Re: Tie\'n Ch\'i still alive
 

I've not had any problems with the emails.

Since as Ulm I'm running perhaps the preeminent forging nation, I'm open to trade. Especially now that Construction research has actually gotten somewhere...

Well Vanheim isn\'t
 

And so, the People of Vanheim have fallen...

I learned few lessons from this game:
1. I will not use my broken right ctrl any more.
2. Even when lost a good mage, I try to make sensible decisions.

Re: Well Vanheim isn\'t
 

Is there money in water provinces? I know there shouldn't be, but Edi keeps taking them.

Re: Well Vanheim isn\'t
 

Even without gold or gems, water provinces can still possess a strategic value.

Re: Well Vanheim isn\'t
 

It was a valiant fight Vanheim, and you certainly had a tough time against Abysia and Ulm.

To be perfectly fair to you (and I imagine you'd like to hear this), I confess you caused me significant anguish and suffering in a variety of ways.

I'll PM you with a detailed account of the results of your exploits, as despite the anguish I am not bitter, and think the information may be somewhat helpful to you as a learning experience.

Take care in your next game.

Re: Well Vanheim isn\'t
 

It seems that niefel is stalling for a couple of turns now. Anyone knows what happened to him?

Re: Well Vanheim isn\'t
 

He kept losing battles and probably got demoralized and gave up. If he would've equipped his jarls and sent them into battle instead of using them as casters he probably would've fared better.

Regarding Niefelheim
 

That's quite an assumption. Any number of reasons why (but only a few of them good). Best to let Niefel explain.

That's completely correct, however, staling for 4 turns kind of takes the wind out of the sails of the defense of one's nation.

As to the staling for 4 turns with no mention, this sort of behavior should really not be acceptable. Outside of death (one's own or family) there's never a reason to not ask for a sub or not go AI. The unfair advantage given to the neighbors (in this case Ulm and C'tis) is tremendous.

Unfortunately, I can do nothing but look on in protest. I am however, left with a sour taste in regards to MP play.

Edit:
After a moment of retrospect, I request a 24 hour delay in hosting to allow a sub to be found. If one cannot be acquired, the admin should turn Niefel AI before the next turn. Though this action will likely result in only a speedbump for Ulm and C'tis it is still the correct thing to do in my opinion.

Re: Regarding Niefelheim
 

Well being that I was the only one at war with him, that he sent his 10 to 15 man squads of giants at me that got wiped out with the only losses being my skeleton spam and a couple afflictions on my pretender, then with his lack of response, I'd say that it isn't "quite an assumption". He had no answer to me, and instead of try and figure one out, he quit.

Now as for my actions after he quit, yes I did exploit the lack of control of his troops. I didn't wait until i was sure he was going to stale before submitting my turn, but after the 2nd stale I had a good idea he wasn't coming back. I ask you this. After fighting and killing him on an even field of battle repeatedly, what would you do?

I feel that I have earned the lands, that this was an inevitibility that just took a few turns less than planned. Maybe he would've found an answer to the skel spam, but the AI wouldn't have, and his position wasn't exactly a great one to get a sub into. You see, his giants never retreated, N9 bless with beserk ftl, so when he lost it hurt his pocket bad. Giants aren't cheap. And by the time I got to his jarl squad leader he was already at 100+ fatigue from casting his own skels(trying to match my many sauromancers with his one jarl wouldn't work). An easy kill for sure.

As for being left with a sour taste in regards to MP play, well what are you going to do? Make sure everyone is equal in skill? I'm the same newbie he is, just that I happened to have a good answer to his poorly chosen bless and battle plans, and beat him into submission. I can't apologize for this. Please remember this, He did not kill ONE of my casters when he was controlling his army while he lost 1000's of gold worth of giants. It's not as if he was effective when he was playing.

However if there is something that you other players feel that I did wrong, I am open to solutions. As for finding a sub, well I own all his lands save 2, his capitol is under siege and with a presumably superior force than his researchers(time will tell).

I will admit fault in not tipping Edi off to turn him to AI 2 turns ago, but what kind of jerk would I have been if he came back wanting to put up a final struggle(who knows maybe he wants to still, one last chance to bloody my nose. I hope he does.)

Re: Regarding Niefelheim
 

Well, I haven't checked the game today to count Niefel provinces or army strength, but I'll take your word that it's too late to do anything with Niefel. I hereby take back my request for delay, subhunt, or AI.

I also wasn't accusing you of doing anything wrong. I was accusing Niefel (unless of course, he actually has a valid reason). I have no complaints of you beating him over the head with a superior strategy and his losing multiple times with poor execution of his own, I only complain that he staled for 4 turns, and in such a manner, proved less of a challenge than an AI. This is even more significant of a matter in a small 8 player game.

The territory is of course, rightfully yours, no one disputes this (though of course, that will likely change in game later, heh). You have done nothing wrong as far as I can see.

Keep in mind much of what I said earlier, and much of what I continue to state, is not directed at C'tis, or even Niefel directly, but is just in general, my opinion.

The responsibility to play out your game if able, or to find a sub or go AI if unable, is the responsibility of the player in question. While playing a MP game is hardly a commitment of any gravity, it's still not something to be dismissed with the wave of a hand. This is what leaves me the sour taste.

I am of the opinion, that the best games, are games that are also fun to lose. Dominions is one good example. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Regarding Niefelheim
 

Ya, maybe I overreacted http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Anyway I will try to submit Friday after work, after that I will be gone until sunday evening. Probably midnite monday GMT. If we can delay hosting until then I'd much appreciate it.

Edit: to clarify, I should be able to submit turn 27 before I leave. 28 is the one i'll need an extension on.

Re: Regarding Niefelheim
 

This other game I'm playing - Figment (you may want to read the thread, it became very interesting) is hosted on Velusions server which shows whether the player stalled last turn, so everybody has that information. And if anybody stalls for two turns he is turned to AI. I think that is fair.

Carkaton, you exploited the stalling of niefel to take his lands easier than you should probably have. While I don't judge as I would've probably done the same, now that it is discovered that niefel stalled for four turns, I would like to see it turned to AI. As you said yourself, the AI will surely not be a better solution that the player you outsmarted, but is certainly better than nothing. And if you would've taken his lands as easily with him playing his turns, you certainly wouldn't object fighting the AI.

So, Edi, I ask you to turn niefel to AI.

Edit: About delaying the hosting - it's fine by me.

Re: Regarding Niefelheim
 

Agreed, Niefel should be turned to AI. I should have said something sooner I admit, and expect diplomatic reprecussions. However I will say that at this point, the AI may make it easier for me than no action at all. As I said, his capitol is under siege now. An AI will be more likely to try to break the siege where if no one is playing I will have to storm the castle, which is more difficult. It makes no real difference to me though.

BTW, I didn't mean to make it sound like I outsmarted him, just that our army makeups favored me. While I did set up one trap initially, it just happened that giants have no real killing power against cold resistant undead.

With the bless he had, I don't know if he could have made an effective counter or not. E9 N4-6 would have made his jarls unkillable by the spam and his giants much more difficult, but with no reinvigoration they'd just get wore out.

Re: Regarding Niefelheim
 

Sorry I didn't see this before now. I've had a couple of days of rather hectic schedule and not been on the forum much. I'll turn him AI, not that it's going to do any good at this point, since his only remaining province is being besieged by C'tis.

I request that anyone in danger of staling more than 1 turn make sure they notify us in this thread or send me a PM. That way I can delay hosting. What especially annoys me about this particular instance is that if I had known he was staling, I'd have grabbed two or three provinces off my northern border to add to my holdings. I certainly had enough troops for it. And because of that, I lost out big in terms of future potential, resources and strategic flexibility.

EDIT: By just going stale for several turns in a row, he actually screwed up my game much worse than he otherwise would have. From the looks of it, I'm soon going to be in the unenviable position of playing client state to either C'tis or Abysia before getting pasted. Even if he'd fought to he bitter end and I'd have joined in on the looting, I could have done that. But I just respected the NAP we had and got screwed because of that. Thanks a lot to Niefelheim indeed! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Re: Regarding Niefelheim
 

Actually, turns out I can't turn a player AI. I'd need to contact Llamabeast and have him do it, but at his point it makes no difference. So let him stale. Just one province left anyway.

Re: Regarding Niefelheim
 

Just so everyone knows, you can all see a table of who's staled and when, although I admit it's slightly hidden. Go to the LeafNosedBat page (on www.llamaserver.net), click on "Admin options", and then on "Show staling record".

Re: Regarding Niefelheim
 

I admit, I'm pretty amazed I survived longer than Niefelheim.

Long-term outlook is bleak for me right now. Abysia just seems to be waiting for my ultimate collapse to snap up the rest of my territory, while in the meantime just keeping me around to make sure Lanka doesn't become too big a threat. (And, while I'm at war with Lanka, my threat to him is basically nil.)

I propose a 3-way truce between Tie'n Ch'i, Lanka, and Kailasa to last at least the next 10 turns to give us the opportunity to get our ducks in a row and confront other threats while we still have the chance. The fighting so far has been indecisive, and we could either continue to drag things out while certain other countries continue to surpass us further, or we can negotiate a settlement that, though unpalatable, best preserves our chances of ultimate victory in the game.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Stalling last turn was purely accidental, I thought I had on more time.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

It seems to host every night around midnight (GMT+2), give or take an hour.

Pipe up if you want the hosting interval increased. I've managed not to stale a single turn yet, but it's been close a couple of times.

In other news, Ulm is in the market for Astral gems in return for forged items or gems of other types. Up to 20 Fire gems would also be welcome in return for forged items or one on one trade of other gem types. Will also trade for an AMA and a Starshine Skullcap.

Any interest? Send counteroffers by PM.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

If people are having trouble getting their turns in, maybe we should switch to 48h intervals. It's way past turn 24 anyway.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

i've got no problem with 48 hour intervals. Although we really need to get niefel set to AI, Obviously I haven't breached his fort yet, and it might not happen in the next turn or two even.

Edi I've got no problem with you changing his email to your own and setting him to AI manually. Your standing on this board would indicate that you wouldn't raid his gem stash, and any intelligence on me you would gain is really inconsequential to me.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I'll set him to my own email and turn him AI. That's a good idea.

And no, tempting as it might be, I wouldn't raid his gems. Have enough of what he would have found anyway. Like I said, I'm in the market for astral and fire.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Niefelheim has been set to AI. What a goddamn sore loser, he could have put up a real fight if he had bothered.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Thanks Edi. That will likely quicken the game hosting to something more like 20 hour turns instead of 24.

As for the 48h clock, even though I like to really take my time with my turns and doublecheck to make sure I miss nothing, I'm against it for the time being. If I stale, I stale, but it keeps a good pace, and the entertainment high. Perhaps after one or two more players bow out.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Really? That doesn't bode well for me then.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

If he had bothered to play, that is. Not so good anymore.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

The internet in my apartment is dead and won't be restored until Wednesday. As much as I would like to soldier on and fight the good fight, it's probably just easier to set me to AI.

Thanks everyone for a good game!

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Take care.

Thanks for playing out a bad position for a long time.

Good luck in your future games.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Thanks for letting me know. I'll see if I can set you to AI before the game hosts. Not a lot of time left.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Managed to set you to AI, so TC isn't staling turn 36. Good thing too.

In all honesty, I must apologize for unilaterally postponing the game hosting for two hours, but I had to in order to prevent a stale turn. It was a long day today. But if not for that, TC would have staled too.

I'll set hosting interval to 48 hours now, so you have two days to do the next turn. Quickhosting is still on, so as soon as everyone is done, it'll host again.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Edi, why didn't you prolong the turn a little and offer somebody to step in for tien chi. How unthoughtful of you.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I wouldn't be so quick to blame Edi, but if you insist... I'd love to hear who you think would want to play a position like T'ien Ch'i's, with 5 provinces, a meager army, and no chance of winning.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I would if I weren't in the game already. I'm just saying that before turning to AI, he could have tried to find a sub. Maybe somebody would answer. If not, he could always turn tien chi to AI a few hours later.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I suppose I could have tried to find a sub, but to be realistic, there was little that could have been done by a sub. During the turn that I turned TC to AI, Lanka for all intents and purposes destroyed his largest army. He's surrounded by Abysia, Lanka and maybe even some Kailasa provinces and there is simply no way to come back from the position he is in. Or to even prolong things.

There is also the fact that for all intents and purposes, this is my first MP game. I took part in two others two years ago, one a very shortlived one and the other a longer-running one that was completely ruined by the strongest player just vanishing without turning AI or leaving any word. This is certainly the first game I've been in charge of, so to speak.

So apologies if the decision to turn TC to AI was a bit rash, but I honestly did not think of postponing the hosting of turn 36 further. I'd just come home after a 14 hour day and did my turn and the other alterations as the last thing before going to bed.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Never mind. It would only delay things for a couple of turns.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Edi's right, I can't believe anyone would want to sub for me in that position. And I haven't played that many MP games, but it seems to take a couple days to find a sub for a player who is in a GOOD position. All that's left now is for the capital research mages to spam magic (research being the only category I'm not at or near the bottom) and hope for the best. I knew things would end badly for me soon when my push into Lanka territory failed; besides, even if it had succeeded, I would only have war with a much more powerful Abysia to look forward to.

At least I'm doing better in my other games. GG everyone.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Your AI got an annoying global cast(wrath of god) that killed some of my guys if that makes you feel better http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I can't even see his territory without scouts and I'm getting hit by [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif[/img] [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Lightning.gif[/img]

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

TC knows how to say adieu with class.

It's certainly a painful global and it likely affects me a lot more than the rest of you... I'm doing my best to kill the caster but that may still be a turn or two away.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Man, I wish I would have thought of casting Wrath of God...I tend to shy away from globals in MP just because some of them seem to make people very angry at you (Wrath of God, Forge of the Ancients)...

Almost certainly it was cast by the pretender, though.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Four mages killed just the last turn, 1 diseased through damage-caused affliction and three turns left to live, two more suffering from afflictions and my mage recruitment standing still because the new bodies just replace the ones that died. And if my special guys start dropping off, that'll be a whole different kind of pain on top of it...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/evil.gif

Thank Shardoz (i.e. me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif) for cheap lightning negators...

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I claim all Lankan territories and will consider it a direct declaration of war should anybody try to take a province or two while I'm destroying their army.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

It seems I am having trouble with the llamaserver, or my email host. My turns aren't getting through. I'm not quite sure what the problem is exactly, but now I'm staling in two games. If I won't be able to resolve this somehow, I'm going to have to ask for a sub.

This is extra unfortunate for me, since I'm doing quite well in my opinion, and was having a lot of fun with this game.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

That sucks. Can you use a different email host? I can easily change your email if that's the case.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Why don't you send your turn to Edi (because he's the admin) and he can try to send it to Llamaserver. Or someone else who is not participating in the game if you don't trust Edi.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Alright, I can try a different email host or I can send it to Edi. What do you suggest?

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Well the simplest would be to try a different host. You can just open a web mail somewhere. But still I think Edi needs to set somewhere that this will be your new address. Maybe you can do it yourself - take a look at admin options.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

I seem to be receiving email just fine, so I suppose I don't have to get a new email addy set. I hope it accepts it from a different address normally.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

Well, that worked. And I received the new turn in my original email box.

I guess that's what you get with free mail hosting.

Re: LeafNosedBat- EA game for new players
 

War with C'tis and thus begins the fall of Ulm it seems. I did NOT like how that battle turned out...