Re: New Finnish OOB
 

After some intense gaming I've come up with a few notes.
- Combat Divers formation seems to have the wrong info text, Combat Divers+ has the correct one
- I can't seem to find a ATGM Platoon/Mech formation using the Spike missile.
- The SPA Battalion formation seems to be missing. I recall having it in the earlier version. Was it removed on purpose?
- The Arctic Leopards scenario has the Mech BG Co driving a Leopard 2. Is this where the mysterious 29th Leopard in a BG goes, because I've really been wondering on this one

I've also been experimenting with some scenario design ideas, but so far they haven't been exactly what I was looking for. The few defencive scenarios I made were fun to design but not exactly a thrill to play since all you get to do is sit there and wait for the enemy to come and eat some HEAT. The best success so far I've had with a scenario involving military police retaking a supply facility from special forces. I think I'll try and make a Mech BG assault, and currently I'm toying with a nice twist. In stead of the same old Fin-Rus battles I might make it against our ancient enemies, the dreaded Swedes!

Edit: Never mind the Mech ATGM, found it.

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

-Affermative on Combat Divers' text
-SPA battalion is there, Formation 152 from 91 to 2020
-That's the 29th http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Also fixed since upload:
-few better/remade pictures
-changed T-54/55 icons to the "black/green" camo ones
-Made 2 Leo company formations; one for PzJBn, other for Mech. In latter you get a BMP-1TJ, the other has normal CV, not a FO capable one as before... Otherwise they are identical.

Hmm... A Mech BG assault scenario with all the units on a huge map (ala Ulf Lundstrom)... Worth a try! If you read "Panssari" -Magazine, you find all the info there. An attack along 2 main attack routes would be doable, as if you only have 1 route, all the units won't fit in the game area's size limit in column formation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I may make a full Panzer Jaeger Battalion's attack scenario, if I find the time...

Zip

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Yeah, there it is, the SPA Battalion. Man, I could've sworn it wasn't there when I checked, just like the Mech ATGM. I wonder if I was playing with the standard OOB by accident http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Edited (re-rearranged, backwards-engineering http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif) the whole OOB so, that now all data from default OOB is on same place in my mod, which means that you can play any scenario involving Finland created using default OOB with the mod's OOB installed without any problems. All the units that do not exist in my OOB but do in default (ISU-152, XA-203+ etc.), are given nation=0, which means they will be used by scenarios using the unit, but the units will not show in encyclopedia nor in buy screen. Otherwise the OOB works and plays just like the current version (except I gave up with the airstrikes, now they're the same as in default with just little edits...), but of course old saves/scenarios with the mod won't work. But it'll hurt only once - the benefit will hopefully overcome the possible negative effects.

Also edited Inf Platoon / Torjuntakomppania so that the previous "support section" (which housed all the Apilas and sniper rifles) is broken into 2 AT-Patrols and 2 snipers, making it more useable and also giving the sniper rifles the accuracy bonuses from the sniper unit.

Also added ITO 05 and 05M formations 2007->.

I will release it shortly and hopefully it'll help reduce unnecessary OOB swapping http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Zip

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

OK, newest version (6.0) ready to download! See the 1st post and there you'll also find the attachment!

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Awesome! Another new scenario! I'll give it a try right away. Also I like what you've done with the readme file.

-Koh

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Ok, a few notes.

- The SPA Battalion seems to have the first battery operating landing crafts in stead of SPA pieces. I'm almost sure this is not an intended feature

- The spec jaegers no longer have the AGL they had in an earlier version, while the AGL section unit info still describes them being used by special jaegers. Was this intentional?

- The readme instructs you to unzip unit_pics.zip while the file is actually called pictures.zip.

Other than that, great work! The OOB is better than ever and the new scenario was extremely enjoyable to play.

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Will take a look, thanks!

Did you notice the increased difficulty in Arctic Leopards? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

OK, bug with SPA Bn fixed. Also some little tweaks done, such as wrong small arms (RK) on support units early on changed to more correct ones. The AGL+Spec Jgr (or lack of) is intentional. Will fix readme. With the fix there'll also be AI picklists for the mod, so you may now play against modded finns with AI bying more rationally. The finnish AI is very infantry heavy, especially pre-1980s. I've written then up till 91 now, so will take some time to finish.

Zip

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Great stuff man;). Btw, how I can get those great sound files work with other nations too? It could be cool to hear with others too;)...

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

OK, newest version (6.1) uploaded and available as in the 1st post of the thread. If no more bugs are found I think this one is "it" for this version of SPMBT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Warhero,
If you wish to use my sound files with other nations, you need to use mobhack edit the nation you wish to use them. In the unit -window the sound number is the one used for movement, and each weapon can be given its own sound. I did not overwrite any old soundfiles with mine.

Zip

PS. Just got decisive victory in latest sce with 150 casualties vs enemy's 505. Lost few tanks mostly due to stupidity. 1st Co pushed a bit past the village before I stopped their attack due to high casualties (mostly received in the village and enemy counter attack that cought me by surprise), and each platoon was on point at least once. 2nd Co took the point and pushed all the way to the southern bridge, suffering only minot casualties. 3rd Co managed well with very low casualties taking all the northern part and also the final objective in south with a jaeger detachement supported by tanks. Biggest casualties were among tanks. After the sce I didn't have a single tank HE shell, and MG ammo was getting low as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Any experiences with the scenarios by others?

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Awesome, yet another new scenario! I'm gonna give this a try later today.

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Ok, I just finished the new scenario. I got a decisive victory with 178 casualties and 3 tanks lost. The enemy lost 497. I was done by turn 37 due to a rather relentless tactic of advancing despite casualties until the point platoon was depleted to the point of losing it's combat efficiency completely. The casualties would've been lower but I suffered some unfortunate tank immobilisation to enemy ambushes and air strikes.

Whenever I made contact with the enemy, I always plotted a strong artillery barrages around half a mile ahead of my point to suspected enemy positions. At one point it proved to be extremely helpful as I completely annihilated around a company strong enemy formation moving against me. When my tanks reached the all they found was reduced routed squads with no return fire. All in all, a very nice scenario.

-Koh

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Right then, pojhan poika..., this is a call to arms...

See attachement for Finland at War 1985 scenarios using Zip's OOB...

See youtube link for background story:

Finland at War 1985

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Awesome intro! I am downloading this right away!

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Oh my God! Wulfir is into the film business too! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif
SOMEBODY STOP THIS GUY! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif
Excelent! [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/icon09.gif[/img]

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Whoah Ulf! Great stuff there mate, cool video too!

And now back to Muurola, got work to do! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Zip

PS. Do you mind if I add these scenarios to possible new versions of the mod - would really appreciate it?

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

No worries mate, go right ahead... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

OK, same here, nothing more I can add, it just looks too awesome... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
I was going to use your Finnish OOB as a base for my Cold War mod version in any case, because that's great work you have there, and now I think there will be some scenarios to back up the OOB work as well, if you don't mind.

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Great idea Plasma! It would be really nice to play as Finn in CW mod too! And how about adding Sweden too;)...

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Well, Scandinavia as a whole is planned for the future releases, but I'm not making any promises because Sweden and Finland are going to be tough pieces of work.
That's why I thought it would be interesting to have a campaign or a couple of scenarios to make good use of these OOBs.
[/off topic, sorry for the hijack]

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Cold War mod... nice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Maybe the Finns bought some T-80s etc. instead if the policy of roughly 1/3 western 1/3 finnish 1/3 russian remained? And due to not being able to buy ex-DDR equipment in early 1990's maybe materiel situation in especially armour is not that good?

Zip

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Or Finns joined NATO and reneved all tanks to Abrams etc.;)...

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Glad to see you're interested!
We can discuss the details at length, but preferably not on this thread, I guess.
And don't you worry, I have plans for Finland... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Don't hesitate to PM if you have workable http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ideas for this or other OOBs

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Small update on the OOB since 6.1:

-MLRS now with the Finnish naming, 298 RSRAKH 06
-81mm Mortar 71 with new HE ammo (previously named 81mm Mort 71/90, now 81mm Mortar 71) dates fixed for single mortar and 3 mortar platoon -units (used to be from 1971 onwards, now 1990 onwards)
-Urban Jaegers with following changes: available from 2000 (previously 1995), Urban Scouts and Urban Pioneers as their own unit classes (Guards Scouts, Guards Engineers), weapon configurations and with pictures, Urban Jaeger weapon options now have also satchel charges
-New unit: Polaris 500 6x6 All-Terrain Buggy, used by Urban Jaegers from 2008 onwards (to transport 40mm AGLs) and also available in misc. screen, as other troops also use them, but more irregularily (signal units for laying optical fibre, recce units...)
-Musti Position (fort) now available also from 1962-1994 (bug)
-some revised texts and few new unit pictures

Anything coming to mind from you guys, bugs, stuff missing etc.?

Zip

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

I installed the new version and couldn't notice any changes. Are you sure you uploaded the correct file?

Also 298 RSRAKH 06? Wouldn't 227 RSRAKH 06 make more sense? I've also heard 227 RAKH 07 being used, but that doesn't sound correct to me.

- Koh

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Nevermind, I just noticed that the new version is not quite out yet. But why on earth can't I edit my post. I know I edited it before, it even says so, but the edit post button has disappeared. So yeah, sorry for double posting. But the RSRAKH question still stands.

Huh, so apparently you can only edit your messages for 30 minutes after they have been posted. That's... impractical?

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

The info is from newest issue of Panssari -magazine. It appears the naming "298" comes from the diameter of the launcher tube, not the rocket. 06 due to it being purchased 2006, though the system arrived to Finland in 2007 (with 7 vehicles delivered to date).

Zip

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

I guess that makes sense. It's gonna take a while to get used to that, given how for the last two years or so people have been referring to it as some variation of 227 RSRAKH. Boy are they gonna run into trouble when they buy the ATACMS system for those. How on earth can they name a system that has two different launcher tubes for different kind of munitions :D

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

One possible suggestion for the next version. I've heard from a few second-hand sources that nowadays BV/Nasu equipped platoons have three Bandvagens or Nasus. Since you seem to have a lot of sources avalaible to you, maybe you could look into it.

At least one thing that would hint towards is that someone I know who served as a driver just recently had a refresher training exercise, and he was informed that there are new limits to transporting troops with the Nasu-vehicle. The limit of troops allowed in one vehicle during peace time was so low (ten, I believe) that at least in peace time it would be impossible to transport a jaeger platoon with just two of the vehicles.

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Yeah, those new limitations really make some things difficult. But during war time I believe these limitations are again forgotten. The reason to believe this is that we haven't bought new vehicles to compensate the "lack" of transportation capability after these limitations were introduced. It's the same thing as with other things not allowed to do during piece time, but allowed during war - like firing an APILAS without flak jacket and active+plugs ear protection is a no no nowadays :S

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Probably true, although I theorized that perhaps the recent disbanding of a few wartime jaeger brigades would have freed enough NASU's for the use. Although if such extra vehicles would exist, a much better use would be, in my opinion, to increase the operational mobility of the infantry units.

Another thing, some of the hostile forces in the scenario "Wolverines in the Desert 2012" seem to be broken, probably caused by the 4.0 patch.

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Guess the disbanded brigades were mostly Pasi or Truck -transported. We got only 2 Jaeger Brigades (91) in war-time inventory. In Jääkäriprikaati, Pohjois-Karjalan Prikaati and Kainuun Prikaati they train with BV's/Nasus. One of these is training Brig 05, so those 2 others are training the 91's? If this is the case we know where all those new Pasi -equipped organizations got their XA's from ;)

I will look into the scenario... Propably will also make 1-2 to accompany the new version, when it's ready.

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Insomnia is a funny thing.

Attached is a new scenario using the Finnish OOB mod. The dispute over the Aland Islands heats up, and the Swedes seize the islands by force. Lead your Finnish coastal jaegers to victory and reclaim the islands!

Created the map, scenario and playtested it after I failed to get any sleep tonight. The text file probably has a ton of small typos and probably a few bigger ones as well, but I really needed to get this out so I could go get some sleep. The scenario is playtested and works fine, shouldn't be any problems with the scenario itself.

Feedback would be very much appreciated. I'll probably release a new version with all the typos fixed in a few days.

- Koh

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

The swedes have invaded the Taffel-chips factory? Noooo!

I will take a look at this one, Koh!

Zip

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Can this be played on both sides or just Finns?

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Just Finns, due to the AI being really really bad in amphibious landings. It should make an interesting fight with two human players, however.

- Koh

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Thanks Koh, some good work here. Well I ended up with a draw. It was pretty fun with all the water and boats. There are spoilers in the rest of this post so if you want surprised don't scroll down.















































My F18's got shot down on their first runs. I had some serious problems with their mortars. They seemed very accurate. I got down to all the flags except one and then some of their smaller units took some flags in my rear area so I had to back up and try and get them. At that point the scenario ended. There also was a Hvy sniper that caused all sorts of issues in the town

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Thanks for the feedback. I'm glad you could enjoy it! Whenever I actually get around to creating scenarios, I try to do something that hasn't been done a million times already. Amphibious landings are one of the rarer things seen in the scenarios shipped with the game.

Also, attached is a newer and probably final version of the scenario. The only changes are cosmetic map related changes, mostly involving a few road patches, some spell checking in the text file and as the only gameplay altering change, one unit has been fixed with the correct type of ammunition for one of it's weapons, potentially making the scenario slightly harder. Nothing worth dling the new version for if you've already beat the scenario, but in the off chance that someone who hasn't already downloaded the scenario and is interested pops by this is what you should download rather than the old version.

- Koh

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

I may have to rework the scenario, if you don't mind, to make it against the Russians. My best friend is a Swede and WAS in the Coastal Jaegers :-)

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Feel free to. And if you do, please share it with the rest of us. I kinda enjoyed the mix of a landing operation and urban combat and I think I might enjoy it even more if I didn't know exactly what I was up against and where to expect them.

- Koh

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

try this... I tried to keep the forces similar to what you had and the deployment somewhat similar.

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

I gave it a go. It was a nice variation. I managed to get a strong marginal victory, although I did suffer some pretty bad losses as the Russians had some weapons pretty well suited for urban combat.

- Koh

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

I've been working on a little something lately and I though I'd give you a taste of it.

Attached is a scenario, part of an upcoming ten scenario pack based on the book Operaatio Finlandia by Arto Paasilinna. The book tells the tale of a war fought in 1977 between Finland and Sweden, launched by ownership disputes over the Aland Islands and the poor treatment of the Finnish and other immigrants by the Swedish ultra nationalist government. The pack will feature scenarios with the player taking the Finnish side as well as scenarios with the player taking the Swedish side.

And yes, the scenarios use the modified Finnish OOB.

- Koh

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Ok, I've got a question for Zipuli. Or anyone else if someone happens to know. The modified Finnish OOB has the Finns using Bv 202 from 1963 onwards. Despite my best efforts I couldn't find any information regarding the use of Bv 202s in Finland. So my question is, did Finland really have Bv 202s and who were they used by? I'd imagine that the Pohja Jaeger Brigade and Lapland Jaeger Brigade would be strong candidates, but again I've found no info about their use anywhere.

Are they in the OOB by mistake (which would nicely force me to redo a scenario or two) or were they really used?

- Koh

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Latest version is soon ready. Changes after last reports:

-Patriot is out, NASAMS seems to be winning the race. NASAMS added instead. I guess we will know during this year...
-New Scania and Sisu trucks (delivered 2009->)

Koh I believe the BV202 has never been used by the FDF, I will also look into this in the OOB.

Zip

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

File for Koh (oob 6.2 unfinished)

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Finally received the books on FDF trucks etc. BV202 was in fact in use, 15 of them in total. Of course not numerous enough to equip any infantry units organically with them, but they will be available in the OOB in the MISC page, no longer in the infantry menu as APC for formations.

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Newest version is in testing and should be ready soon. There has been changes since 6.1, here's a list of some of them:

-Corps Artillery formation added (12 tube battalion used by high command, uses 130, 150, 152 K 89 and 155 K 83 guns)
-JSOW (C-version) used in Hornets 2010-->
-Cavalry is removed from use -47 (as mounted on horses that is, cavalry units remain, but they train dismounted like any other infantry)
-Added big bunch of vehicles (utility vehicles, trucks, prime movers) used by FDF. Most important models are added (thanks to Mäkipirtti's excellent books on subject I just received)
-Changed some naming routines in formations for simplicity's sake
-DM53-A1 (120mm L44 WG01, penetration 87) used 2007 -> (Rheinmetall (maker of the ammo) gives info that Finland and Denmark use DM53-A1 (in news archive 2006, about danish procure of DM33A2 PELE and DM53 and again about danish tests of DM53). In Finland the only source talking about buying of new ammunition is the Panssari -magazine 1/2004, which states that new "DM33A2 will be bought in 2007, and this is basically a DM63 with minor differences in propulsion, allowing it to be fired without changing the K600 recoil mechanism to the K900". With very little info available about this procurement (in Finnish sources only 1 mention with it seems wrong name given???), it seems quite certain DM53-A1 is used, as Rheinmetall knows to mention it...)
-13 new scenarios by me and Koh (+the previous ones and the Ulf's pack of 10 scenarios)
-plus a lot of minor fixes and tweaks

Zip

Re: New Finnish OOB
 

Good work with Finnish forces weapons and vehicles!
I am truly sorry to rain on your parade BUT:
What TOE's (harjoitusmaaravahvuus A1) did you use since your formations do not always match official TOE documents from 1955 to 1990's.? :confused:
Good example is Pr80 organization that is a mix of Pr70 with different weapons.
Anyway, please don't take me wrong, you have done a huge job so far!:up: