginya. Later slavs believed that there are many other Bereginyas as well, protective spirits of the shore. Here's one, by the way - http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%...D%D1%8F_01.jpg

So why not having winged dogs named after Simargl, his minions or something - seems quite logical to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

P.S.

And why, I ask of thee, did Vans 'conquer' Bogarus? Logically, they were invited to rule! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Some notes
 

> And why, I ask of thee, did Vans 'conquer' Bogarus? Logically, they were invited to rule!

They established a trading post with the more fully nature oriented finno-ugric nation that was there in the EA, and eventually became the masters of the land. The vanir were never numerous and soon they disappeared altogether, the eventual Bogatyr being the only reminiscent of their glorious (?) past.

Re: Some notes
 

Ah. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I thought its about Rurik and the Norman theory.
I mean, Rurik's descendants were perceived as Russian princes in every sense of the word, so I thought that vanir wouldnt be treated as some outlandish conquerors as well.

Re: Some notes
 

Trade/conquest. Goes hand in hand in most cases. It is probably a bit Rurikish, but I'm not yet clear on the legacy of the finno-ugric remnants of the population and their role.

Re: Some notes
 

Remnant is probably the word you're looking for, Kristoffer. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Vanarus seems to me to be as KO said, a nation ruled by Vanir who came and conquered the lands of the Rus or assumed leadership through trade influence. It's what I first thought when I heard the name way back when. That would be a very close historical parallel to the Vikings who sailed east along the rivers and established fairly significant outposts in Russia in the first millennium, around 800-1000 AD.

So EA (or MA, depending) Vanarus would be something like an amalgamation of Vanir, the Rus and Finland circa 1000. When you look at the Vyedun and Vyedma units that are already included (but currently not used) in the game, they are very much like a mage or shaman in the Finnish tradition would be. Finland has historically been a battleground between Sweden and Russia and there has been very much a mixing of influences from both directions here, just that we speak a language which made it very, very difficult to annihilate our pagan beliefs (it did eventually happen, but there is a lot of data available because it disappeared so late).

Re: Some notes
 

Vyedun and Vyedma are both 100% Russian words. Maybe Finnish too, I dont know. For Vyedun, literally 'Knower', I cant think of an exact analogue, its somethink like 'one who's got arcane knowledge', and Vyedma is 'Witch'. Well, maybe not exactly the type of witch Marignon hunters are looking for, but its an exact translation. Baba Yaga is an archetypical 'Vyedma'.

'Rus led by Vanir' was my first thought when I've read this word on this forum too, of course. Vikings, also called 'varyags' in Russia (supposedly derieved from norse vaeringjar), were indeed a major part of life in Rus as traders, druzhina warriors or boyars (nobility). Surely, Vanir would have an even greater influence.

---

By the way - do Firebirds bring good luck indeed, or is it just a superstition? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I mean, is it worth summoning a few in my cities just to fend of misfortune, or not?

Re: Some notes
 

Vydeun isn't a Finnish word, but interestingly enough, there's a Finnish word 'tietäjä' that literally translates as "knower", that was used for shamans and witch-doctors and perhaps wise people in general. So it could be that the two words were formed the same way in both languages, or perhaps one is directly translated from the other.

EDIT: Firebirds do have a very small chance of creating a good event.

Re: Some notes
 

'Remnants of finno-ugric population'? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Afaik, varyags didnt commit no genocide, and slavic population wasnt finno-ugric, although these were present as well. ))
...
Having browsed some sources - yes, it should be classified as conquest. Though Rurik was invited by Novgorod to become a Knyaz/Prince, his son Oleg waged a military campaign, unifying the eastern slavs under his rule.
Its just that nobody now perceives him as an outlander; historians refer to him as of a great Russian prince.

Hussars
 

To Zeldor:
You played WarHammer, too? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Yeah, Tsarina Kattarina rulezz! Especially 5th ed. version! But I digress... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif
Actually, Poland was at the time a military power in itself & remained so until 18th century, when their nobility's pride got better of them & their government system turned into a complete anarchy. It probably deserves a separate faction, as well - especially as West Slavs' folklore strongly differed from East ones' (though I am hardly familiar with the former - in fact, I know Caucasus or Finnish one better... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif)
However, Polish hussars actually WERE present in Tsar's army - as mercenaries, along with German reiters. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif I may try to make them a capital-only unit to accurately represent them being few in numbers...

More historical near-OT...
 

To Kuritza:
Well, you are just wrong: Ilya Murometz (probably Murmanin, or Morovlenin - such versions were also used) may be a combination figure (he is also noted in German tale originating at about 11th century; some Jew enthusiasts even say that he was a Jew & his surname is actually Morovlenin, meaning "wall-builder" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif), but if bylinas' hero is based on actual man - than he is most probably Ilya 'Chobotok' ("The Boot" - for fighting the steppe invaders with such a weapon!)) Pechersky, living at 12th century, buried at Kiev monks' ossiary and later declared a saint by an Orthodox Church;
Dobrynya Nikitich is most probably based on Vladimir's uncle - however, there are 7 warriors of the same name in annals...;
Alexander 'Alesha' Popovitch, afair, also lived at 12th century & became famous for declaring that it's wrong for Russian warriors to fight each other serving local knyaz & far better for all to fight common enemies serving Veliky Knyaz of Kiev (who was at the time formally considered a head of state - though most times he didn't even bother to try to order local knyaz...);
Bogatyr Zhydovin ("The Jew") is probably based on Khazar Kaganate's warriors - & so his prototypes may be placed at 9th-10th century - or else this figure appeared in bylinas much later, probably in 15th-17th century;
Volga / Volkh Vseslavich - the only one of bylinas' figure who can be considered a "mage" - may be based on Knyaz Oleg (Helgi) Veschij ("The Wise") - who was regent before Vladimir's father;
et cetera, ad nauseam - there are, as I've heard, even bylinas about Ermak Timofeevich - a completely historical figure who conquered Siberia at 16th century... So bylinas, as is the case with other legends, place together heroes and situations from different times and places & often use combination figures/situations. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
By the way, would you be so kind as to give me title or link to any SCIENTIFIC work which states so. I've certainly seen it enough in popular books which so love simplify everything.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif
Please, spare me Neopaganistic slogans. There are much simpler reasons: the Slavic people, unfortunately, had no written culture until appearance of Christian missionaries - and those were simply not interested in writing down things they considered to be just a bastardization of Hellenic paganism (while pagans did not want to learn anything from Greek monks). The truly common written culture formed in Novgorod only well after Christianization. While Ancient Greeks, as well as Scandinavians, had written culture during their heroic age, and Arabs hail from the region where written culture was relatively common even before their advent... See, no need to make "Public Enemies #1" of Christians and form a historical OGPU to fight them... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
As for Simargl - I have noted this earlier, while the version of one figure becoming many, while popular afaik among modern occultists, and probably true in cases of Indian mythology, was not proved to actually occur in mythology of other peoples. I even suspect that true situation was often the other way around... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
Well, firstly, I've seen it before in some flavor text here... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
Also about Rurik - he was certainly invited to try to make order in Novgorod melting-pot... from Staray Ladoga, which, for those who didn't know, is also deep inside Slavic lands (or Finnish - as population here was mixed). While appearance of above-mentioned Oleg in Kiev, as you'd already noted, certainly had all properties of military conquest... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif
To All on Vyedmas, etc.:
I think that etymology from a word meaning "to know" is actually quite common - even in English, "wizard" has common root with "wise". While "magic" is derived from title of Zoroastrian priests and wise-men... However, Finns were actually considered to be mighty sorcerers - certainly by their Scandinavian neighbors, & probably by medieval Rus as well - at least in Pushkin's fantasy poem "Ruslan and Ludmila" which was written in 19th century, sorcerer characters are either Finns, or of Arabo-Persian origin... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And also actual traditions in this respect could be very close for Finns and East Slavs - especially as they lived close to each other for some hundreds of years.

Re: More historical near-OT...
 

Wrana said:
To Kuritza:
There's no reason to believe Jew enthusiasts or these trying to alter an existing second name, which is Muromets, meaning (as you know) 'from Murom'. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Occam's razor principle.
Of course he's a combination hero, but mostly he's based on one particular man, Ilya Chobotok, who was born in Murom as well.
And of course, I am well aware that their prototypes didnt meet. Just as the Thre Musketeers, btw. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But in bylinas, they did - and I was speaking about cultural references Bugarus is probably based upon.

Again, I was speaking about the 'mythical space', where all the popular heroes lived during one 'Age of Heroes' (also check the name of LA Bogarus theme). I know that there's absolutely no proof that Vladimir I is 'Vladimir Krasno Solnyshko'. Between you and me, I also find it very funny that Vladimir I was sanctified, seeing how he committed every known crime during his coming to power.

Spare me your suspicions as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I'm absolutely indifferent towards both Orthodox and Neo-pagans. While what you say is true, Church did oppose Paganism in Russia, and quite actively. Why do you think there are no statues in Orthodox churches? Out of fear that these might be assotiated with idols. Etc, etc - while Christianity was surely embraced quite freely, it had to rival Paganism, and rivalry was fierce.

Re: More historical near-OT...
 

Well, he was somewhat drunk at the time, and also a building engineer by profession... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It just illustrates how much we actually know.
Well, in this case, sorry. But you didn't specify this clearly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif
Also, I would better like "Age of Heroes" as Vanarus - i.e., Medium Era. While in later period I'd prefer (relatively) disciplined Tsar's army, with Strelets & Oprichniks (by the way, the latter are almost only possible candidates for national non-summoned sacred troops!:) )
As for Vladimir (and he shouldn't be used with numerable, being a Kiev Knyaz - the numbers began only from Moscow dynasty - as Tsar Alexander 1st's case clearly illustrates, Alexander Nevsky's being a Veliky Knyaz and father of the founder of the Moscow line) - well, Constantine the Great of Byzantium was hardly better, but also "equal to apostles"
Glad to hear - the latter can be found in quite surprising places! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Yes, I know that there was afierce struggle between Orthodox Christianity and paganism - it just doesn't explain most facts. AS for statues - I'd sooner think that a fact that there ARE ones in Catholic temples could be more close to a real reason... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

mod at last, sorry
 

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...vc=#Post594064