Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Ooh, cannibals. Does that offset starvation by killing off troops?

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

It is mainly the ancient rephaim of the EA that devour their lesser kin.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Ahmm, no hope then from new nations. An LA nation that would be designed specifically to counter (thematically) LA Ermor and R'lyeh would be nice.

I agree about Arco, but my point was about the general tendency of LA nations - more human and more death magic.

About the next point I want to tread carefully since I don't want to start a religious related argument, however I must stay I strongly object to the statement "Not to mention that Old Testaments God is not a benevolent one". Not religious myself but I have studied enough to know that Judaism doesn't agree with that view. True, there were strange factions coming out of Judaism with similar views but never the main stream. I'm not familiar enough with Islam and Christianity but AFAIK they more or less share Judaism's view about God's benevolence.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Believers are entitled to their opinion, of course, but I'm entitled to mine. Basically, 'serve me properly OR ELSE!' isnt what I expect to hear from a benevolent deity. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
But thats off topic, of course. And, well, its a good thing that death magic is popular during the LA, since dust to dust is a good counter to Ermor amongst other things.
For example, you can say that LA Jotunheim is designed to beat Ermor. It has nature (to feed starving armies and for eagles eyes), death (dust to dust) and astral (solar rays) against Ermor. Surprisingly effective.
And Rlyeh... I think that only a coalition can stop Rlyeh. Not kill it, but stalemate till its too late. You cant even hit Rlyeh underwater: thugs/SC will be paralyzed and killed, armies will be hit by Dreams of Rlyeh and drown as commander with breathgiving artifact is assassinated. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Yes, lets keep beliefs out of it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Your point about LA Jotun is true from practical standpoint not from thematical one. Jotun culture and background has nothing pious or anti ermor about it. I would expect an anti-ermor nation to be along the lines of MA Marignon or Pythium, only in LA so some adaption is required.

As for LA R'lyeh, what's wrong with high MR thugs/SCs with starshine cup and amulet of antimagic? - they will be pretty hard to paralyze/kill. As for dreams, doesn't high MR and bodyguards help?

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Sounds a bit like Ulm Reborn. They have specifically anti undead/demon units, high level priests and their own freespawn. Can't get much more anti ermor than that.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

With MR thugs wrong thing is, MR wont help. In one of our current games, Jotunheim lost a God with MR 30+, because with many recruitable and, occasionally, freespawn paralyzers you are bound to lose at least one roll.
Dreams - well, you will probably have -1 to -2 MR thanks to dominion (I dont believe in Rlyeh without magic scale), and caster is guaranteed to have at least +3 to penetration. With halved stats and MR, your commander cant do much against the following soul slay / enslave soul (with the same +3 to penetration)

Regarding anti-Ermor, I am fighting Rlyeh right now as Bogarus, and it feels great. I lack nature (or, rather, I've got nature just recently), so my troops starve, but otherwise its just what you are looking for. The whole 'Bogarus' name means 'God's Rus' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif, quite a religious country. Tainted with a blood cult, but still pious. Not peoples fault their new God has seen the worth in Blood and sent some FFA to look for virgins in several conquered provinces... Field army, simple peasants and city dwellers drafted into militia to fight for their homeland, heavy cavalry with weapons of honest sharp steel, and holy birds with voices of saints - what more can you ask for? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
Since I pretty much backstabbed Ermor who was busy killing Utgard, I'm about to finish him off soon, so this story even has a happy end. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

New developmnet. I've read more on Ugaritic religion found great inspiration for MA Ashdod. Especially concerning the banquet for the deified dead.

While LA Gath and EA Hinnom have blood magic, MA Ashdod will have death instead. The repahim are strongly connected with the dead in the Ugaritic texts, even more so than in biblical and talmudic traditions.

Cultural inspiration:
Hinnom - antediluvian (biblical myth), a mesopotamian touch, a bit of canaanites.
Ashdod - canaanite and philistine, mosaic time
Gath - philistine and israelite of the time of the temple

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

My dreams of a biblical Israeli nation have been shattered http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Lol

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Great work Kristoffer, keep it up! I will call of the assassins (for now). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Gath niceified. Yeddeoni take a step back for the Abba.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

a little off topic, but did you get your inspiration for Hidden in Snow from The Malazan Book of the Fallen series? They are almost perfect fits for one of the major factions.

VVVV- Indeed it would!

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

I did http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

There was some talk about a Malazan mod in a thread somewhere, including how to use the unfrozen, how to make the empire and about ascendants as pretenders. It was quite a while ago, so I believe the project died. But it would be quite fun to play.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Been trying out LA Gath a bit. Added a horn blower.

Currently unsure if the Gittites (smaller giants) should be home only. That would make them rare, since most would probably recruit the sacred Gibborim instead.
Since the giants are supposed to live only in Gath it annoys me a bit. If you don't go for a bless strategy it is possible that you recruit Gittites instead of Gibborim, but I find it a bit unlikely. If the Gittites are made everywhere they might dominate the human tribes and you won't se any of these instead.

Anyway, here is a screen.


http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...90768-gath.jpg

Each human tribe has slightly different attributes and abilities.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

I'm not sure if you are talking about troops or mages, but I'm quite sure the archers are going to get used regardless of what giants are available. They might replace the HI though (I doubt the LI would get a lot of use regardless). As for the human mages, even just very slightly different magic should give them a niche.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

The troops, but I think the problem is less than I first thought. I think things are turning out as I like.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

I had a silly idea. If forts can act like sites, then the fort types for Gath in could allow Gittite recruitables in some terrain types and not others. Something like a 'Gittite Fortress' in mountain terrain that gives recruitable Gittites but costs more than a plains fort.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Why not a shofar blower (or something similar) with a siege bonus?

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

They have a siege bonus in the early era, when they are giants and more magical. Since the rams-horn is small, I went for an anachronistic and culturally misplaced, but nice looking, brass horn instead.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Something else I was curious about, KO. While each nation's progression seems correct in time, there is absolutely no matching between nations and where they occurred in history. Gath is the time of the temple, so... before the Exile? If so, that's certainly in the pre-Christian era. This matches, if anything, to other nations' Early Era. The worst 'offender' in my opinion is Marignon vs. Ermor. MA Marignon is primed to take out LA Ermor, which they can't do short of modding.

What is your position on this?

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Pretty much what Edi has said in some threads. WIth the change from dom2 themes into dom3 eras some inconsistencies have emerged.

I would like to make some changes, but it would probably affect both ongoing games as well as general setup, balance and the manual.

So currently nations are consistent only regarding to themselves. At times I dream of making more eras, but that would probably cause a lot more problems than it would solve.

LA ermor should be in the MA and both MA ULM and Marignon should be results of Ermors fall. Edis suggestion with the MA Ermor made LA might work with some changes. This is an idea I'm quite fond, but I'm not sure if a fix would be good. A problem might be the troops predating the ashen empire that is not in the EA Ermor (censors etc). If there was more eras I could have the current MA Ermor with its censors before ashen and keep ashen at the time of Marignon.

As you see I'm not entirely satisfied with the overall historical consistency http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

All three (Hinnom, Ashdod, Gath) are predating Christianity, and should be in Mythical and early eras if placed in real world history.

I'm starting to think that a reason for inconsistencies and stuff as well as SP gripes, is the lack of scenarios. If there was a premade map with a background story, a fully developed ermor and a couple of fringe states available for the new player, or another map where ermor just had fallen with Marignon and Ulm fighting to stall the dead, SP could be more fun and probably more challenging.

I wonder why there are so few scenarios out there. Probably because we didn't include any of our own in dom3.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Kristoffer O:

So another thing just moved to Dominions 4 to-do list? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And there are no scenarios cause AI sucks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif And people do not feel like making beautiful map with a lot of settings to see stupid AI ruin it. And map editor is not extremely user-friendly either.

P.S. When it comes to thematic things - why can you cast MAelstrom on land? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Good question.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

It would be possible to make such a scenario, if one modded a new MA nation and copy-pasted LA Ermor into it, then did a scenario using this, Ulm and Marignon. This would really be interesting only for SP I believe, as playing MA Ulm against Ermor Ashen empire sounds like suicide to me.

"Let's slaughter the mass of walking dead with out fast firing arbalests!"

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

In all of my experience with 4X games, I've never found a scenario that was as interesting to play as the standard buildup from a single starting position.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

That's not really how it works, but the truth is even easier. The mod would only need these commands:

#modname "LA Ermor in MA"
#domversion 3.15
#description "This mod adds LA ermor to the middle era."
#icon "modbannerlinkhere.tga"
#version 1.0
#selectnation 50
#era 2
#end
#selectnation 28
#era 0
#end

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Ophan and Tetramorph done.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Wow!

Any chance for a screenshot? - *pls*

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

The please is seconded. Curious about what you did with the Ophanim.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

I made something with a bit more story behind it once and it didn't find much takers.. since then I quit modding

my gang-wars map was really nice IMHO, it wasn't finished yet but the idea rocked..

Anyone interested is welcome to play it.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Hmm. Dominions players are reasonably likely to enjoy the game because it is historically and culturally interesting, and because of the premise about the quest for godhood. In that light, gang-wars are likely to be less popular. Not knocing the idea, but not really surprised it wasn't that downloaded

on inconsistencies related to Ermor in late era
 

While I like late Pythium enough, what I hate is that they are supposed to take this shape after fighting off Ermorian attacks - and at the same time they became WORSE against undead! LA Marignon has no such nonsensuality - its summoned devils are pretty useful against undead...
OT question: why Eriu doesn't have chariots?? Balance issues?

Re: on inconsistencies related to Ermor in late er
 

> OT question: why Eriu doesn't have chariots?? Balance issues?

Probably an omission. Cu Chulainn has one though.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Ophanim! http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...38-ophanim.jpg

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Gods, Kritoffer! You sure know how to make a guy drool. And it even doesn't include any beautiful chicks...

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

And the wheels from the sky keep on burnin'...

Not familiar at all with the lore, so searching turned up
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophanim

Interesting.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Kewl http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

So dominions lore now includes the following from catholic angelic hierarchy (De Coelesti Hierarchia ), the Seraphim, Cherubim, Ophanim (aka Thrones), Virtue, Archangels and angels
Missine Dominations, Powers and Principalities.

Since I really like angelic related myths I'm quite content http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

We need Nephesch Ha-Messiah http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

I intend to use the jewish angelology and the hiearchy of maimonides. I do like the sound of Ophanim better than gagallin though. Also the Zohar and book of Enoch is inconsistent enough to give me some freedom http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

You truly are a geek among geeks, sir. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Pleased to hear http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Great stuff KO. Always cool to have some unorthdox stuff like that.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

I love that graphic. I love this game. Nice work!

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

How does a general convince his soldiers to attack balls of burning wings and wheels, I wonder?
I mean it's not like trolls or dragons where there's a discernible anatomy and the majority of their makeup isn't FIRE.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Probably the majority of the troops are just not very imaginative; dey go out and dey do der jobs, ay?

"Boss sez break dat thing, use yer arrers and yer sords and what not boyz!"

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Should be useful for surprise attacks. I mean, even if a scout sees them flying overhead, who's going to believe reports of flaming, flying, many-eyed wheels?

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

For some reason, I don't know, just a weird feeling, I don't think they'll be Stealth +25.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

Nonsense! It could fly really high and shadow the sun! After a certain altitude it would be completely indistinguishable.

Re: Gath, dev diary or something
 

How do you shadow the sun? Where you need to be depends on who's looking, so so long as there are a couple of widely spaced people on the ground it's impossible.